Minecraft shaders :OOO

[aidenrelkoff]

So usually my average fps on max settings and render distance far (16 chunks) is around 144 in a single player world. So i was like "Lets try some shaders in it" i did and i get like 56 fps on the same settings on the same world. But then i tried putting them in a Terrafermacraft mod (Harder survival type of MC with more mods, which is a lot harder on your system) and i got this beautiful thing! although only like 25-34 fps if i stretch it across both of my screens.

 

What a shader does:

Shadows of:

players

entitys

structures

grass

real time sun angle movement changes the shadows

Sun glare at different angles

Grass, leaves, and other vegetation moves in the wind and changes the shadow on the ground in real time

 

 

But seriously, to run max settings with a 128bit texturepack on a modpack like TFC at 1080p at 60Hz+ u need at least a GTX770 with a i5 4670k 

[Freaky_spider]

the reason you need a decent pc for mc with alot of mods is because java sucks, not because its equally intensive for you PC.

 

anyway, that does look very nice

[24OscarM]

Nice....

[24OscarM]

the reason you need a decent pc for mc with alot of mods is because java sucks, not because its equally intensive for you PC.

You just reminded of the good 'ol days when Minecraft first came out... ahhhhhh... the horrors.

[The_Ginger_spoon]

can i have a link to the shaders?

[flibberdipper]

Pretty.

[werto165]

can i have a link to the shaders?

Nice picture...

[Prokart2000]

what pack is that

[SeanAngelo]

sucks that minecraft is more cpu intensive, and java takes up a ton of memory. damn.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

the reason you need a decent pc for mc with alot of mods is because java sucks, not because its equally intensive for you PC.

 

anyway, that does look very nice

Wrong.

 

Are you an experienced Java programmer? Have you looked into the source? What could have been more optimized in minecraft/java? It sounds like you are just repeating the same garbage that other people say, when in reality they know nothing about Java or programming in general.

[Freaky_spider]

Wrong.

 

Are you an experienced Java programmer? Have you looked into the source? What could have been more optimized in minecraft/java? It sounds like you are just repeating the same garbage that other people say, when in reality they know nothing about Java or programming in general.

if im so wrong, why does mc run like crap when it also looks like crap? maybe because java was created for other stuff then games... doesnt take an programmer to make out that java wasnt made for games...

[Nineshadow]

if im so wrong, why does mc run like crap when it also looks like crap? maybe because java was created for other stuff then games... doesnt take an programmer to make out that java wasnt made for games...

Because Notch is not such a good programmer.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

if im so wrong, why does mc run like crap when it also looks like crap? maybe because java was created for other stuff then games... doesnt take an programmer to make out that java wasnt made for games...

Your basis of a statement like "Java sucks" is the way Minecraft looks and runs? Really?

 

The Java JIT compiler produces bytecode that will perform just as well as C++. There is nothing "slow" about Java.

 

By your logic all games on Android should run really badly as well? Notch has written MANY tweets saying his code is very bad for Minecraft.

[Nineshadow]

Still,you're late to the party.I used shaders in Minecraft a loooong time ago.

 

SEUS!

 

I don't play this game anymore though.

[Freaky_spider]

Your basis of a statement like "Java sucks" is the way Minecraft looks and runs? Really?

 

The Java JIT compiler produces bytecode that will perform just as well as C++. There is nothing "slow" about Java.

 

By your logic all games on Android should run really badly as well? Notch has written MANY tweets saying his code is very bad for Minecraft.

im sorry, as you said before, i cant program (you where right ) and im sorry for my misunderstanding of why jminecraft runs badly, i will know say, 'the coding that makes up minecraft sucks'

[Nineshadow]

if im so wrong, why does mc run like crap when it also looks like crap? maybe because java was created for other stuff then games... doesnt take an programmer to make out that java wasnt made for games...

Here's a very small demo of a game engine I made in Java (excuse the crap quality,I fucked up things in rendering the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c2et9qAkHU

It looks pretty damn good to me.

[Freaky_spider]

Here's a very small demo of a game engine I made in Java (excuse the crap quality,I fucked up things in rendering the video):

-snip-

It looks pretty damn good to me.

damn that's nice, i cant say java sucks for game engines now, because thats very good

[Superarragon]

Beautiful water.  (Using SEUS v10.1 Preview2)

 

[LAwLz]

Your basis of a statement like "Java sucks" is the way Minecraft looks and runs? Really?

 

The Java JIT compiler produces bytecode that will perform just as well as C++. There is nothing "slow" about Java.

 

By your logic all games on Android should run really badly as well? Notch has written MANY tweets saying his code is very bad for Minecraft.

I am going to need a source on that "runs just as well as C++" claim.

Even IF a JIT compiler was so good that it would produce better code than you could write in C++, you would still have the additional overhead of the virtual machine there.

Oh and yes, all programs on Android run badly. That's why we are seeing huge performance boosts and battery savings with ART enabled (skips the awful JIT compilation). It's just that we have fairly good hardware these days so we don't notice it as much. If we could use a better language then we could get even better performance out of them.

 

 

maybe because java was created for other stuff then games... doesnt take an programmer to make out that java wasnt made for games...

Java was made to be as platform independent as possible. That's why we need those horrible virtual machines in order to run Java programs. It's so that you can take one Java program and run it on Windows, GNU/Linux, OS X or anything else which has a Java virtual machine available for it. You don't make a language "for games" or "for general applications".

[Guest]

Still,you're late to the party.

^^^ This. Shaders have been around for quite awhile, even these new v10 shaders have had previews for some time. Nothing new but I admit it does look good.

