Minecraft shaders :OOO

[Mooshi]

If you're just going to copy/paste what someone else has written then please link me to the original article.

That article is not good enough as proof for me. First of all, a lot of the sources are from Oracle. Of course they won't say their language sucks. Secondly, no real numbers, just vague words like "performance comparable to natively compiled languages". Fourthly, Java still suffers from all the 4 issues mentioned in the article. The Hotspot JVM do not eliminate the issues. The Hotspot JVM is just good at detecting which pieces of the code are more important than the rest, and focuses attention on optimizing the code around that. It still has to do something native programming languages don't have to do (compile the program in run-time, as well as run it in a virtual machine).

The reason why I am very skeptical is because these two issues are issues that you just have to face with Java. It does run in a virtual machine, and it does have to be complied every single time you run it (and while it is running). You simply do not have to do either of these two resource heavy things with native code (not to mention the other issues the blog brought up).

 

I will look through the white papers tomorrow (it's 2:35 AM here) to see if the tests were fair.

C and C++ are extremely powerful languages and if you utilize that properly (as in, don't just write everything on the heap and pass the entire variables back and forth between functions) then I don't see any way in hell that Java could be faster. If you write your program in C like you would in Java then I can see Java being faster, but that's because the programmers were incompetent, not because the language is good.

You also have to update C code to utilize things like new instruction sets, but with Java you just have to update the virtual machine. So if you run an old C program and an old Java program then the Java program might perform better, but again it's because of the developer, not the language.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, Minecraft is awfully programmed (and from the little I have seen Notch program, he doesn't seem that good at it) but you can put some blame on Java as well.

 

Java is terribly inefficient and is hell on CPU cycles. I can't see why one would try to justify Java over better languages.

[AlexGoesHigh]

Java is terribly inefficient and is hell on CPU cycles. I can't see why one would try to justify Java over better languages.

ok i'm not a programer (finding time to learn on my own) but isn't java more easier and faster to code as in, you get the same result on half the time by using other languages?

[Mooshi]

ok i'm not a programer (finding time to learn on my own) but isn't java more easier and faster to code as in, you get the same result on half the time by using other languages?

 

Let's put it this way, last time I went to the Nether on Minecraft while also hosting the server, my CPU spiked all the way to 90% while my GPU usage was under 50%. I have a second gen i5 running at 4.6Ghz so that should say something. When I checked task manager, it was both instances of java (server and game) that were eating up so many cpu cycles. This was also without using shaders to add more stress.

[AlexGoesHigh]

Let's put it this way, last time I went to the Nether on Minecraft while also hosting the server, my CPU spiked all the way to 90% while my GPU usage was under 50%. I have a second gen i5 running at 4.6Ghz so that should say something. When I checked task manager, it was both instances of java (server and game) that were eating up so many cpu cycles. This was also without using shaders to add more stress.

ah ok i get it, java isn't the best for this application, though i wonder how long it would take to re built the whole game on another language

[Mooshi]

ah ok i get it, java isn't the best for this application, though i wonder how long it would take to re built the whole game on another language

 

There was a Minecraft like Minecraft clone made in C++ around 2 years ago as a test. Not sure whatever became of it, but here is a video.

 

[Riddler356]

So usually my average fps on max settings and render distance far (16 chunks) is around 144 in a single player world. So i was like "Lets try some shaders in it" i did and i get like 56 fps on the same settings on the same world. But then i tried putting them in a Terrafermacraft mod (Harder survival type of MC with more mods, which is a lot harder on your system) and i got this beautiful thing! although only like 25-34 fps if i stretch it across both of my screens.

 

What a shader does:

Shadows of:

players

entitys

structures

grass

real time sun angle movement changes the shadows

Sun glare at different angles

Grass, leaves, and other vegetation moves in the wind and changes the shadow on the ground in real time

 

desktopbackground.png

 

But seriously, to run max settings with a 128bit texturepack on a modpack like TFC at 1080p at 60Hz+ u need at least a GTX770 with a i5 4670k 

I run it maxed out like that, but i have an i5 3570k @3.5Ghz, and a base clock MSI 660ti PE

[AlexGoesHigh]

There was a Minecraft like Minecraft clone made in C++ around 2 years ago as a test. Not sure whatever became of it, but here is a video.

 

-snip-

for an alpha build it does look impressive, maybe the guys dropped it because they couldn't profit on it, without a legitimate lawsuit by mojang

[Art Vandelay]

the reason you need a decent pc for mc with alot of mods is because java sucks, not because its equally intensive for you PC.

It's not really that Java sucks as much as you should not be programming something like that on an interpreted language like Java. Java has its place and seems to work pretty well when it's used correctly.

[aidenrelkoff]

what pack is that

look below

 

can i have a link to the shaders?

sure: 

Mod insaller: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1544257-172174175shaders-mod-v2312-updated-by-karyonix/

Pack i used: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1953873-164-172-sildurs-shaders-pcmacintel/

SEUS (i also use this, because it looks better at night time): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/940974-175sonic-ethers-unbelievable-shaders-v101/

 

Still,you're late to the party.I used shaders in Minecraft a loooong time ago.

 

SEUS!

 

I don't play this game anymore though.

lol yeah they have been out long, i'v only had this pc for like 6 months and before i was on my craptop so i forgot about these things. 

