Why doesn't anyone know anything about computers anymore? The answers in 1995-2006 were much better and I'm just a hobbyist.

[Armorall]

You know, it's really sad that no one seems to be able to answer my questions on here or tomshardware. 

[PcBeExpensive]

7 minutes ago, Armorall said:

You know, it's really sad that no one seems to be able to answer my questions on here or tomshardware. The computer community has really gone downhill. It's like a bunch of teens that think they know something, but then give ridiculous answers that have nothing to do with what you are asking. Myabe they should play mtg and learn how to read words and what they mean and do simple math in their heads. 

Most of those teens are still new to the tech community, people are going to make mistakes. Also the people round here are pretty good.

[filpo]

 

4 minutes ago, PcBeExpensive said:

Most of those teens are still new to the tech community, people are going to make mistakes. Also the people round here are pretty good.

take me for example, im 15. I have enough knowledge to give basic troubleshooting advice and new pc part advice but i'm not near the experience of a technician or expert

[Angusticlavii]

Most of the time the question is the problem in this forum not the answers

[mariushm]

Don't generalize.

There's lots of reasons why you may not get an answer. 

Maybe someone just didn't see your posts yet.

Maybe someone can't be bothered to read a chunk of text written in uppercase or without formatting (ENTER key exists on the keyboard for a reason). If you can't respect me enough and can't be bothered to make it easy for me to read your messages, why should I bother?

Maybe it's just some particular niche or speciality that person isn't interested it - not everyone's an expert in everything, for example i care very little about bluetooth or 3d printing 

Maybe I just don't want to answer your posts for some reason, maybe it's a question that was repeated so much i don't feel like typing anymore.

 

Maybe you should write a good title for your posts if you want help 

 

for example your latest thread is titled "please help i'm an old vet "  what does being a vet has to do with computing, do you expect special treatment or something? why not say "please help with ram issues on intel z590" .. 

As for answers to those questions ... ram frequency is not guaranteed. 4000 mhz may work with only 2 sticks of ram, may not work with all 4 sticks, some boards have difficulties driving 4 slots at 4000 mhz. 

Maybe bios has a bug or something that overrides some default voltages when you enable xmp and configure higher frequencies, giving some parts of the cpu higher voltage, causing it to produce more heat.

Check the voltages and frequencies with various software tools like aida64, cpu-z, hwinfo64 etc etc etc 

Drivers have nothing to do with being able to use the ram at 4000 mhz ... it's hardware issue.

[PcBeExpensive]

18 minutes ago, filpo said:

 

take me for example, im 15. I have enough knowledge to give basic troubleshooting advice and new pc part advice but i'm not near the experience of a technician or expert

same here.

[Armorall]

18 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Don't generalize.

There's lots of reasons why you may not get an answer. 

Maybe someone just didn't see your posts yet.

Maybe someone can't be bothered to read a chunk of text written in uppercase or without formatting (ENTER key exists on the keyboard for a reason). If you can't respect me enough and can't be bothered to make it easy for me to read your messages, why should I bother?

Maybe it's just some particular niche or speciality that person isn't interested it - not everyone's an expert in everything, for example i care very little about bluetooth or 3d printing 

Maybe I just don't want to answer your posts for some reason, maybe it's a question that was repeated so much i don't feel like typing anymore.

 

Maybe you should write a good title for your posts if you want help 

 

for example your latest thread is titled "please help i'm an old vet "  what does being a vet has to do with computing, do you expect special treatment or something? why not say "please help with ram issues on intel z590" .. 

As for answers to those questions ... ram frequency is not guaranteed. 4000 mhz may work with only 2 sticks of ram, may not work with all 4 sticks, some boards have difficulties driving 4 slots at 4000 mhz. 

Maybe bios has a bug or something that overrides some default voltages when you enable xmp and configure higher frequencies, giving some parts of the cpu higher voltage, causing it to produce more heat.

Check the voltages and frequencies with various software tools like aida64, cpu-z, hwinfo64 etc etc etc 

Drivers have nothing to do with being able to use the ram at 4000 mhz ... it's hardware issue.