[Mooshi]

I ran Minecraft with some ultra shaders with motion blur, max chunks and a decently high res texture pack while also hosting the server...I never knew blocks could be so intense!

 

A GTX 560 Ti with 1GB of vram is nowhere near enough for comfortable frames with all that. Once the 20nm Maxwell is out next year, I will upgrade.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

I am going to need a source on that "runs just as well as C++" claim.

Even IF a JIT compiler was so good that it would produce better code than you could write in C++, you would still have the additional overhead of the virtual machine there.

Oh and yes, all programs on Android run badly. That's why we are seeing huge performance boosts and battery savings with ART enabled (skips the awful JIT compilation). It's just that we have fairly good hardware these days so we don't notice it as much. If we could use a better language then we could get even better performance out of them.

 

 

Java was made to be as platform independent as possible. That's why we need those horrible virtual machines in order to run Java programs. It's so that you can take one Java program and run it on Windows, GNU/Linux, OS X or anything else which has a Java virtual machine available for it. You don't make a language "for games" or "for general applications".

R  Boisvert, J Moriera, M Phillipsen, R Pozo, Java and Numerical Computing, Computing in Science & Engineering, 3(2):18-24, Mar.-Apr., 2001.

Nikishkov, Y, Nikishkov, G & Savchenko, V 2003 ‘Comparison of C and Java performance in finite element computations’, Computers and Structures, vol. 81, no. 24, pp. 2401-2408.

Taboada, GL, Ramos, S, Exposito, RR, Tourino, J & Doallo, R 2013 ‘Java in the High Performance Computing arena: Research, practice and experience’, Science of Computer Programming, vol. 78, no. 5, pp. 425.

Lewis, J.P, Neumann, U, 2004 ‘Performance of Java versus C++’, University of Southern California, <http://scribblethink.org/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html>

Oracle n.d., ‘The Java HotSpot Performance Engine Architecture’ <http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/whitepaper-135217.html>

Oancea, B, Rosca, IG, Andrei, T & Iacob, AI 2011 ‘Evaluating Java performance for linear algebra numerical computations’, Procedia Computer Science, vol. 3, pp. 474-478.

K. Reinholtz, Java will be faster than C++, ACM Sigplan Notices, 35(2): 25-28 Feb 2000.

Christopher W. Cowell-Shah, Nine Language Performance Round-up: Benchmarking Math & File I/O, appeared at OSnews.com, January 2004

[MasterJV]

From my understanding, the game runs like crap because Notch wasn't a very good developer when he started making Minecraft. The engine isnt very efficient. Jen is trying to clean up the code so it won't run like crap though.

[ohJey]

[LAwLz]

R  Boisvert, J Moriera, M Phillipsen, R Pozo, Java and Numerical Computing, Computing in Science & Engineering, 3(2):18-24, Mar.-Apr., 2001.

Nikishkov, Y, Nikishkov, G & Savchenko, V 2003 ‘Comparison of C and Java performance in finite element computations’, Computers and Structures, vol. 81, no. 24, pp. 2401-2408.

Taboada, GL, Ramos, S, Exposito, RR, Tourino, J & Doallo, R 2013 ‘Java in the High Performance Computing arena: Research, practice and experience’, Science of Computer Programming, vol. 78, no. 5, pp. 425.

Lewis, J.P, Neumann, U, 2004 ‘Performance of Java versus C++’, University of Southern California, <http://scribblethink.org/Computer/javaCbenchmark.html>

Oracle n.d., ‘The Java HotSpot Performance Engine Architecture’ <http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/whitepaper-135217.html>

Oancea, B, Rosca, IG, Andrei, T & Iacob, AI 2011 ‘Evaluating Java performance for linear algebra numerical computations’, Procedia Computer Science, vol. 3, pp. 474-478.

K. Reinholtz, Java will be faster than C++, ACM Sigplan Notices, 35(2): 25-28 Feb 2000.

Christopher W. Cowell-Shah, Nine Language Performance Round-up: Benchmarking Math & File I/O, appeared at OSnews.com, January 2004

If you're just going to copy/paste what someone else has written then please link me to the original article.

That article is not good enough as proof for me. First of all, a lot of the sources are from Oracle. Of course they won't say their language sucks. Secondly, no real numbers, just vague words like "performance comparable to natively compiled languages". Fourthly, Java still suffers from all the 4 issues mentioned in the article. The Hotspot JVM do not eliminate the issues. The Hotspot JVM is just good at detecting which pieces of the code are more important than the rest, and focuses attention on optimizing the code around that. It still has to do something native programming languages don't have to do (compile the program in run-time, as well as run it in a virtual machine).

The reason why I am very skeptical is because these two issues are issues that you just have to face with Java. It does run in a virtual machine, and it does have to be complied every single time you run it (and while it is running). You simply do not have to do either of these two resource heavy things with native code (not to mention the other issues the blog brought up).

 

I will look through the white papers tomorrow (it's 2:35 AM here) to see if the tests were fair.

C and C++ are extremely powerful languages and if you utilize that properly (as in, don't just write everything on the heap and pass the entire variables back and forth between functions) then I don't see any way in hell that Java could be faster. If you write your program in C like you would in Java then I can see Java being faster, but that's because the programmers were incompetent, not because the language is good.

You also have to update C code to utilize things like new instruction sets, but with Java you just have to update the virtual machine. So if you run an old C program and an old Java program then the Java program might perform better, but again it's because of the developer, not the language.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, Minecraft is awfully programmed (and from the little I have seen Notch program, he doesn't seem that good at it) but you can put some blame on Java as well.