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This Cooler Makes No Sense

Plouffe
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Turbulent blocks have been around for a while, but when the Tri-Swift from Fluix was claiming to be 25% better than the competition with pricing to match, we had to test it for ourselves against an EK Quantum Velocity² on the same custom loop.

 

Buy an EKWB Quantum Velocity 2: https://lmg.gg/DLHIO

Buy an EKWB Pro CPU Quick Disconnect: https://lmg.gg/SdOZC

 

 

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Is Swiftech still a popular brand?  Are they even in business anymore?

Sorry, I haven't followed watercooling since Cathar was designing water blocks.

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You guys should test the CPU block french overclocker "niuulh" made.. if you can even call it a block, it mounts straight to the CPU. I'm not affiliated or anything, just think it's neat and could need some media attention.

 

https://www.niuulhsworkshop.eu/

 

 

280721708_128593789824035_4970680378971173541_n.jpg

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Whoever put this video together really fucked up not getting good b-roll shots of how the block is actually designed.  Y'all have some stupid boundary layer animation but no animation of the flow path through the block?  Fail.

 

Also the Alphacool XPX block is the best design nowadays to hold as a reference of all that is possible.  EK has spent the last 5 years cranking their prices and adding RGB to what is fundamentally the same block as the Supremacy Evo.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Mining Box: HP Prodesk G1 (Haswell 4590), 3x 3080Ti, 3x 3080 10GB, AX1500i @ 240V.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || EVGA 3060 || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3060 Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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6 minutes ago, -eMpTy- said:

You guys should test the CPU block french overclocker "niuulh" made.. if you can even call it a block, it mounts straight to the CPU. I'm not affiliated or anything, just think it's neat and could need some media attention.

 

https://www.niuulhsworkshop.eu/

They tested something like that several years ago. 

 

It doesn't work.  You need surface area on top of the package more than you need a thinner transfer layer between the fluid and the package.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Mining Box: HP Prodesk G1 (Haswell 4590), 3x 3080Ti, 3x 3080 10GB, AX1500i @ 240V.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || EVGA 3060 || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3060 Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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the issue with this entire design is that the jet plates mostly benefit from pressure, this being the incoming pressure, which due to them splitting the inlet line into 2 equal sized tubes dropped the pressure by 2 making it harder for the plates to increase the pressure enough to even make non laminar flow.
And secondly and i can not stress this enough the water flow in either m3/m or f3/m stays the same, so there is the same amount of water cooling the same thermal output at a reduced turbulent stream.
As for the entire dual intake look, it just looks hideous and the placement of the holes feels awkward from a building a loop standpoint

RAM 32 GB of Corsair DDR4 3200Mhz            MOTHERBOARD ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
CPU Ryzen 9 5950X             GPU dual r9 290's        COOLING custom water loop using EKWB blocks
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Psu Corsair AX1200i
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To be fair, skyved microfins would make that flow rather laminar in a quick hurry. (since tubular flow turns laminar if meet with a set of parallel narrow walls of sufficient length. This is how wind tunnels and other laminar flow sources work. Though usually multiple parallel paths in an array as to also remove rotational movement from the flow.)

Though, tiny fins means that the boundary layer won't be as thick. Since water still is thermally conductive it would help with increasing thermal transfer.

 

Personally I would just take a copper block, machine a couple of narrow channels into it, then use a skyving machine with multiple narrow cutters with a slight offset from each other to cut in an array of fins where each set of fins are 50% offset from the prior. A bit of precision machining, but that is nothing special.
Here is a crudely thrown together model of what I am thinking:

image.png.f186a31571d8eea7e8373dfa2f9ee479.png

This should ensure that the flow remains mostly turbulent throughout the whole route. It will however have higher flow resistance.

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1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

They tested something like that several years ago. 

 

It doesn't work.  You need surface area on top of the package more than you need a thinner transfer layer between the fluid and the package.

As far as I understand based on their site, their objective is low maintenance and good looks while keeping the CPU visible, rather than performance. So it should be fine for the most part as long as you don't expect it to perform like a good waterblock.

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50 minutes ago, Nystemy said:

image.png.f186a31571d8eea7e8373dfa2f9ee479.png

This should ensure that the flow remains mostly turbulent throughout the whole route. It will however have higher flow resistance.

Yeah...it's been done.  Ended up being meh performance.  Apogee SKF:

 

20180626_190008-Copy.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&quality=85&w=2560

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Mining Box: HP Prodesk G1 (Haswell 4590), 3x 3080Ti, 3x 3080 10GB, AX1500i @ 240V.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || EVGA 3060 || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3060 Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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11 minutes ago, KaitouX said:

As far as I understand based on their site, their objective is low maintenance and good looks while keeping the CPU visible, rather than performance. So it should be fine for the most part as long as you don't expect it to perform like a good waterblock.

The problem I see off the bat is there's no way to dismount that block without leaking water on the motherboard.  With a complete waterblock you can at least take the whole thing off and move it to the side as a closed system.  Their design forces you to effectively disassemble the block as it is installed, and they didn't even leave room around it to place towels.

Workstation:  12900KF @ 5.2Ghz || MSI Pro-A Z690 DDR4|| EVGA FTW3 3090 1000W || G.Skill 3866 4x8GB || Corsair AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Mining Box: HP Prodesk G1 (Haswell 4590), 3x 3080Ti, 3x 3080 10GB, AX1500i @ 240V.

