Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ScoggsUK]

10 minutes ago, aka473 said:

Look. In Linus' original statement he said that "AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype". This statement has a connotation that the said act, being them agreeing to pay Billet Labs and Billet Labs agreeing to that form of compensation, was already done and agreed to by both parties, and that it was completed BEFORE the release of the GN video. However, we know from Billet Lab's own communications that this is patently UNTRUE. Billet Labs was never contacted by LMG about compensation until the GN video was published, and even then Billet Labs THEMSELVES hadn't responded to the email or agreed to the terms set out by LMG in that email. That original statement is at best a misrepresentation of the truth of the situation, and a down right Lie and lie by omission at worst.

The key point being, 'we agreed to compensate'. 

 

I read this as an internal we, as in We LMG have agreed to compensate.

 

Not that Billet labs have reached an agreement. He has not lied over this point.

 

As I stated earlier, he's lied about getting a qoute part yes. But if you want an apology solely from that then good luck to you.

[joaopt]

8 minutes ago, Leksi T said:

If the subs fall, they fall. If LMG loses money, they lose money.  Posting a counter here, where most of us are trying to discuss what this all means, and what we'd like to see LMG do about all this is counterproductive... though I am heavily leaning to using a much stronger word.

 

this is not rocket science, you don't even need a Lab or 120 employees, a PR department, none of that. Apologise properly, make good with Bilet Labs for real, get their prototype back whatever it costs, change the amount of videos they make, change the QC, don't lie, don't deflect, don't gaslith the viewers. Bum done.

 

See i did it for free, that's it @LinusTech

[Lagonas]

1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

Joined 12 minutes ago, screen name is "Retire", signs their one single post here with "in short, get fucked".

 

To anyone complaining that I and other people doubt how constructive the comments of these new joins are, I present to you the comment above.

One comment does not take down the credibility of other new posters.

 

I have seen multiple posters with accounts from 2014 that have been talking complete nosense all day (Legitsu for example), but yet that does not take down your credibility, does it?

[ayysub]

my disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined

[Touch My Hamm]

1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

Joined 12 minutes ago, screen name is "Retire", signs their one single post here with "in short, get fucked".

 

To anyone complaining that I and other people doubt how constructive the comments of these new joins are, I present to you the comment above.

mods need to go through alot of this as alot of the conversation devolved into a yelling match with fanboys on both sides spitting at each other. nobody is changing minds here and I dont think the conversation is going to go anywhere.

 

hard to see as it started out as a company criticism and learning from it devolving into whatever half these conversations have become.

[VisibleXela]

1 minute ago, Lagonas said:

One comment does not take down the credibility of other new posters.

 

I have seen multiple posters with accounts from 2014 that have been talking complete nosense all day (Legitsu for example), but yet that does not take down your credibility, does it?

Nah, nobody who signed up specifically to comment on this thread should be taken seriously. I mean that as a blanket statement, whether you think LMG did nothing wrong or otherwise your opinion should be discounted.

[Prolesious]

22 hours ago, VinLAURiA said:

Is it possible to contact the winner of that auction and ask for it back to return to Billet, while fully reimbursing the buyer for what they paid? I think making an effort to actually procure and return the prototype on top of compensating Billet for what they asked for would be a major show of good faith.

While also using company funds to donate the amount to second life that the winner paid out for winning.  

[Value Village Security]

@LinusTech

As someone who has watched Linus from the NCIX days, this is disappointing. I stopped watching him a few years ago, but I still check in from time to time and honestly, something like this was long overdue.

 

The Billet Labs prototype auction is unacceptable, the fact that Linus only responded to him after GN's video came out while saying that he had an "agreement" with them portraying it like he made it in advance is appalling.

Actions speak louder than words, and there hasn't been much action. We all saw Linus's "response", and while I personally think Linus will most likely continue damaging his brand by handling this the wrong way, I hope he turns it around and does something better. Deflecting this does him no good and as we can all see, makes it worse for him and LMG. I guess we'll see what happens.

[Shatterhand]

15 minutes ago, ScoggsUK said:

I read:

 

As they have agreed internally to compensate and make right Billet Labs.  'We' as internal we or LMG. 

 

Your assigning intention to intentionally misslead. 

 

 

 

 

If it was only internally then it doesn't make sense to use it towards GN and imply that GN purposefully left that information out.

But since it is in the context of shooting at GN it only makes sense to interpret it as if it was agreed with Billet.

[Lagonas]

Just now, VisibleXela said:

Nah, nobody who signed up specifically to comment on this thread should be taken seriously. I mean that as a blanket statement

Pleas elaborate why not?

[Karon]

1 minute ago, PandaSasquatch said:

I'll also point out that the video from GN this morning was clearly monetized.... If there was a conflict of interest requiring him to not monetize yesterday's video, why change did he change his mind about today's video?

Because he's done with Linus and his bullshit reply. Instead of making a sole video reacting to linus' statement he put it into the news recap and called it a day. 

 

No reason not to monetize that video. 