If a KIT of 128GB Ram is not guaranteed to work, in a motherboard it is designed for, and says it will work perfectly at speeds advertised then it's called false advertisement. I have tried every BIOS that MSI has for the motherboard, some are VERY buggy, like disappearing mouse cursor. I already checked voltages in hwinfo64, and also intels own programs. I never said DRIVERS had anything to do with ram. I had no answers whatsoever to this question. How do I change my refresh rate of my soundbar that is stuck at a certain refresh rate and resolution. I got no answers to how to make a windows 11 usb key with drivers already installed in windows 11, and yes I know it CAN be done as I have seen people do it in Win 7 - Win 10 I just forgot how. Linus also made a mistake on one of his video's. He said you have to use a 3rd party overclocking tool for Nvidia cards..Not true, GeForce Experience has an overclocking tool built into the program.

[LogicalDrm]

-> Moved to General Discussion

[IkeaGnome]

6 hours ago, Armorall said:

If a KIT of 128GB Ram is not guaranteed to work, in a motherboard it is designed for, and says it will work perfectly at speeds advertised then it's called false advertisement.

What's the part number of the single kit of 128 gb ram you've got? 

6 hours ago, Armorall said:

I got no answers to how to make a windows 11 usb key with drivers already installed in windows 11, and yes I know it CAN be done as I have seen people do it in Win 7 - Win 10 I just forgot how.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/986155/instaling-exe-file-drivers-silently-using-the-bat

 

It's like 

6 hours ago, Armorall said:

I already checked voltages in hwinfo64, and also intels own programs.

This is a large part of why you're (probably) getting very little help. You've already checked, but then don't give us anything to go off of to help you. Posts are also a chore to read. Remember, the effort you put into a post is the effort you're generally going to get back. You'd be surprised at how helpful people are when you cut the attitude.

[Seccedonien]

8 hours ago, Armorall said:

You know, it's really sad that no one seems to be able to answer my questions on here or tomshardware. 

If you are referring to for example this post I closed it as soon as I saw an all caps message.

Personally I also expect people to show what they have tried themselves as most things can be googled easily not to mention the massive lack of any useful information in the post.

 

I don't know what the general consensus is on LMG forums but personally I come from a background where it never was considered acceptable to just drop your problem somewhere and expect people to just solve it for you without you showing any effort, personally I rather go do almost anything else with my time.

I hope you understand this is not a personal attack but more of a learning moment, if you show effort and a willingness to think along it just makes a massive difference for people like me.

[Armorall]

3 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

What's the part number of the single kit of 128 gb ram you've got? 

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/986155/instaling-exe-file-drivers-silently-using-the-bat

 

It's like 

This is a large part of why you're (probably) getting very little help. You've already checked, but then don't give us anything to go off of to help you. Posts are also a chore to read. Remember, the effort you put into a post is the effort you're generally going to get back. You'd be surprised at how helpful people are when you cut the attitude.

Part Number F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR CL18-22-22-42 1.40Volts 

[IkeaGnome]

4 minutes ago, Armorall said:

Part Number F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR CL18-22-22-42 1.40Volts 

Assuming you have the Z590 pro wifi, it's not on the QVL list. It's not guaranteed to work with the motherboard. XMP is also not guaranteed to work with the 11900k over 3200. There's a 3600 mhz kit of 128 gb on the QVL for your motherboard, and a kit of Gskill that's rated to work at 4000 mhz, but it's a 32 gb kit. 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z590-PRO-WIFI/support#mem

Anything above and beyond 3200 mhz with that cpu isn't guaranteed to work. 

Gskill only lists that kit as QVLd with a pair of x299 boards as well.

https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/166/1601284727/F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR-QVL

Quote

• Reaching the rated XMP overclock speed and system stability will depend on the compatibility and capability of the motherboard and CPU used.

 

[Armorall]

33 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Assuming you have the Z590 pro wifi, it's not on the QVL list. It's not guaranteed to work with the motherboard. XMP is also not guaranteed to work with the 11900k over 3200. There's a 3600 mhz kit of 128 gb on the QVL for your motherboard, and a kit of Gskill that's rated to work at 4000 mhz, but it's a 32 gb kit. 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z590-PRO-WIFI/support#mem

Anything above and beyond 3200 mhz with that cpu isn't guaranteed to work. 

Gskill only lists that kit as QVLd with a pair of x299 boards as well.

https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/166/1601284727/F4-4000C18Q-128GTZR-QVL

This is my cpu voltage at load 1.278 volts.

https://pangoly.com/en/compatibility/msi-z590-pro-wifi/ram

It is listed on there. Very very very very few people use actual QVL ram. The motherboard itself says

 

 

• 4x DDR4 memory slots, support up to 128GB ¹
  • Supports 1R 2133/ 2666/ 2933 MHz for 10th Gen Intel^® CPU (by JEDEC & POR)¹
  • Supports 1R 2133/ 2666/ 2933/ 3200 MHz for 11th Gen Intel^® CPU (by JEDEC & POR)
  • Max overclocking frequency:
    • 1DPC 1R Max speed up to 5333 MHz
    • 1DPC 2R Max speed up to 4700+ MHz
    • 2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4400+ MHz
    • 2DPC 2R Max speed up to 4000+ MHz

So please tell me how to make it run at least 3800mhz without locking windows up or crashing and resetting.

