Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[atxcyclist]

1 minute ago, LinusAuctionTips said:

Contracts are modified all time.

I doubt a 50% owner in a company would be presented the requirement to sign that agreement. I don’t think they would either.

[HiTechLowSpec]

48 minutes ago, ZombieMan762 said:

 

Exactly. Conflict of interest does not require bias to have already happened. Conflict of interest is the POSSIBILITY of bias. Bias comes AFTER the conflict of interest is established. 

Yet people can have biases without even a requirement for interest, conflicted or otherwise. People can have no interest in an outcome, but still have their own bias. Everyone has biases. If they say they're "totally unbiased", they're either lying or blinded to them.

 

The problem with conflict of interest, is that when it can be assumed that someone has one through business dealings, there is an appearance of bias. It doesn't matter if the bias is real or not. Perception becomes reality. The same could be said for GN and their advertising spots.

 

If you wanted to put your money where your mouth is, you wouldn't take money for any products that you have any relationship with. The problem with that, is that you would need to be independently wealthy. Or living off the land and providing for your own survival. Probably wouldn't have time to make YouTube videos though.

[ReallyThough]

9 minutes ago, Silviecat44 said:

Never said they had. we don't assume Apple has $3 trillion dollars

Don't need to, they're publicly traded and you can see their "cash on hand" in their quarterly reports.

[coopa]

4 minutes ago, e22big said:

 (that and the Billet Lab said it would work on a 4090, just don;t know how well.) 

 Here is what Linus said on the billet monoblock:
"Like it's a cool product. But it's a bad product."

That's explicit from the WAN Show, timestamping it from the GN video (29m48s, if it decides to embed instead):
https://youtu.be/FGW3TPytTjc?t=1788

 

Billet said they had no guarantees on how it would perform on a 4090 and that it was designed to work on a 3090 Ti. 
LMG testing on a 4090, positioning that the product was bad, and then refusing to re-test after Billet was able to get a hold of a 4090, discuss how it was going to perform like trash on a 4090 because of the design changes (again, this monoblock was never designed to work on a 4090) and it had a massive 1 millimeter gap that would kill cooling performance, and LMG standing by the results is unconscionable on LMG's part.

 

 LMG tested a product incorrectly and stood by it. Period. There's no excusing them testing a product wrong when the manufacturer sent a GPU specific monoblock AND the required GPU to test it with. LMG apparently used or misplaced the 3090 Ti that Billet sent (apparently misplaced, because as of this time LMG STILL hasn't located it), and then tested the monoblock with the wrong GPU.

[ZombieMan762]

8 minutes ago, e22big said:

You are assuming that Adam didn't read the instruction already

 

Actually I've just watched the video again, and you know what? Linus never have said that it was a bad product even, he only said that the installation process is so complex that unless you are an expert system integrator, there's no way you would be able to pull this sort of thing off (and the complicated part wasn't even the GPU, it's the CPU and the motherboard that they have to laser cut to make it fit (that and the Billet Lab said it would work on a 4090, just don;t know how well.) 

 

And you know what - they did retest it and publish the fixed result in the pinned comment. 

 

"Hey! After a bit of tinkering post-video we saw improved thermals with the Monoblock. Running Cinebench and MSI Afterburner for 30 minutes we saw temps peak at CPU: 85 C on the 12900KS GPU Hotspot: 87 C on 4090. (remember this is the without using the proper kit for the 4090) What do you think about this MonoBlock? Let us know below! Check out the Billet Labs MonoBlock: https://lmg.gg/sBMz8 Buy an Intel Core i9-12900KS CPU: https://geni.us/9rg0Jeh Buy Crucial Ballistix MAX RGB 4000MHz CL18 2x8GB DDR4 RAM: https://geni.us/IDVUvs7 Buy an EK-CoolStream Classic PE 240 Radiator: https://geni.us/ZQZfllT Buy a Cooler Master V1100 SFX 80+ Platinum PSU: https://geni.us/tBS8"

 

 

 

 

Literally none of that matters when when Billet Labs sent a 3090ti they LOST and was supposed to go along with the waterblock. 

