Charging standards- they're a mess!

[I_am_so_Internet]

So it's great that everything uses USB-C now. Well, mostly anyway, there are still those cheap devices that insist on still using microusb, but that's a whole other problem.

 

So now that I have one cable to rule them all, I come across far too manty problems actually charging devices.

I had one phone, that comes with it's own quick charger, but now I have a newr phone that comes with it's OWN quick charger, as the other phone's will only charge it slowly. These two chargers are also not able to charge my computer, because of course they can't! For that I need ANOTHER charger, which supports the charging standard (PD) of my computer. Isn't it great they all use the same cable? but WAIT, no, I can't use the same cable to charge my phone as my computer, because it's a different standard, and only supports up to a certain wattage! 

 

So while I technically can share SOME cables and SOME chargers, we're pretty much back to square 1 with having a separate cable and charger for each device, at least if we want them to charge properly.

 

So even with a main USB standard charging (PD/PPS) is there anyone that can list or demystify all the standards and required cables etc? 

 

I know of ones like supervooc(oppo/vivo?), Quickcharge, Apple?, AFC, BC, PE+, Huawei, dash charge (oneplus?), and it's getting way too messy. Which ones are interchangeable? What kind of cables should I buy that work with all of them? Why do I have a drawer full of old chargers that are useless unless I want to charge my devices for many hours! 

 

Thanks for your attention!

[tikker]

Welcome to charger hell. Many of us will remember the dark days where this was even more common. This is also exactly why the EU passed a directive to unify the charging landscape:

 

38 minutes ago, I_am_so_Internet said:

So even with a main USB standard charging (PD/PPS) is there anyone that can list or demystify all the standards and required cables etc? 

Within the EU it'll not just be the main standard, it will be the mandatory standard. It's so nice that all my devices already have USB-C. I can charge my phone and laptop all with the same charger and I don't have to worry about display output ports on the laptop/device itself dongle-wise. You should be fine getting a (quality) USB-C cable and charger that satisfy your power needs.

Quote

Under the new rules, consumers will no longer need a different charging device and cable every time they purchase a new device, and can use one single charger for all of their small and medium-sized portable electronic devices. Mobile phones, tablets, e-readers, earbuds, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers that are rechargeable via a wired cable will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port, regardless of their manufacturer. Laptops will also have to be adapted to the requirements by 40 months after the entry into force.

Quote

New Annex (Part I): It requires that mobiles phones and the similar radio devices, if
they are capable to be recharged via wired charging, are equipped with the USB
Type-C receptacle and, if they also require charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or
currents higher than 3 amperes or powers higher than 15 watts , incorporate the USB
Power Delivery charging communication protocol

 

It still 2 years before it goes into full effect, but for the devices covered by that mandate there will be only one standard within the EU: a USB-C charging port implementing the USB-PD charging protocol. After a recent update USB Type-C 2.1 now allows for up to 240 W of power which will cover a lot of devices'  power needs.

 

Cheap devices will be cheap devices though and if they fall outside this directive, then it is what it is unfortunately.

[Vishera]

35 minutes ago, I_am_so_Internet said:

So even with a main USB standard charging (PD/PPS) is there anyone that can list or demystify all the standards and required cables etc? 

 

There is no standard for charging,

The manufacturer of the device just does whatever it wants.

 

35 minutes ago, I_am_so_Internet said:

What kind of cables should I buy that work with all of them?

100W Thunderbolt 3/USB 4 cables are a safe bet.

Be warry of fake 100W cables.

 

An example to such cable: https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Thunderbolt-Cable-USB-C-Meters/dp/B0725DW6D3/

35 minutes ago, I_am_so_Internet said:

Which ones are interchangeable?

Aftermarket fast chargers should be better in this regard since they are made with wide range of devices in mind.

Though be warned that cheaply made chargers are fire + electrocution hazard.

They typically have issues adequately separating the primary and secondary part of the circuit - which is really bad and dangerous.