 

I got the same ram up to 3500mhz on a 10700kf which was in here before. This 11th gen should theoretically allow me to push a bit higher, but it does not. I had to do everything manually. Voltages, timings etc etc to even get it that high, and even had it to 1.42 volts to make it work. 

 

So I'd like to know where it's magical 4400 mhz QVL ram is then....It says it supports it...where is it????

 

This seems like some kind of false advertising scam, maybe I should sue?

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

2 minutes ago, Armorall said:

So I'd like to know where it's magical 4400 mhz QVL ram is then....It says it supports it...where is it????

There's even kits above 4400 listed on the Panogoly site you listed, but I'd go with the manufacturer's list which looks much more up to date anyways.

3 minutes ago, Armorall said:

I got the same ram up to 3500mhz on a 10700kf which was in here before. This 11th gen should theoretically allow me to push a bit higher, but it does not. I had to do everything manually. Voltages, timings etc etc to even get it that high, and even had it to 1.42 volts to make it work. 

128gb is a lot on a memory controller. Not all memory controllers are the same. That's part of the silicone lottery.

6 minutes ago, Armorall said:

This seems like some kind of false advertising scam, maybe I should sue?

Good luck. The memory controller is part of the CPU, not the motherboard. Intel only officially supports up to 3200 mhz. Anything past that is an overclock in their eyes and not guaranteed to work. 

[NF-A12x25]

11 hours ago, Armorall said:

If a KIT of 128GB Ram is not guaranteed to work, in a motherboard it is designed for, and says it will work perfectly at speeds advertised then it's called false advertisement.

no it isn’t lmao, your CPU is not guaranteed to run 4000 mt/s and neither is the motherboard. XMP is overclocking.

[RollyShed]

You might get some answers now as you seem to have laid the question out in a readable fashion.

 

1.) Make, model, year of item.

2.) Each fault in a separate paragraph.

3.) DON'T use capitals for the text, ever.

 

Final fault? Using Windows.

[Armorall]

31 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

There's even kits above 4400 listed on the Panogoly site you listed, but I'd go with the manufacturer's list which looks much more up to date anyways.

128gb is a lot on a memory controller. Not all memory controllers are the same. That's part of the silicone lottery.

Good luck. The memory controller is part of the CPU, not the motherboard. Intel only officially supports up to 3200 mhz. Anything past that is an overclock in their eyes and not guaranteed to work. 

Yes, but MSI says it will work in their advertising........it does not say may or may not work due to cpu selection or cpu silcone. Secondly I said where is the QVL memory that runs at 4400 mhz at the manufactuerers site, and where is the manufacturers website that lists the QVL....I'll bet it doesn't list 44000 mhz 128GB in QVL at the Manufacturers website, however I may be wrong since I looked before I bought this and could not even find the manufacturers memory list, all I could find was on panogoly. 

 

Your fix for putting drivers inside a usb key for windows install automatically did not help, that's the cloud. I am talking straight from a usb key, and yes I have seen people do this with Win 7 and Win 10.....usually from manufacturers...You ask for a backup win 10 on a usb key, it installs and all the MSI drivers are also installed. I know 2 people who have done this as well, but they are rarely on IRC, so it's hard to get ahold of them.

 

Also Thank you for trying to assist me, this is kind of maddening when I spent like 500.00 on ram.

If you ask WHY did I do this, mixing music, I could also make a ram drive, but I don't really want to right now. 

Also I did this as I only upgrade comps once every 10-13 years or so. I max out everything, except the videocard, then just put new videocards in as time goes by. 

If you say that's not possible...They ran a 4090 on pci-e 2.0 and only had an 8% drop approx.

[IkeaGnome]

16 minutes ago, Armorall said:

however I may be wrong since I looked before I bought this and could not even find the manufacturers memory list, all I could find was on panogoly. 

All of the manufacturers list it under Support>Compatibility>Memory.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z590-PRO-WIFI/support#mem

16 minutes ago, Armorall said:

I'll bet it doesn't list 44000 mhz 128GB in QVL at the Manufacturers website

 

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

There's a 3600 mhz kit of 128 gb on the QVL for your motherboard, and a kit of Gskill that's rated to work at 4000 mhz, but it's a 32 gb kit. 

