[Verge] "Apple blasts Samsung over originality"

[Smeeoh]

Source: http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/29/5661468/apple-blasts-samsung-over-originality-bravery-in-closing-argument 

 

 

Image: http://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/assets/4378275/Screen_Shot_2014-04-29_at_8.36.10_AM.png

 

Apple wraps up its side of the court battle against Samsung, with one last  appeal to the jury before they make a decision; by accusing the company one last time of copying five features,"slide-to-unlock, universal search, data synchronization, keyboard autocorrect, and a feature referred to as "quick links," which analyzes text for phone numbers and addresses and gives you contextual options when you tap them" (Josh Lowensohn, The Verge), of  which Apple owned patents. Samsung is counter suing Apple for infringing on two of its patents.

 

" 'More than 37 million devices are at issue in this case. And unlike in fairy tales, we know Samsung's illegal strategy has been wildly successful," McElhinny said. "The only products that are selling today are Apple products ... and infringing Samsung products. It is literally a two-horse race (Josh Lowensohn, The Verge).

 

Apple is asking for $2.191 billion dollars damages, while Samsung wants $6.2 million.

 

 

 

I really don't know where I sit on this yet. What do you people think?

 

[SirRoderick]

What I think is that basing a device on a rectangular touchscreen leaves few options as to design and frankly originality is not required. This includes basic touch functionality like a keyboard correction function and unlock slide, that's just common sense not something you can own. Actual techical patents carry a lot more weight.

[StingBull]

So according to Apple the only way one can create an original smartphone is if they don't include a screen.

[kuddlesworth9419]

Thats funny because the last time I checked all Apple phones look the same.

[qwertywarrior]

the only reason apple is attacking samsung is because its a threat

i can name many other phones that would infringe on apple patents etc but they are going after samsung

 

and it doesnt matter if samsung won Obama will veto it just like last time

[matin94]

yeah.....no

[MG2R]

My stance: Apple doesn't have a leg to stand on. You can't patent ideas, only specific implementations of those ideas, hence things like 'slide to unlock' can be used by everyone, Apple can only patent their specific implementation.

[Kamina]

Apple shouldn't open their mouths about originality. 

[Guest]

"The only products that are selling today are Apple products ... and infringing Samsung products. It is literally a two-horse race (Josh Lowensohn, The Verge)

 

Go fuck yourself.  Yew noh noffin Josh Lowensohn!

[StingBull]

I'll stick to my GS3, Z10 & Z30 thanks.

Why do you use both the z10 and the z30?

[Mo5]

We had phones that underlined phone numbers many years before iPhone did it... you can't patent a basic feature like that (apparently you can). This is stupid. I understand if you pattent an antenna or something similar, but the next thing they'll do is patent a lock screen with the clock on it -.-

[mr moose]

Silly thing is that data sync, quick links and auto correct have all been implemented in some form or another on phones prior to the iphone.  They must have some pretty good lawyers to pull this off.  Mind you it doesn't help that every time they take someone to court they ensure it is in their home town where 99% of the dury is like to work or have family that work for apple.

[SirRoderick]

"The only products that are selling today are Apple products ... and infringing Samsung products. It is literally a two-horse race (Josh Lowensohn, The Verge)

 

Go fuck yourself.  Yew noh noffin Josh Lowensohn!

It's blatantly not even true, one person in my family has an iPhone, one has a samsung S4 and everybody else has either a Nexus (because I told them so) or a Sony xperia which mother really likes and lastly a cousin that uses a Nokia.

[ijKs Snow]

It's blatantly not even true, one person in my family has an iPhone, one has a samsung S4 and everybody else has either a Nexus (because I told them so) or a Sony xperia which mother really likes and lastly a cousin that uses a Nokia.

Yes, but the Nexus line isn't returning profits. Google is hands down losing money on the Nexus line. The only reason Sony, HTC, and Nokia hasn't sunk yet is because Android/mobile technology is a orgy fest. Everyone is earning royalties for each phone sold. Hell, even Microsoft is getting a % off every Android phone sold. Currently, the only two companies making money off actual hardware sales is Samsung and Apple.