 

And Billet Labs having a pinned comment that LTT 'hearted' that said the 4090 has a 1mm gap after they actually looked into it. 

 

And people keeping offering up these WEAK excuses after Linus has TRIPLED down on not giving a F if they had the right GPU or not. 

[UTiii]

Why has Stalker Steve been cataloging any typos or mistakes LTT have made over the last few months?

 

Don’t you find it odd the benevolent stalker Steve has been cataloging typos / mistakes like having the incorrect cache etc going back months! 
 

this dude has been sat there for months sweating profusely watching LTT videos on repeat highlighting any mistakes.

 

don’t y’all find that a bit weird from Steve the snake?

 

and then when he has something “juicy” releases his vid. And the something juicy could have been cleared up with a phone call given Linus probably didn’t even know about it.

[McCarthy]

This topic is exhausted to be honest.

 

I'm sure Linus got the wink either way and will improve on things, and GN said he won't keep responding.

 

Billet got a ton of feedback from potential future customers due to GN.

 

At this point this thread just funnels into useless drama. Time to move on.

 

 

[IndustrialBananaBread]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

Where's this from?

 

[Empyreal]

Well, at least Linus still have $500 budget to create a public apology video if he wants to.

[Saeumii]

35 minutes ago, K007 said:

Sorry but that's not how the world revolves. You can't play the blind/deaf argument. 
The heads of the company are responsible for what the people below do.
The problem was the response provided by Linus off loaded the blame and added comments like "We didn't sell it, we auctioned it".
The right approach here and the response would be to take full responsibility, acknowledge the issue, help resolve the issue and for a fair assessment, redo the review of the video and then provide the right feedback.

1. the heads of company don't have complete control over what the people below do. mistakes happen, and messages get mixed up

2. who'd it offload the blame to? the only comment he made about the auction in his forum post says "due to a miscommunication". he doesn't explicitly state "it's my fault, and i should've been more vigilant", but it's not like he says "I had nothing to do with this".

3. the video would not be a "review". linus made it clear that his conclusion on the video was derived from the fact that the waterblock was not a good value unless it broke the laws of physics; you can get equally performant waterblocks for a fraction of the price. now if it was made purely for entertainment and to watch the waterblock go brrr, he'd probably consider it further

[TechDeckCAD]

11 minutes ago, e22big said:

(that and the Billet Lab said it would work on a 4090, just don;t know how well.) 

Once again, this is objectively wrong to the point of being disingenuous. I have to wonder if people are reading what Billet Labs said or if they're just being obtuse and making erroneous assumptions based on the review itself.

 

There's a gigantic difference between saying "it works on 4090" vs. (the actual real words) "it might work on a 4090, we haven't tested it ourselves, but you are welcome to try it."

 

 

 

 

[coopa]

Just now, McCarthy said:

At this point this thread just funnels into useless drama. Time to move on.

I disagree and quite frankly I don't think your max font size bold comment is going to deter anyone here from discussing this for as long as they want to...

[Voyajer]

4 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Where's this from?

 

[Silviecat44]

4 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Where's this from?

looks like reddit

[MaxIsJoe]

I think Linus's response to this issue highlights the "rushing things out the door" problem that he was criticized for.

Linus, as a big influencer on the internet, should have known that using any words that put your community on the defense would always 100% backfire on you, especially when you're already being painted as the wrong doer here. You could have worked a bit more on a response that is triple checked by other people to make sure you get your message across without angering more people, but it seems like you've decided yet again to push a response quickly without any confirmation from other people that this is a good idea.

Linus needs to listen to his employees when they said they wanted to have more time to do stuff, and Linus as a person also needs to work on "slowing down" while asking others to make sure that he gets his message and goals across appropriately, especially when communicating in scenarios like these from now on.

 

I'm still on Linus's side, as I find Gamer Nexus's exposé very targeted and drama driven. As Linus mentioned before, They had every opportunity to go to them directly and voice their concerns and maybe even offer help on updating their testing standards to avoid this whole issue; but they have chosen not to, and instead did what is the equivalent of a hit piece on LTT and utilized that power of internet mobs to try and force a change without thinking too much about the consequences of it.