LANRig/GuestGamingBox: 9900nonK || Gigabyte Z390 Master || ASUS TUF 3090 650W shunt || Corsair SF600 || CPU+GPU watercooled 280 rad pull only || whole-house loop.

Server Router (Untangle): 8350K @ 4.7Ghz || ASRock Z370 ITX || 2x8GB 3200 || PicoPSU 250W, running on AX1200i || whole-house loop.

Server Compute/Storage: 10850K @ 5.1Ghz || Gigabyte Z490 Ultra || EVGA 3060 || LSI 9280i-24 port || 4TB Samsung 860 Evo, 5x10TB Seagate Enterprise Raid 6, 4x8TB Seagate Archive Backup ||  whole-house loop.

Laptop: HP Elitebook 840 G8 (Intel 1185G7) + 3060 Thunderbolt Dock, Razer Blade Stealth 13" 2017 (Intel 8550U)

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Posting this on the closest thread I can as there isn’t a thread on the newest ShortCircuit video, but at 3:20 the video displays what I can only think of as James’ personal email address.
 

Something that should be reviewed and amended if that is the case. 

 

Sorry if this isn’t the place, just had to raise some place where someone hopefully sees this!

DevOps Engineer working with Azure primarily, Kubernetes evangelist, Born at a very young age, eats things from the microwave, Ultrawide nerd. 

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38 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Yeah...it's been done.  Ended up being meh performance.  Apogee SKF:

Except the Apogee SKF doesn't stager its fins. So it is just laminar flow with with occasional periods without walls, no real requirements for said flow to move to one side of the other. (Perhaps the goal were that the interruptions in the wall would magically cause turbulence, and it would, but the space they left without fins is huge so they do give up a lot of surface area there...)

 

The idea with the period is to shift the fins over so that the next set of fins forces the flow to change course. Ideally over a very narrow distance. (ie, the slot should preferably be no larger than the fin pitch itself.) Something the Apogee SKF also doesn't do.
image.thumb.png.cafaaa55b8c92b33a0e70babf94003c5.png

 

One can also look into additional methods of causing turbulence. One idea is to not just cut a straight channel before the skyving process, but perhaps also EDM in a jagged edge into the edges of the fins, furthering the turbulence.

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If you want a really big laugh you should have tested this setup where the ambient temp is 30C 🤣 My system runs in temperatures even higher than those thanks to summer all year round and no air conditioning. Yet my CPU, an overclocked 5960X, has rarely gone into the 70's, let alone 80's and sits mostly in the 60C range -5C/+5C among it's 8 cores.

 

Stupid design is not how you attack the temperature problem. A simple radiator upgrade would have given you better results here than wasting time testing some Rising Sun Electronics hack job. How do even take a monkey-business company like this seriously??? EK for their part have had years of experience and use the latest manufacturing and engineering as have outfits like Swiftech when they were the top dog.

 

Splitting the inlet flow essentially degrades cooling performance because you effectively halve the pressure inside the block where it is needed. You could get around it by using independent inlets from dual pumps, except then your flow rate doubles at the outlet and the single point then creates back pressure inside the block, getting you into an even worse problem. You don't need an engineering degree to realize that a larger diameter outlet is what should have been implemented here to work with the dual inlets!!! Unfortunately that's not going to be compatible with current PC water cooling gear. Nobody splits their loop any more and any dual pump setup would be for redundancy only in case of a premature pump failure. My D5 has been running 24/7 for the last 7 years and is not showing any signs of quitting.

 

At the end of the day you're left with the only real solution - throw more radiators and fans at the problem. There's a serious reason why I have FIVE chunky 80mm thick rads in my build along with 30 (yes thirty) fans cooling everything, never mind close to a full gallon of coolant circulating in the loop and the biggest diameter fitting/tubing that my radiators can still clear. Together they do an outstanding job keeping my four graphics cards, CPU, VRM and chipset cool, calm and always in charge.

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5 hours ago, KeyringHardhat said:

Posting this on the closest thread I can as there isn’t a thread on the newest ShortCircuit video, but at 3:20 the video displays what I can only think of as James’ personal email address.
 

Something that should be reviewed and amended if that is the case. 

 

Sorry if this isn’t the place, just had to raise some place where someone hopefully sees this!

seems like they've rectified that.

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Great to see a watercooling video that credits Cathar. He revolutionised watercooling and got very little reward. Here is what the Whitewater did that was so revolutionary - this one is normally used as a paperweight these days 😀

 

IMG-2496.jpg

 

Note the "microchannels", the jet plate, central inlet and two outlets.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I bet it would have better performance if they werent to use that ugly Y splitter (what were they thinking btw especially putting it in frond of the block lol) , whatever they gain by turbulence they lose by pressure/flow being reduced by half in each hole. 

Also @Plouffe you have so many machining tools there put a word please to the right ear to test if there is a temperature drop by machining off some of the surface metal in the shape of a grid (if you didnt get what I mean think of creating/carving out grooves on the surface with the lines a few mm deep and 1 mm or less wide)  on the IHS it self then filling them grooves/gaps with liquid metal.

I bet due to the increased surface area that this would create it would have better results using whatever cpu cooler/waterblock compared to the same cpu cooler/waterblock cooling the same CPU without the IHS being "scarred" with said grid. 

I always wanted to test this but dont have the resolve and motivation (also the tooling ) to do so 😛 I think it could make for a good video or at least you could add this to an existing/planned video about cpu cooling/temps. 

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