 

And for the Chinese companies entering the market like OnePlus, Huawei, Oppo, etc. they get huge tax breaks from the government and pretty much the best rate on labor fees. Which is the reason they seem so strong in terms of pricing. They are cutting corners elsewhere.

[SirRoderick]

Yes, but the Nexus line isn't returning profits. Google is hands down losing money on the Nexus line. The only reason Sony, HTC, and Nokia hasn't sunk yet is because Android/mobile technology is a orgy fest. Everyone is earning royalties for each phone sold. Hell, even Microsoft is getting a % off every Android phone sold. Currently, the only two companies making money off actual hardware sales is Samsung and Apple.

 

And for the Chinese companies entering the market like OnePlus, Huawei, Oppo, etc. they get huge tax breaks from the government and pretty much the best rate on labor fees. Which is the reason they seem so strong in terms of pricing. They are cutting corners elsewhere.

Making money is what's important to them, doesn't matter if it's from the hardware or not. Google is making cash hand over fist so they can stand to lose some over the hardware. It's like the entire console era prior to the new ones.

[Guest]

Currently, the only two companies making money off actual hardware sales is Samsung and Apple.

 

And for the Chinese companies entering the market like OnePlus, Huawei, Oppo, etc. they get huge tax breaks from the government and pretty much the best rate on labor fees. Which is the reason they seem so strong in terms of pricing. They are cutting corners elsewhere.

I don't think it's entirely fair to write off HTC, Sony, Nokia, LG and other major manufacturers.

[ijKs Snow]

Making money is what's important to them, doesn't matter if it's from the hardware or not. Google is making cash hand over fist so they can stand to lose some over the hardware. It's like the entire console era prior to the new ones.

Um what? You seem to have went way off topic. I was quoting your above post which quoted the whatever guy from the Verge. Basically, what he is saying is that Google, HTC, Sony, Nokia's % of mobile hardware sales are mere pennies compare to Apple/Samsung's marketshare of phones. The number of Nexus devices being sold then becomes irrelevant. It really is currently a two-horse race since all the other horses have been double lapped few times over.

[LAwLz]

Silly thing is that data sync, quick links and auto correct have all been implemented in some form or another on phones prior to the iphone.  They must have some pretty good lawyers to pull this off.  Mind you it doesn't help that every time they take someone to court they ensure it is in their home town where 99% of the dury is like to work or have family that work for apple.

I am almost certain that Apple has bribed people to get those patents. It's either bribes or extremely incompetent people working at the patent office.

The scariest thing is that the patents are so vague and broad that basically all phones ever made probably infringes Apple's patents in one way or another.

Prior art doesn't seem to invalidate patents either for some reason.

There were phones on the market that looked like the iPhone before the iPhone was announced. The other parents Apple is suing over have prior art as well.

Apple has Obama on their side as well, so it doesn't really matter what Samsung does... Even if Samsung wins Obama will just invalidate the decision. Oh well... At least all other countries are smart about it. It's funny how a company from America only manages to win in America, but loses everywhere else, isn't it?

[SirRoderick]

Um what? You seem to have went way off topic. I was quoting your above post which quoted the whatever guy from the Verge. Basically, what he is saying is that Google, HTC, Sony, Nokia's % of mobile hardware sales are mere pennies compare to Apple/Samsung's marketshare of phones. The number of Nexus devices being sold then becomes irrelevant. It really is currently a two-horse race since all the other horses have been double lapped few times over.

But it isn't irrelevant at all I believe, market share isn't that overwhelmingly in their favour that they don't stand to lose the advantage. Better alternatives like the NExus devices, just to pick one from the bunch, are increasingly available and will drag these two giants down over time if they spend more energy filing petty lawsuits over each other rather than innovate.

[ijKs Snow]

I don't think it's entirely fair to write off HTC, Sony, Nokia, LG and other major manufacturers.

Never wrote them off. They make great hardware, but from the financial side, HTC is breaking even. Sony and Nokia is a sinking ship, but the reason they are staying afloat is because they also have many patents which grants them a % of every phone sold. LG seems to be making a good comeback, but let's be honest, they are making more money off the panels that go on phones, rather then their own line of devices.