They don't, but 2DPC 2R means 2 dies per channel, 2 rank or 2 sticks per channel. When there's 130+ kits of memory that will work 2DPC 2R, then they can and do advertise that it will. However, those kits only go up to 64 gb. (16x4). 128 gb is a completely different ball game. It's proven to work on their motherboards, with memory controllers that can handle it. The memory controller of your CPU just isn't up to running 128gb that fast. The fastest kits that MSI has QVLd with their motherboard and their CPUs of 128 gb are 3600 mhz. Expecting 4000 mhz 128gb is just too much for your particular CPU. None of the three manufacturers involved have said that it will work together.

 

What you're trying to do would be a rough equivalent of boring out a chest valve. Do we do it? Hell yeah. Does Midwestern do it? Quietly. Does that mean every chest valve can be bored out? No, there's cracks and what not that would make them explode if you bore them out. 

[HAL90000]

15 hours ago, Armorall said:

If a KIT of 128GB Ram is not guaranteed to work, in a motherboard it is designed for, and says it will work perfectly at speeds advertised then it's called false advertisement. I have tried every BIOS that MSI has for the motherboard, some are VERY buggy, like disappearing mouse cursor. I already checked voltages in hwinfo64, and also intels own programs. I never said DRIVERS had anything to do with ram. I had no answers whatsoever to this question. How do I change my refresh rate of my soundbar that is stuck at a certain refresh rate and resolution. I got no answers to how to make a windows 11 usb key with drivers already installed in windows 11, and yes I know it CAN be done as I have seen people do it in Win 7 - Win 10 I just forgot how. Linus also made a mistake on one of his video's. He said you have to use a 3rd party overclocking tool for Nvidia cards..Not true, GeForce Experience has an overclocking tool built into the program.

Memory controllers are not on motherboards, they are on CPUs. The quality of your silicon is variable as is mine, as is everyone's. 128GB is a lot of RAM and depending on the frequency you're trying to run it at, it might not work. You also need to pay attention to whether it's 'guaranteed' (nothing is guaranteed) to work in X board by the RAM manufacturer or the MOTHERBOARD manufacturer. The latter is a much surer bet. But not always, because silent revisions are more and more common in tech these days. I used to do low end builds with a very specific Patriot DDR4 kit because it was at a good price and I had no issues with it. Suddenly these kits were giving issues. Ran CPUZ on the old kits and the new kits. IDENTICAL ram Kit name and serial number, identical sticks in appearance. Supposedly identical products. Old ones used Samsung RAM, new ones used "SpecTeck" (who the heck is that amirite?) RAM and gave significant problems including not playing happily with the older sticks when installed together, again, despite supposedly being identical. So it's a crapshoot.

As for your other questions you're just wasting internet bandwidth on questions that have been asked 1000x on 10000 forums and the answers are available. Need to learn how to use google and youtube. 

BTW soundbars do not have a refresh rate or resolution they're not monitors. They have bitrates and sample rates, if you're communicating with them digitally. If by analog the settings you want are on your onboard sound in your PC or in your DAC, etc. Again, these settings are easy to find in windows and the answers are easily available. Check youtube and other forums via google.

[Armorall]

Hal9000 with HDMI hooked to a soundbar, windows 10 and windows 11 see it as a second monitor, some refresh rates and resolutions work (meaning sound comes out), and some do not. I will attempt to run it at 3600mhz on memory and see what happens. As I finally got a bit of info. Thank you guys for your time. Also yes I know they have bitrates and sample rates, but on Dolby atmos and dolby DTS:X that is not listed, all that is listed is Dolby Atmos, or Dolby DTS:X on Win 10 and Win 11.

[HAL90000]

7 minutes ago, Armorall said:

Hal9000 with HDMI hooked to a soundbar, windows 10 and windows 11 see it as a second monitor, some refresh rates and resolutions work (meaning sound comes out), and some do not. I will attempt to run it at 3600mhz on memory and see what happens. As I finally got a bit of info. Thank you guys for your time. Also yes I know they have bitrates and sample rates, but on Dolby atmos and dolby DTS:X that is not listed, all that is listed is Dolby Atmos, or Dolby DTS:X on Win 10 and Win 11.