However, I don't see myself aligning on LTT's side anymore if they continue doing the same mistakes that were outlined by Gamer Nexus a couple of months into the future. You're given a chance to improve, and you should utilize it.

 

There's a reason why a lot of people heavily dislike companies when they push rushed products, nickle and dime, and/or refuse to uphold a quality standard. LTT is not safe from this either, a video is a product, and it will be review bombed (regardless of who worked on it) if the people consuming it have negative perception of it and its creators. Linus shouldn't be saying that he wants to save $500 to re-do a test like some triple A developer trying to impress shareholders who are only interested in profits, Linus should actively celebrate and gloat that he burns money to produce the best content out there.

Once you put yourself in a position that makes you look like you only care about money when your business is no longer in a garage and is spread across multiple buildings and has over 100+ Employees, any discussions of money is always going to be taken as representative of what your business is like and are you interested in just profits and saving productions costs or producing high quality products.

 

I hope Linus learns from this whole problem, even if he's not going to directly address it in public anymore.

[RandomDude843]

1 minute ago, ReallyThough said:

I've been reading and watching and waiting to make a post, first one here.

As much as I agree that the things brought up in Gamer's Nexus video have merit and bear discussion, I have to question Steve's timing and the way he produced this video.

It seems, on the surface, to be a fact based, unbiased look at LMG's recent video inaccuracies and issues with ethics etc, after repeated viewings and reading up, I have come to my own conclusion that Steve himself has clear bias against the new direction of LMG.

Also, I have to question Steve's integrity here.

 

Hear me out; for the longest time (years and years), LMG and GN have existed in parallel. LTT would be fast and entertaining with (often) the bare minimum of measurements to reach a conclusion.

While Gamer's Nexus has always been the one to go WAY deeper, and measure everything, and compare everything.

 

Now, with LTT labs, LMG will be crossing right into Steve's domain and right over him. LMG has proclaimed loudly for a long time now, that when the labs is in full swing, the amount of data that's going to be gathered will make Labs the #1 stop for anything. This is what Steve and his team have been doing.

 

Now Steve recently revealed a SIGNIFICANT investment of over 1/4 of a million dollars into an anechoic chamber. LTT Labs has one.

Steve has talked about all the things he's going to be able to test with even more accuracy. Same as LTT Labs.

Linus has not been shy about talking about how they plan on testing everything, headphones, microphones, cellphones, wifi devices etc. And with all the testing hardware that LMG is investing, what is there left for GN to do but mirror the results of a much larger channel?

 

That's why, for me, the GN video seems more like a hit piece, to sow FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt) in the efficacy of the LTT labs.

He seems to be saying; look at all the mistakes they're making, all the corrections, all the wrong conclusions that contradict the data etc. We (Gamer's Nexus) won't make those same mistakes.

And the fact that instead of contacting Linus directly and just asking straight up "WTF bro? I'm hearing that you sold a prototype instead of returning it, wtf happened?", he instead skips that part, because he knows that if he makes it look like something nefarious then it will make his point seem more apt.

 

That's a huge conflict of interest right there, and one I can't shake. And really, this feels like Steve's own "Trust me bro!" moment, where if he had done this in a more unbiased way, I might tend to just trust him.

 

 

The other thing, I have a real problem with all the people posting here that LMG has somehow potentially destroyed a small start up, because they didn't get their prototype back.

Ok, what if LTT HAD sent it back and it got lost in shipping? What then? What if it got destroyed in shipping there or back? What if Linus himself dropped it and wrecked it to the point of not being usable?

Billet Labs would have already considered these as a possibility and sent it anyways. The idea that this one prototype was SO important to the success of their company that they would EVER let it out of their hands is preposterous.

 

 

Also, you don't make things from billet by hand, you CNC it, using some type of CAD. Which means, they still have those computer designs and can make another one, barring cost and time. And since Time=Money, LTT can reimburse them for both of those things and they can make another one.

 

My only real issue here is the way Linus ALWAYS responds to these things in a defensive, dismissive way. And it always seems to come off as a bit douchy.