[SimonShipperd]

7 minutes ago, OverjoyedDonut said:

That is pretty weird TBH. Did they halt all testing and development while the product was waiting to be reviewed?

 

LMG should have still sent it back and it was wrong to accidentally sell the prototype, though.

Well, that seems to be the conclusion everybody is making + what Billet posted themselves. And again, I don't want to be victim blaming but sending your only good prototype that you still need for development is just not a smart business descission.

 

Of course it was not correct for LMG to sell it. But I don't understand why everyone is personally blaming Linus for this. The times of him personally being in contact with companies is long gone. Occam's razer suggest that all of this stems from a large break down of communication between LMG management, the staff and Billet. Why would they willingly sell/auction something if each and every one knew they couldn't? What possibly gain could LMG have for this?

[The_Q42]

1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

Joined 12 minutes ago, screen name is "Retire", signs their one single post here with "in short, get fucked".

 

To anyone complaining that I and other people doubt how constructive the comments of these new joins are, I present to you the comment above.

You're not getting it . . . that IS a valid comment (even though it lacks tangible and actionable criticism).  Knowing that your audience is pissed is important, even if people are creating an account to basically say "fuck you" then disappear forever.  I doubt people are taking the time to create 30 logins/email addresses just to post how mad they are, nor do I believe (reading through what I have) there is a coordinated effort to "take down the man," or anything similar.

Even if there are people cranking out 30 logins, they're in the minority, and only a drop in the bucket vs the other discourse here.

 

Also, this is all beside the point that LMG is handling this situation badly.  This worry over disingenuous accounts is not really all that important, and I'm not sure why you're fixated on it. 

[PandaSquawk]

3 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

They had much longer than a single business day to fix this issue they created. Its been weeks, not days. Fact of the matter is they sold something illegally that was not their property and should have been returned if not forwarded to the next reviewer who was in line to cover it. And they have not made good to make it right, and lied about their plans/intentions to do, along with lying about their communication with Billet, so when GN covered it again today, Linus got caught in that lie he posted here.

I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'll just point you to Billet Labs public statement on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15rxni4/our_public_statement_regarding_ltt/

 

[VisibleXela]

Just now, Lagonas said:

Pleas elaborate why not?

Because I signed up to comment here, have commented more on this thread than anyone else here, and I straight up don't know what I'm talking about 90% of the time

[aka473]

4 minutes ago, Amaninacity said:

Then you explain that in the story. Steve didn’t mention it until he was called out. And his reasoning was that he didn’t consider it relevant.

Regardless of the reason. GN has been retroactively justified to not reach out, as LMG has already proven that they cannot be trusted to not try and squash a story before publication.

[Drazil100]

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't understand why he feels he would have "failed" if his employees would be allowed to form a union, Linus seems to take business matters too personally and doesn't want to separate his personal feelings from LMG as a company.

My only point was we don't know what their wages are and we don't even know if they are fair compared to other tech companies.

As for why people think he wants complete rule over everything its because of his attitude which he keeps displaying, and is made obvious in this thread that he's out of touch with the community, and the non-apology and refusal to publicly acknowledge this whole thing seems like he doesn't care about anything except the profit of rushing out a new video every day.

He didn't phrase his argument very well. What he means is he doesn't want to be the type of shitty employer that his employees feel they NEED to unionize against. He isn't against unions, he just wants to make sure he is giving his employees what they actually need to succeed and be happy before it gets to a point where they feel like they need to force it out of him.

It is not his responsibility to start up a Union. It's his employees responsibility to unionize. If they haven't, things are probably relatively OK there.

[RichardBirch]

2 minutes ago, PandaSasquatch said:

I'll also point out that the video from GN this morning was clearly monetized.... If there was a conflict of interest requiring him to not monetize yesterday's video, why change did he change his mind about today's video?

Because today's video was GNs standard news update and he added the response segment in after filming the rest of it - why should GN lose their income because the video partially contains a response to the entire debacle?

[dwkekciej]

3 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

They had much longer than a single business day to fix this issue they created. Its been weeks, not days. Fact of the matter is they sold something illegally that was not their property and should have been returned if not forwarded to the next reviewer who was in line to cover it. And they have not made good to make it right, and lied about their plans/intentions to do, along with lying about their communication with Billet, so when GN covered it again today, Linus got caught in that lie he posted here.

This is a great point. What if the prototype was really great when used as intended, and more reviewers were lined up to review it, thus generating more hype and potential buyers for Billet? LTT robbed Billet of a potential buyer base. LTT dissed the product, then made it impossible to have any competitors review it.

[SoulSunder]

Just now, LeeJC73 said:

Every single one of you, myself included is posting into this thread on a device manufactured by a company that has at one time or another done something that I’m damn sure wouldn’t meet your exacting moral standards, or it seems the moral standards of self righteous Steve. I’ve stopped really engaging with videos for either of them. 
LInus has become more mainstream entertainment, Steve has become more I am the bastion of all knowledge do not question me. 

Anyone dead…… Thought not. 
 

Get a f@#king grip. 