You have no idea what you're doing. Gotta be up front and blunt with you on that one. Memory speed has no impact on this whatsoever, and I'm not willing to walk someone at your experience level through troubleshooting this, so you have the following options:

1) Analog- most soundbars still have analog in via RCA or 3.5mm. Run a cable from your motherboard's green sound port. Done.

2)SPDIF optical/coaxial- almost all soundbars support SPDIF. If you have SPDIF out from your board, problem solved. You can also add SPDIF out via a very cheap soundcard.

[ThousandBlade]

Back in 1995-2006, everyone who talks about a computer is a tinkerer or a enthusiast.

pretty mush only tinkerer or a enthusiast are online all the time.

 

Now, everyone has to use computer.

and everyone is online.

 

it's not people know less nowadays, it's just regular people has diluted the presence of tech savvy people on the internet.

[Armorall]

4 hours ago, HAL90000 said:

You have no idea what you're doing. Gotta be up front and blunt with you on that one. Memory speed has no impact on this whatsoever, and I'm not willing to walk someone at your experience level through troubleshooting this, so you have the following options:

1) Analog- most soundbars still have analog in via RCA or 3.5mm. Run a cable from your motherboard's green sound port. Done.

2)SPDIF optical/coaxial- almost all soundbars support SPDIF. If you have SPDIF out from your board, problem solved. You can also add SPDIF out via a very cheap soundcard.

Running 2nd HDMI from Nvidia card to HDMI of soundbar. HDMI is the ONLY way it will play atmos (each speaker individually during a game or movie). HDMI is also the only way it will play Dolby DTS:X, optical will NOT work, nor will analog. NORMAL DOLBY yes but not dts:x or atmos. when you do this windows 10 or 11 detects it as a monitor and also a sound output device.

I didn't say memory speed had anything to do with sound, that was a seperate questions reguarding cpu and memory and why my memory would not run at 4000mhz. I did get it to run at 3600 mhz, then for some weird reason the bios changed some cpu settings (it told me on save and  exit) so I thought okay...maybe it knows....then the cpu got to 107C so I changed it back to what it was before and now it's maxed at 83C which is fine under 100% load

and yes nvidia output supports digital sound for dolby atmos and dtsx, I was just having probs with my soundbar as....get this it scrambles the firmware in the bar if windows thinks it runs at 2160P 100hz......then I reflash and it works, only once you flash it with the latest firmware the soundbar will say no data no data no data...it's a long messed up story UGH!

 

[8tg]

I don’t even look in the general direction of posts formatted like this because if you’re not going to put in the effort to follow basic web forum etiquette in terms of post quality I’m not going to put in any effort to help with your issue.

”if I make it all caps it’ll stand out more” 

 

And I’m not the only one with this sentiment, I imagine most people who enjoy helping others with tech support problems as a hobby see posts like that as a red flag that their time is about to be wasted.

[mariushm]

So to summarize it. 

The maximum frequencies you'll reach will depend on :

* how many sticks of ram you use, if you use one stick of ram per channel or two sticks per channel. 

* if the sticks are single rank or dual rank

* how good the memory controller in the CPU is (if you're lucky in silicon lottery or not) 

* how good the layout of the motherboard is when it comes to routing the traces (wires) between CPU socket and memory slots.

* how good the BIOS is, how well it "optimizes" the timings, how good the built-in presets are. 

* how good the binning on the individual ram chips on the sticks is.

 

The kit of 4 memory sticks is sold as 4400 because they were individually binned and tested to be stable at that frequency and timings stored in their SPD chips, on a multitude of motherboards. However, it's not guaranteed they would work on ALL motherboards, especially when all four are plugged in.  

Anything above Jedec standard presets (probably up to 3600 Mhz, not sure, I think the highest Jedec standard is 3200 Mhz) is considered overclocking, and therefore not guaranteed.

 

Link : https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z590-PRO-WIFI/support#mem

 

If you go to the QVL list for the motherboard and sort by  Supported Frequency, you will see that above 4266 Mhz, on the 11th gen CPU, only THREE kits were Dual Rank sticks, and all were tested only in configuration 1 or 2 sticks (1 sticks per channel).

 

Anything else were Single Rank sticks, and in addition to that, some were configured with over-voltage of 1.55v or 1.6v - which unless Intel changed their latest CPUs, I think it's bad, and in theory can degrade the CPU over time because the internal memory controller can't handle more than 1.5v 

 

So when the QVL list is like that, that should be a hint that it's probably not possible to have 4 dual rank sticks run at 4400 Mhz on that motherboard.  Maybe if you relax the timings substantially, maybe.