 

An example to such charger: https://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Wall-Mount-Multiple-Outlets/dp/B08P41TMX8/

[JogerJ]

When USB was invented, it wasn't meant to be used for delivering power but to transfer data. Some devices like USB drives require power to function so the USB had four lines within a cable (VDD, Ground, Data+, Data-). Incidentally devices like phones as they get smarter require not only more power but also ability to transfer data to other devices with a cable (remember back then old Nokia phones would have a DC input for charging and a separate data port). So then phone manufacturers piggybacked on USB for charging and data transfer. As phones are using more power, so does the standard mature to keep up and we get various protocols to deliver more power than the standard 5V/0.5A USB initially used. Manufacturers got creative and used the data lines of the USB to negotiate a power delivery protocol between the charger brick and the device.

 

There's pretty much two ways of increasing the power delivered to your devices, either increase the voltage or increase the current. Today there are 3 families of fast charging protocols that matters:

• USB PD: an open and universal standard by USB consortium. It's great that everything is compatible as long as it's rated for it. Since most arguably all phones use USB nowadays (except Apple, for now), it's the only standard that should matter. Unfortunately the standard only came much later as different companies within the consortium could not agree on how the standard should be defined while the early specifications did not quite match the needs for efficient fast charging, so not many initially adopted it. Remember how Apple got so much backlash when they introduced made for iPhone certification on lightning connectors so people stop using third-party cables while arguing that it blows up people's phones, because there really wasn't a standard to follow before (USB PD was then only very recently formalized). They also couldn't just wait around for the standard to catch up, hence companies came up with their own proprietary standards;
  • PPS is an extension to USB PD specified in USB PD rev 3.x (not to be confused with USB 3.x) which allows fine tuning of voltage delivered in small increments (20 mV). 
• QuickCharge: Qualcomm's fast charging standard, usually found on phones with Qualcomm chips but also others. QC worked by increasing the voltage the adapter sends to the phone, so most cables including older ones might work even though it's not rated for it. For marketing purposes, manufacturers license and rebrand them to like TurboPower (Motorola), Mi Fast Charge (Xiaomi), Adaptive Fast Charging (Samsung), BoostMaster (Asus), Dual-Engine Fast Charging (Vivo), which honestly sucks because it adds more confusion to what's essentially the same standard, but hey it gets people to buy directly from them instead of third-parties.
• VOOC: A different protocol by Oppo. In the early days, raising the voltage means more heat due to voltage conversion that needs to happen (12V from the charger needs to be adapted to 3.7V battery). So instead, VOOC increased the current instead of voltage delivered. This means less heat will be generated by the voltage conversion but you need thicker cables to prevent it from burning as DC current generates lot of heat in the cables (which is why mains power uses AC to transmit electricity instead of DC). This is why they need different cables which aren't compatible with the other 2 standards. VOOC was then licensed Dash Charge (OnePlus), and SuperCharge (Huawei). 

It only gets even more confusing as these standards are updated to incorporate new functions (e.g. QC 3.0 is compatible with USB PD) while you also need to keep track of which standard is backwards compatible to which and also some devices that support multiple standards.

 

Imo the only standard that you should look for nowadays is USB PD PPS. The standard has definitely matured and seen widespread adoption. Even faster chargers are not so appealing anymore due to concerns of extended battery life and the compatibility USB PD offers are just more appealing than having a proprietary charger just for your phone. The current trend is high power USB PD (PPS) bricks that can charge your laptops and phones with a single brick.

[I_am_so_Internet]

All of your replies are fantastic, and help me and other to understand this issue.

JogerJ's post above is already a great explanation to group together and explain these standards but, is there some place where all these standards are definitively listed, where we could see things like interoperability (same standard - different name) and cable requirements, etc？It would be cool if someone could tests relative speeds too. Maybe that's for Linus for figure out in his new test lab?

 

 

 

Google doesn't seem to come up with anything.

[I_am_so_Internet]

One thing I wanted to add is that all these standards also have different versions, which add a whole other level of complexity!

[cmndr]

USB-C isn't perfect but it's SO MUCH  BETTER than what we had before it doesn't matter.