It's not productive and I wish he had a PR coach like Luke who he would talk to first before posting here.

 

The last thing I really don't have an issue with is Linus's personal investment in Framework. I have seen 0 evidence of bias in any of their reviews.

They seem to be reviewing/unboxing etc laptops the same as they have always been. So a big nothing burger there.

 

Thanks for reading if you got all the way through. I'm sure a lot of this will seem to be winding and not structured well, but it's really just flying off the top of my head as I type it.

Steve is doing this to make sure we get correct information and set the standards higher. Sure it may affect them but imagine a world where tech reviewers are striving to give the best data for us, the consumers. I wanna live in that world.

LTT has been complacent thinking an asterisk or a pinned comment, ignoring the manual and auctioning a prototype is ok. That Janky/unorganized video where they “wing it” is alright. The thousands of comments here say otherwise.

[Drazil100]

11 minutes ago, ReallyThough said:

I've been reading and watching and waiting to make a post, first one here.

As much as I agree that the things brought up in Gamer's Nexus video have merit and bear discussion, I have to question Steve's timing and the way he produced this video.

It seems, on the surface, to be a fact based, unbiased look at LMG's recent video inaccuracies and issues with ethics etc, after repeated viewings and reading up, I have come to my own conclusion that Steve himself has clear bias against the new direction of LMG.

Also, I have to question Steve's integrity here.

 

Hear me out; for the longest time (years and years), LMG and GN have existed in parallel. LTT would be fast and entertaining with (often) the bare minimum of measurements to reach a conclusion.

While Gamer's Nexus has always been the one to go WAY deeper, and measure everything, and compare everything.

 

Now, with LTT labs, LMG will be crossing right into Steve's domain and right over him. LMG has proclaimed loudly for a long time now, that when the labs is in full swing, the amount of data that's going to be gathered will make Labs the #1 stop for anything. This is what Steve and his team have been doing.

 

Now Steve recently revealed a SIGNIFICANT investment of over 1/4 of a million dollars into an anechoic chamber. LTT Labs has one.

Steve has talked about all the things he's going to be able to test with even more accuracy. Same as LTT Labs.

Linus has not been shy about talking about how they plan on testing everything, headphones, microphones, cellphones, wifi devices etc. And with all the testing hardware that LMG is investing, what is there left for GN to do but mirror the results of a much larger channel?

 

That's why, for me, the GN video seems more like a hit piece, to sow FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt) in the efficacy of the LTT labs.

He seems to be saying; look at all the mistakes they're making, all the corrections, all the wrong conclusions that contradict the data etc. We (Gamer's Nexus) won't make those same mistakes.

And the fact that instead of contacting Linus directly and just asking straight up "WTF bro? I'm hearing that you sold a prototype instead of returning it, wtf happened?", he instead skips that part, because he knows that if he makes it look like something nefarious then it will make his point seem more apt.

 

That's a huge conflict of interest right there, and one I can't shake. And really, this feels like Steve's own "Trust me bro!" moment, where if he had done this in a more unbiased way, I might tend to just trust him.

 

 

The other thing, I have a real problem with all the people posting here that LMG has somehow potentially destroyed a small start up, because they didn't get their prototype back.

Ok, what if LTT HAD sent it back and it got lost in shipping? What then? What if it got destroyed in shipping there or back? What if Linus himself dropped it and wrecked it to the point of not being usable?

Billet Labs would have already considered these as a possibility and sent it anyways. The idea that this one prototype was SO important to the success of their company that they would EVER let it out of their hands is preposterous.

 

 

Also, you don't make things from billet by hand, you CNC it, using some type of CAD. Which means, they still have those computer designs and can make another one, barring cost and time. And since Time=Money, LTT can reimburse them for both of those things and they can make another one.

 

My only real issue here is the way Linus ALWAYS responds to these things in a defensive, dismissive way. And it always seems to come off as a bit douchy.

It's not productive and I wish he had a PR coach like Luke who he would talk to first before posting here.

 

The last thing I really don't have an issue with is Linus's personal investment in Framework. I have seen 0 evidence of bias in any of their reviews.