 

Beautiful water.  (Using SEUS v10.1 Preview2)

Awesome, the only thing i dont like about that pack it that, the player shadow is so pixely.. and the clouds glitch out a little on mine.

 

I ran Minecraft with some ultra shaders with motion blur, max chunks and a decently high res texture pack while also hosting the server...I never knew blocks could be so intense!

 

A GTX 560 Ti with 1GB of vram is nowhere near enough for comfortable frames with all that. Once the 20nm Maxwell is out next year, I will upgrade.

 

Yah, to run this at 60+ fps on high settings with 12 chunks render, you need like a 660Ti and a third gen i5. At least

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

Java is terribly inefficient and is hell on CPU cycles. I can't see why one would try to justify Java over better languages.

Let's put it this way, last time I went to the Nether on Minecraft while also hosting the server, my CPU spiked all the way to 90% while my GPU usage was under 50%. I have a second gen i5 running at 4.6Ghz so that should say something. When I checked task manager, it was both instances of java (server and game) that were eating up so many cpu cycles. This was also without using shaders to add more stress.

 

Can we stop making generalisations about Java when is based upon a game where the main developer himself says it is poorly coded?

[AlexGoesHigh]

look below

 

sure: 

Mod insaller: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1544257-172174175shaders-mod-v2312-updated-by-karyonix/

Pack i used: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1953873-164-172-sildurs-shaders-pcmacintel/

SEUS (i also use this, because it looks better at night time): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/940974-175sonic-ethers-unbelievable-shaders-v101/

 

lol yeah they have been out long, i'v only had this pc for like 6 months and before i was on my craptop so i forgot about these things. 

 

Awesome, the only thing i dont like about that pack it that, the player shadow is so pixely.. and the clouds glitch out a little on mine.

 

 

Yah, to run this at 60+ fps on high settings with 12 chunks render, you need like a 660Ti and a third gen i5. At least

oh my seus does make minecraft looks incredible, ill post screenshots once i have a texture pack on it

[The_Evenger]

I miss it when Minecraft singleplayer didn't run on a internal server, everything feels like multiplayer now...

 

(that was implemented so people could join your world via LAN in update 1.3)

[AlexGoesHigh]

SEUS + CHx64 resource pack

night shot

*insert pukes rainbows meme*

why didn't i disable the hud is out of my mind, still it looks awesome

[SirReallySam]

Still,you're late to the party.I used shaders in Minecraft a loooong time ago.

 

SEUS!

true that!

[aidenrelkoff]

I miss it when Minecraft singleplayer didn't run on a internal server, everything feels like multiplayer now...

 

(that was implemented so people could join your world via LAN in update 1.3)

whaaa??? dont we want LAN?

[The_Evenger]

whaaa??? dont we want LAN?

well it allows some experiments with stuff like tunngle, but for the most part i rather just set up a server if I wanted people to join...

[aidenrelkoff]

well it allows some experiments with stuff like tunngle, but for the most part i rather just set up a server if I wanted people to join...

then dissable lan...

 

also did you know, when u enable lan in a single player, it gives you the port. if you port forward that port others can join with [your ip]:[port] lol so thats accually the easiest way to make a server. although u have to to be online, and everytime u relog it changed the port as of minecraft 1.6.2

[The_Evenger]

then dissable lan...

 

also did you know, when u enable lan in a single player, it gives you the port. if you port forward that port others can join with [your ip]:[port] lol so thats accually the easiest way to make a server. although u have to to be online, and everytime u relog it changed the port as of minecraft 1.6.2

you have to make a hole in your router's firewall in order to do that, which my dad doesn't allow me to do because he is afraid that someone will get through it...

 

also just disabling LAN doesn't disable the internal server. the entire game is based of a client side and a server side now. if you still have the old launcher (i don't know if the new one acts like the old one) and load up 1.2.5 you will see a HUGE difference to how the game plays. you will never see mobs glitching through the ground, spiders wont climb walls up & down at 1000mph, maps pop in instantly, chunks load way better, you wont be walking next to a wall and suddenly fall into it (as rare as that is) animals and wheat work WAY better! and alot of other things.

 

trust me it just feels way better, the current system just isn't nearly as satisfying, it just feels like a well-pinged multiplier server, which, sadly, always have arguments regardless of the ping...

[aidenrelkoff]

you have to make a hole in your router's firewall in order to do that, which my dad doesn't allow me to do because he is afraid that someone will get through it...

 

also just disabling LAN doesn't disable the internal server. the entire game is based of a client side and a server side now. if you still have the old launcher (i don't know if the new one acts like the old one) and load up 1.2.5 you will see a HUGE difference to how the game plays. you will never see mobs glitching through the ground, spiders wont climb walls up & down at 1000mph, maps pop in instantly, chunks load way better, you wont be walking next to a wall and suddenly fall into it (as rare as that is) animals and wheat work WAY better! and alot of other things.

 

trust me it just feels way better, the current system just isn't nearly as satisfying, it just feels like a well-pinged multiplier server, which, sadly, always have arguments regardless of the ping...

haha, well if the port is 25565 then you dont need to include the port after the ip (like most servers) but if its somthing like 22349, then its highly unlikly that someone will find the port.