AMD Deceived Us.. and YOU – Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review

[AdamFromLTT]

Hey! We got this one out on time! AMD already introduced their fancy 3D V-Cache tech to their Zen 4 series of Ryzen processors with the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D, but this is the one that everyone is waiting for. The follow-up to their so-good-its-a-problem-for-AMD 5800X3D. Can AMD bottle lightning twice? Can they take down the mighty 13900K, the king of Intel Core processors? ...Something is making me think that Intel might be developing a fear of thunder...
 

 

[ZestyJalapeno]

I can't believe it. Goodbye, 4790K, your successor is very much worthy

[IanSzot]

Thank you for including a strategy simulation game in the tests, hope to see more of it in future reviews

[Lurick]

PLEASE please please keep charts consistent!

There were several instances where processors were sorted highest to lowest in the stack, 100% fine, but then suddenly a slide comes along where the 7800X3D is on top making it so difficult to follow. I don't really care how you sort the charts just keep the CPUs/GPUs/etc in the same spot so it's easy to follow!

[xAcid9]

I wish you guy highlight the product you reviewing in your performance graph, or is that something you guys decided not to do? 

 

4 minutes ago, Lurick said:

PLEASE please please keep charts consistent!

There were several instances where processors were sorted highest to lowest in the stack, 100% fine, but then suddenly a slide comes along where the 7800X3D is on top making it so difficult to follow. I don't really care how you sort the charts just keep the CPUs/GPUs/etc in the same spot so it's easy to follow!

IKR

Fixed position? No
Average FPS? No
1% low? No

[Gaires]

It's almost like there's forced product segmentation happening here. They've clocked down the 7800X3D to differentiate it from the 7950X3D and it's still almost as fast.

The 79xxX3D parts were marketed for gaming, but in gaming they shut off half of their cores making them 6 and 8 core parts.

As for productivity, you would just buy the 7950x which is cheaper and still good for gaming.

[starsmine]

I strongly dont agree with Linus's complaints about the release schedule of the chips.

What is the Ven diagram of people who were "tricked" (word is doing a lot of heavy lifting) into buying the 7950x3d and people who don't know about the 7800x3d existing and coming out in a month. and do I have an ounce of sympathy for those dozen of people?

[spaghet rat]

i consistently see weird data tables like ths one:

the 13600k has 14 cores (6 p and 8 e) and 20 threads, with a pcore baseclock of 3.5 ghz. there is probabaly other errors but i cant find any. @AdamFromLTTi have seen errors like this twice in recent memory, when will this be addressed?

[Tony1337]

What up with benchmarking consistency? It's been all over the place with recent reviews I've watched.

[papajo]

@LinusTechI love how for years close to a decade you just praised every new intel release and somehow now that amd comes ahead (with better and cheaper CPUs that created a precedent for selling invocation to a stagnated market where intel was selling refresh after refresh with new price premiums and new unnecessary mandatory and expensive mobo upgrades) you ALWAYS find "evil" schemes and "he said she said" and conspiracy theories and bad marketing practices and deceptions and over emphasize on that.. 

I mean ok nothing wrong being a tinfoilhead maybe I am the woke one and you are right but there is something fishy if you are being a tinfoil head towards only one company

And no "split second" low voice high tempo few word mentions of intel's blunders (and usually with an apologetic language or tone or at least a discrete language) isnt the same given the history of the company (who just milked us dry for a decade almost + has many ongoing and past curts to lose against AMD)  and shouldn't count I mean easily 3 videos can come to mind where you put your negativity towards amd even in the video title/thumbnail being 100% blunt. "AMD Deceived Us... and YOU"  "Bought AMD? You got played " "Ryzen 7000 is NOT what I Expected!" etc...

Are there any videos with "Intel deceived us" ? 

And again just saying quickly and discreetly (especially when the conclusion of the video despite the "small quirks" is that intel is super good fine etc) something isnt the same as dissing a company or a product for most of the video duration including the title and/or thumbnail etc. 

Also your benches more often than not either miss something or are lower in general compared to others but only when we are talking AMD if we are talking nvidia or intel somehow the benches are either the same or higher than others lol and everything is on spot, you get pro Overclockers to help you OC them and generally the production is ideal.. with AMD you even goofed in a recent video using the non 3d cached ccd for games claiming that it is better (as you mentioned in that video) which is obviously not the case, 

I mean I dont want to wear a tinfoil cap my self but the pattern is so systematic and appealing towards making that conclusion. 

[gfaster]

I liked to see the factorio uncapping benchmark, but I think it would’ve been great using one of the megabases that are Already kind of a standard for benchmarking the game by the devs.

 

Maybe you already used it, but it was somewhat hard to tell from the video.

Edited April 5, 2023 by gfaster

[starsmine]

22 minutes ago, papajo said:

@LinusTechI love how for years close to a decade you just praised every new intel release and somehow now that amd comes ahead (with better and cheaper CPUs that created a precedent for selling invocation to a stagnated market where intel was selling refresh after refresh with new price premiums and new unnecessary mandatory and expensive mobo upgrades) you ALWAYS find "evil" schemes and "he said she said" and conspiracy theories and bad marketing practices and deceptions and over emphasize on that.. 