[ijKs Snow]

But it isn't irrelevant at all I believe, market share isn't that overwhelmingly in their favour that they don't stand to lose the advantage. Better alternatives like the NExus devices, just to pick one from the bunch, are increasingly available and will drag these two giants down over time if they spend more energy filing petty lawsuits over each other rather than innovate.

Actually, the market share IS that overwhelming. Sure, Nexus devices are readily available in NA. Now go to places like Brazil, India, China, SE Asia, Middle East. Pretty sure the Nexus line has <1% market share in areas where the economy is growing at an extremely rapid rate with about 3/4th of the entire world's population. Last time I checked, Apple and Samsung together in the mobile market makes up for about 75% of every device sold. That seems overwhelming when there are about 10 other companies fighting for that 20-25%.

[SirRoderick]

Actually, the market share IS that overwhelming. Sure, Nexus devices are readily available in NA. Now go to places like Brazil, India, China, SE Asia, Middle East. Pretty sure the Nexus line has <1% market share in areas where the economy is growing at an extremely rapid rate with about 3/4th of the entire world's population. Last time I checked, Apple and Samsung together in the mobile market makes up for about 75% of every device sold. That seems overwhelming when there are about 10 other companies fighting for that 20-25%.

You're cherry picking an example. You want India? Moto G

 

I'm not arguing for Nexus phones, I'm arguing for competitors in general making up a significant enough portion of the market that the established big two need to worry about it. Which is blatantly the case, non-samsung android phones are anything but rare.

[hawaiims]

I am almost certain that Apple has bribed people to get those patents. It's either bribes or extremely incompetent people working at the patent office.

The scariest thing is that the patents are so vague and broad that basically all phones ever made probably infringes Apple's patents in one way or another.

Prior art doesn't seem to invalidate patents either for some reason.

There were phones on the market that looked like the iPhone before the iPhone was announced. The other parents Apple is suing over have prior art as well.

Apple has Obama on their side as well, so it doesn't really matter what Samsung does... Even if Samsung wins Obama will just invalidate the decision. Oh well... At least all other countries are smart about it. It's funny how a company from America only manages to win in America, but loses everywhere else, isn't it?

maybe one company wins over the other because the laws are setup that way?

 

patent systems are not similar at all between countries you know. Many countries for example do not allow software patents while the US does.

 

Stop trying to make it all into a big conspiracy. 

 

And you can't compare (excuse my pun) apples to oranges. The case that would have seen apple devices banned from import and samsung devices for import were not the same at all in every single way. They were not similar types of patents and all that, so you can't just dismiss it as "Obama is playing favorites, Samsung is such a victim boohoo"

[Akolyte]

I have no longer any apple device and can now say this:

 

WTF are you thinking Apple?!!?  They are like the spoilt favourite child, as soon as another kid comes along doing something better instead of being all cool they do everything they can to tear them to shreds while looking kind, good and righteous in front of their parents. 

[ijKs Snow]

You're cherry picking an example. You want India? Moto G

 

I'm not arguing for Nexus phones, I'm arguing for competitors in general making up a significant enough portion of the market that the established big two need to worry about it. Which is blatantly the case, non-samsung android phones are anything but rare.

Not sure how I'm cherry picking information.

 

It's FACT that no other company CURRENTLY are making money off mobile device sales except Apple and Samsung (and Nokia, but not smartphones). Everyone else is getting by on royalties or breaking even.

Motorola was losing money for Google daily which is why they were sold off. Nexus is losing Google money daily which is fact. Google is making money off software not hardware.

 

You seemed to have countered your own argument. Yes, you are correct that non-samsung android phones are anything but rare. Which is why it's even more surprising that Samsung is selling more mobile devices then the next 9 companies in the line put together (Android phones).

 

Sure, if you want to group HTC, Sony, LG, Huawei, Motorola, TCL all together as one, then yes it is very competitive. But if you look at these companies individually, none of them are significantly growing fast enough to catch up to Apple and Samsung in terms of per device sales. I'm just saying this because I have been investing in tech companies for a while and each companies investor portfolios look very different from some survey graph on a website.