If you don’t like it vote with your fingers, but get over yourselves in believing that anyone owes you a thing because ‘you supported them’

 

Grow the hell up. 
 

 

 

Sir, this is quite possibly the most childish way to look at this situation. When someone builds their entire brand on trying to do the right thing and then gets caught doing the opposite, you don’t just “get a grip”. That’s how you end up with people continuing poor behavior.

[Red 5]

So what are the odds Linus holds to the “no wan show topic” stance at this point? XD He better come with receipts this time instead of a long winded empty statement…

[kalleth]

 

9 minutes ago, Amaninacity said:

It is not strictly legally required.

Thank you for acknowledging that. Your original post said it was required, and I just wanted to correct that it wasn't required. I agree that your sources point out that there are guidelines that state that in general, it is good practice to ask for comment before running a story on an individual or organisation.

 

However, there are exceptions to that (if, for example, as @aka473 points out, if that would lead to the story changing). My personal opinion is that this story was appropriate to run without comment (but with the right to reply - which Linus did, very poorly, and which Steve then covered on the same channel as the original claim). I don't see Steve/GN as doing anything wrong here.

4 minutes ago, aka473 said:

If contacting for comment would lead to the story changing due to malicious intervention of the target of the piece, then Journalist DO NOT have to reach out for comment.

https://www.ipso.co.uk/news-press-releases/blog/ipso-blog-do-journalists-have-to-contact-people-before-they-publish-a-story-about-them/

I'd point out that @Amaninacity is posting US sources (NPR, etc) and you're posting UK sources, just to make sure people don't talk past each other. But in general terms, I've seen comment before in this thread that matches the IPSO's interpretation in other countries -- I just can't find the post right now.

[The_Q42]

Just now, SimonShipperd said:

Well, that seems to be the conclusion everybody is making + what Billet posted themselves. And again, I don't want to be victim blaming but sending your only good prototype that you still need for development is just not a smart business descission.

 

Of course it was not correct for LMG to sell it. But I don't understand why everyone is personally blaming Linus for this. The times of him personally being in contact with companies is long gone. Occam's razer suggest that all of this stems from a large break down of communication between LMG management, the staff and Billet. Why would they willingly sell/auction something if each and every one knew they couldn't? What possibly gain could LMG have for this?

I don't think it was a BAD business decision, just a risky one.  LMG is massive, and it's a good way to drum up interest in your product and potentially gain additional capital to keep afloat/build more stuff.  It's totally valid, and they're not the only ones to do it.  Their only mistake was to make the entirely reasonable assumption that LMG would use the product as intended, on the correct card that they took the time to send along with the block.

[harls]

3 minutes ago, RevengeofProfKatz said:

They had much longer than a single business day to fix this issue they created. Its been weeks, not days. Fact of the matter is they sold something illegally that was not their property and should have been returned if not forwarded to the next reviewer who was in line to cover it. And they have not made good to make it right, and lied about their plans/intentions to do, along with lying about their communication with Billet, so when GN covered it again today, Linus got caught in that lie he posted here.

From the point LMG notified Billet there was an issue to the GN video was one business day.  We have seen nothing that tells us they were aware of the mistake prior to that.  According to Billet they have agreed to a price,  Linus tracked down and offered to get the card back for billet but they decided they would sooner have the agreed upon price.  We are currently at most 4 business days into the fiasco since they were notified it was sold.  Yes there were major fuck ups by LMG and they need to get their shit fixed.  There is no evidence of lying between LMG and Billet.

[Taf the Ghost]

4 minutes ago, The_Q42 said:

I think the set of circumstances here is . . . unique-ish.  LMG has massive power in this space, and could've done a lot to preempt GN's video and/or actively harm GN's business.  I don't think LMG would DO that, but I also kinda get where GN is coming from here.  Giving LMG a chance to rally its rather massive fanbase could've diluted what are genuine concerns.

 

I'm not saying I AGREE, just that I get it.  I think GN should've reached out at some point, but I'm not sure what the best approach would've been there as I'm not a journalist, nor am I a professional YouTuber trying to run a business.

It's called an Ambush Piece, though nearly all of GN's first video is actually observations and commentary on publicly posted material. You don't call a company for comment on their Financial Reports when you're just responding to them. The issue would be around Billet Labs. However, it took Billet getting a hold of GN to get anything done. Which really means it would have required GN Steve to contact Linus.  <--- This is the massive dysfunction.

 

While GN Steve has definitely had his own "bee in the bonnet" moments and gotten really worked up about minor things (because no one is perfect), resolving the Billet Labs situation changes very little about the video. While Linus may think that it's only happened once in 10 years, the reality is a malfunction that bad requires a massive analysis of their internal systems.  They should be pleased that Billet is just willing to take a check. LMG, the company, committed a crime (via negligence) under local law.

 

At the same time, Linus wants to bring in Labs to do far more testing of manufacturer claims. Which means significant errors in their work is a massive problem. It's pretty obvious GN Steve has been getting feed back from industry contacts about the issues around LMG.  This wasn't a hit piece. This was a combination of Intervention and Warning for future disasters if the ship isn't patched up.