They seem to be reviewing/unboxing etc laptops the same as they have always been. So a big nothing burger there.

 

Thanks for reading if you got all the way through. I'm sure a lot of this will seem to be winding and not structured well, but it's really just flying off the top of my head as I type it.

I really appreciate your well thought out and measured post and your fairly unique opinion in this sea of people repeating the same thing over and over again. It is true that this is something that could be biasing Steve, on the other hand I also think it adds credibility to him. He has been doing deep dives and technical analysis on PC hardware for years. He knows his stuff. He has probably made his fair share of mistakes (I don't know I don't really watch him that much) but he is uniquely qualified to assess the quality of LTT Labs findings and the data presented in their videos.

It is worth keeping in mind that Steve stands to gain a lot for knocking Linus down a peg given that they are both going in the same direction. We don't necessarily have the evidence that this has actually influenced him, but we should be keeping this in mind.

Edit: Also welcome to the forum. It's good to see at least SOME of the new faces here are not here to spout hate and vitriol. More level headed participants is always welcome.

[throwawayManMode]

5 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

This topic is exhausted to be honest.

 

I'm sure Linus got the wink either way and will improve on things, and GN said he won't keep responding.

 

Billet got a ton of feedback from potential future customers due to GN.

 

At this point this thread just funnels into useless drama. Time to move on.

 

 

Set an example for all of us and be the first one to leave

[McCarthy]

2 minutes ago, coopa said:

I disagree and quite frankly I don't think your max font size bold comment is going to deter anyone here from discussing this for as long as they want to...

Well, if you want to keep wasting your time on drama, that's up to you. In my book, drama doesn't create anything of value. No income, no happiness, nothing to be proud of.

[McCarthy]

Just now, throwawayManMode said:

Set an example for all of us and be the first one to leave

Done deal. Last post in this thread.

[Nekosama]

6 minutes ago, UTiii said:

Why has Stalker Steve been cataloging any typos or mistakes LTT have made over the last few months?

 

Don’t you find it odd the benevolent stalker Steve has been cataloging typos / mistakes like having the incorrect cache etc going back months! 
 

this dude has been sat there for months sweating profusely watching LTT videos on repeat highlighting any mistakes.

 

don’t y’all find that a bit weird from Steve the snake?

 

and then when he has something “juicy” releases his vid. And the something juicy could have been cleared up with a phone call given Linus probably didn’t even know about it.

would find this valid if you wasnt just throwing insults in every line. Uncalled for to make a proper and valid argument. Insults are not needed here.

[Pitboy64]

So ... just last week, I pulled the switch and threw $77 Canadian at joining Floatplane for the year, pretty much only for LTT membership, so I could enjoy a better Wan Show chat experience.

... well ... that wasnt such good timing ...
at this moment I donno if I really wanna even watch Wan Show at all.

[HiTechLowSpec]

One thing I haven't seen anyone acknowledge is that Linus is part owner of LMG. The other half of that equation is also the CFO. When you're pointing the finger at Linus about the monetary concerns, that's not the whole of it. The fact that the CFO is also your spouse makes this even trickier to handle.

[CameronP90]

3 minutes ago, Empyreal said:

Well, at least Linus still have $500 budget to create a public apology video if he wants to.

Can probably film it, edit it several times, then have it on that youtube thing about releasing it to the public while having errors and misrepresented facts etc etc and another 20 minutes of a half baked apology and still kick themselves. Is anyone buying into this clown show still?

Side note, anyone wanna bet that BL, gets a new block built, has it tested for whatever GPU and probably never sends it to LTT? Can we do that here?

[coopa]

1 minute ago, McCarthy said:

Well, if you want to keep wasting your time on drama, that's up to you. In my book, drama doesn't create anything of value. No income, no happiness, nothing to be proud of.

While there may be some element of drama, I am hopeful that the dialog continuing will put pressure on Linus and LMG to properly address these concerns rather than dismissing them and refusing to discuss them on the WAN show or further.

I strongly believe that most people are continuing this discussion in the hopes that it makes LMG leadership seriously assess the issues brought up by Steve and to give an honest response.