Huh?
Like actually Huh? did you just make up a whole backstory for LTT?

 

 

 

Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. Im sure there are a dozen more.

 

[Agall]

1 hour ago, Gaires said:

It's almost like there's forced product segmentation happening here. They've clocked down the 7800X3D to differentiate it from the 7950X3D and it's still almost as fast.

The 79xxX3D parts were marketed for gaming, but in gaming they shut off half of their cores making them 6 and 8 core parts.

As for productivity, you would just buy the 7950x which is cheaper and still good for gaming.

There might be binning in play, since even the non 3D CCD on the 7950x3D clocks higher than a standard 7950x.

[Agall]

42 minutes ago, Tony1337 said:

What up with benchmarking consistency? It's been all over the place with recent reviews I've watched.

The 7000x3D reviews will be all over the place, simply because of the extra variables. The 7800x3D has core parking issues when used on a windows install that also had the 7950x3D, something every benchmark I've seen has discussed. The 7800x3D is also artificially capped a 5.05GHz where the 7950x3D's 3D CCD is capped at 5.25GHz, so no matter the wattage draw, the 7950x3D should beat the 7800x3D. Where it doesn't is likely due to further optimizations of the 3D v-cache optimizer driver, but I'll be testing these things myself with more 7850x3D testing.

[papajo]

2 hours ago, starsmine said:

Huh?
 

Those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. Im sure there are a dozen more.

 

Nope those are the ones you searched for 10 minutes after you read my post  but let us see what you posted (because most of those videos are ages old lol) 


 

 this begins saying how good intel prices are LOL (with the core i9 cpu in the thubnail being almost 1000$ ) and then saying how good intel engineers are and only ranting about the embargo date (probably because it adds more working hours for his studio since they have to cover 2 CPUS for the same deadline) and ends up showing how the 10th gen are better than ryzen 3000 (Which they werent) showing a bunch of favoring (and questionable) bench graphs... 

 

This only has a click bait I mean even the thubnail shows a funny intel CPU in the video it tells us how cool the new Xeons are (despite being slower and 100 times more expensive than AMDs counterparts) 

 

This one is the only valid example (or close to being one)  but it was when intel was cought OCing with refridgirators XEONs and pretended that they were the air cooled new answer to the newly released AMD ryzen chips.. but again it is more like a fanboy being sad and trying to give advice to his favorite company since he doesnt acuse intel for doing all that crap by giving advice such "do the best you can and the best price you can" its like thinking that intel didnt knew this was an option like a plea for intel to "come to its senses" its far from calling them shady or whatnot. 
 

Again this is him mainly giving advice to intel on how to become better he doesnt accuse it for bein evil etc (although truth be told he mentioned many of intels shady tactics in this one but like just glancing  on them with a neutral language) 



In the OP video (among other stuff) he literally says that AMD deceived and manipulated its customers because they released the 7950x3d first and because (unlike the 4090) isnt better than the 7800x3d only to get extra $$$

Well Linus should know (and I am sure he realized that but he purposefully ignored it to make this video) the 7950x3d IS better than the 7800x3d just not in gaming in which they are equal (but I think with fine-tuning the 7950x3d can reach better clocks and be slightly better even in gaming) 

So that's a flat out accusation of AMD being deceitful with an accusative language/tone (So not a friendly fanboy advising the great amd with the great products to please next time bring the 8800x3d first "because I cant wait to have that one" or something of that sort as he does when talking about intel stuff) 

And the cherry on top (as I just explained why) the argument that lead to this accusation is false to begin with. 

P.S here an explanation about the core parking which linus acused amd of "halfassing"  for not making something (?) dedicated (like a driver? ) instead of that
 

 

[themrsbusta]

A thing we learned today: Even if you have a old gen non 3D Ryzen, you are fine.

[darknessblade]

6 minutes ago, themrsbusta said:

A thing we learned today: Even if you have a old gen non 3D Ryzen, you are fine.

Indeed, depending on the price of the 7 7800x3D I might opt for that one or the ryzen 9 7900 [non X version] for my next system.

 

[papajo]

6 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

Indeed, depending on the price of the 7 7800x3D I might opt for that one or the ryzen 9 7900 [non X version] for my next system.

 

Nah you are fine (judging from your signature) if you mostly game and want an upgrade sell your ram buy a 3800 cl14 (or try to OC you current one towards those figures) and trade your cpu for a 5800x3d and search for a program called hydra and oc it with that(it can also oc your GPU ),  you save up a lot of money and wont miss too much in terms of FPS and make your next big upgrade when the next gen comes or the one after that (if the next gen is only a small refresh and doesnt offer anything else e.g same architecture but more cores per sku ) 
 

[Agall]

So the 7800x3D has an artificial cap of 5.05GHz, the 7950x3D having an artificial cap on CCD0 of 5.25GHz, 2nd CCD being relatively unlocked, but 5.75GHz is the general value (I've seen as high as 5.875GHz on mine).

 

@LinusTech or anyone else who's seen it, what's the CCD0 maximum boost clock on the 7900x3D?

 

I've seen a complete lack of detailed reviews on this chip and it seems to have gone under the radar. I'm guessing its the same as the 7800x3D at 5.05GHz but I seem unable to confirm it and would rather not buy it just to find out. AMD is hard limiting these chips for probably good reason (though the 7800x3D should probably have a 5.25GHz max...) but I would assume the 7900x3D might be 5.25GHz as well.

 

 

Source: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D: Thermals, Power Consumption, Efficiency, Boosts - AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review: New Gaming Champ Beats Pricier CPUs | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

[Vishera]

The rig Linus suggested in the video is bad value for the money...:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($320.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin X 120 Refined SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler  ($19.89 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: MSI B550 GAMING GEN3 ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($109.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($131.99 @ Adorama) 
Video Card: MSI MECH 2X OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card  ($369.99 @ Newegg) 
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P300A Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GT 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($129.99 @ Walmart) 
Total: $1202.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-05 11:57 EDT-0400

 

 

 

Here is a better one instead:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($207.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin X 120 Refined SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler  ($19.89 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: MSI B550 GAMING GEN3 ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($109.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory  ($53.89 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Intel 670p 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GAMING OC Radeon RX 6800 XT 16 GB Video Card  ($569.99 @ Newegg) 
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P300A Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GT 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($129.99 @ Walmart) 
Total: $1231.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-05 12:11 EDT-0400

[Agall]

2 minutes ago, Vishera said:

The rig Linus suggested in the video is bad value for the money...:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($320.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin X 120 Refined SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler  ($19.89 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: MSI B550 GAMING GEN3 ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($109.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($131.99 @ Adorama) 
Video Card: MSI MECH 2X OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card  ($369.99 @ Newegg) 
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P300A Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GT 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($129.99 @ Walmart) 
Total: $1202.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-05 11:57 EDT-0400

 

 

 

Here is a better one instead:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor  ($207.99 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin X 120 Refined SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler  ($19.89 @ Amazon) 
Motherboard: MSI B550 GAMING GEN3 ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($109.99 @ Amazon) 
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory  ($53.89 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Intel 670p 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GAMING OC Radeon RX 6800 XT 16 GB Video Card  ($569.99 @ Newegg) 
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P300A Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case  ($59.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GT 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  ($129.99 @ Walmart) 
Total: $1231.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-04-05 12:11 EDT-0400

It really depends on what games you play, in especially multiplayer/MMO titles, the 5800x3D will gap the 5700x regardless of the GPU upgrade since they're heavily CPU bound. The 5800x3D and 6700XT should gap the latter rig in games most people actually play.

[firestryfe]

I'm just wondering why the results are so different in Total War: Warhammer 3 between the new video and "Bought AMD? You got played – Ryzen 7000 non-X Review"?  They're quite different, but the 13700k loses 69 (nice) Average FPS?  For F1 22, the 5800X3D gains 30 Avg FPS, and the 13900k and 13700k both lose about 20 Avg FPS in today's video.  In the other direction, in Forza Horizon 5, somehow the 13600K gained 30 FPS and is ahead of the 7950X and 5800X3D, even though it was at the bottom of the chart in the previous video?

[AdamFromLTT]

2 hours ago, McrP87 said:

i consistently see weird data tables like ths one:

the 13600k has 14 cores (6 p and 8 e) and 20 threads, with a pcore baseclock of 3.5 ghz. there is probabaly other errors but i cant find any. @AdamFromLTTi have seen errors like this twice in recent memory, when will this be addressed?

Dang it. Thanks for pointing this out. We have limited time to test, write, shoot and edit these reviews (...thanks AMD -_-) and with us tackling more data than ever before sometimes small errors make it through the cracks - like the unsightly black lines on that bottom right cell of the table. We are still learning and developing systems to improve our fact checking and catch these errors before publication. The last thing we want is to mislead our audience due to typos like these.

[Pickymarker]

you can just use process lasso to force the 7900x3d and 7950x3d to use 3d vcache on certain applications and stuff seen in these by forcing a application to run on the 3dvcache ccd videos this is the first thing i thought about when linus said the 3d vcache is on a separate ccd and i was like process lassos can fix that 

 

 

 

[filpo]

5 hours ago, AdamFromLTT said:

Hey! We got this one out on time! AMD already introduced their fancy 3D V-Cache tech to their Zen 4 series of Ryzen processors with the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D, but this is the one that everyone is waiting for. The follow-up to their so-good-its-a-problem-for-AMD 5800X3D. Can AMD bottle lightning twice? Can they take down the mighty 13900K, the king of Intel Core processors? ...Something is making me think that Intel might be developing a fear of thunder...
 

 

now instead of gpu shortages we'll get cpu shortages

(flashback to 1 year ago)