Seriously, I've sorted through junk drawers with 30 different chargers for different things. Here and now those can all be replaced by ONE adapter and ONE cord.

If you're traveling, you can get away with ONE adapter and ONE cord.

Yeah, you might not get "optimal" if you're haphazzard about things but you'll still get "good enough" which is... good enough. If you're worried... stick a piece of colored tape around your "best" charging cables and another color around things supporting thunderbolt.

[hishnash]

37 minutes ago, I_am_so_Internet said:

One thing I wanted to add is that all these standards also have different versions, which add a whole other level of complexity!

The extra killer is cables.  Chargers tend to have some markings on them you can normally use to sort of figure out what version of USB-C PD they might support but cables it is a complete mystery if they will support it and if the devices on both ends will agree that they are good enough of if they will instead opt to select a lower power charging mode.. I understand why they need to make this choice you don't want a laptop attempting to pull 240W through an ultra thin 5W rated cable but the fact that the cables have less info about on there power delivery than they do data rates (and most cables don't even have data info marked) makes it impossible. 

[hishnash]

5 minutes ago, cmndr said:

If you're traveling, you can get away with ONE adapter and ONE cord.

you can but you might well need a good adaptor and a good cord.  My main pain point here is there is not standard or even expectation that you should label cables with thier PD support and thickness and weight are not always a good way of guessing this. 

[cmndr]

1 minute ago, hishnash said:

you can but you might well need a good adaptor and a good cord.  My main pain point here is there is not standard or even expectation that you should label cables with thier PD support and thickness and weight are not always a good way of guessing this. 

You can get a 60W adapter for something like $30ish. That's overkill for phones and laptops and "adequate" for most laptops, especially travel oriented laptops (thinner, lighter, battery life optimized).

Charging something ULTRA FAST at 240W might be nice but realistically that's going to be somewhat of an edge case if you're cable to get away with topping off your devices before heading out and semi-occasionally charging things as needed. The hypothetical "ohh no it's dead, I have 5 minutes to charge" use case isn't THAT common. I've only had it happen with a pair of headphones that usually lasts a week but was left on. It charged in 5 minutes with a weak charger.

Also, if you bring a "proper" laptop charger you can use that for all your other stuff as well.

[hishnash]

1 minute ago, cmndr said:

You can get a 60W adapter for something like $30ish. That's overkill for phones and laptops and "adequate" for most laptops, especially travel oriented laptops (thinner, lighter, battery life optimized).

Not all 60W chargers will support the full range of USB-C PD so they may end up charchign your phone at ultra low speeds as they support a high power charging for the laptop and then fall back to ultra low power. The standards do not require you to support every single power bracket charges can pick and choose what voltage ranges they will support as long as they support the very base voltage. Many OEM laptop chargers do this to save on money and validation costs. 

[cmndr]

That's probably true (0 reason to not believe you) but I've yet to encounter any issues that affected me and I've NOT been careful at all, other than generally ensuring that what I use is USB-C to USB-C and my battery banks/chargers mention PD support. 30W is enough for small devices, possibly overkill (10W might be enough) and most of the time I'm using a laptop it's plugged in anyway.

[Pickles von Brine]

As someone who worked at a computer repair shop for years. These damn standards drive me nuts. So many times we needed a power brick for something... 

[tikker]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:23 AM, hishnash said:

Not all 60W chargers will support the full range of USB-C PD so they may end up charchign your phone at ultra low speeds as they support a high power charging for the laptop and then fall back to ultra low power. The standards do not require you to support every single power bracket charges can pick and choose what voltage ranges they will support as long as they support the very base voltage. Many OEM laptop chargers do this to save on money and validation costs. 

They can't freely pick and choose the supported voltages if they want to comply with the specificiation. That would go against the idea of a unified charging scheme. The latest (didn't check older documents) USB-PD spec lays out required supported modes for a compliant charger if they advertise to support a certain wattage.

Quote

[abridged a bit by me]
10. Power Rules
10.1 Introduction
This section specifies a set of rules that Sources and Sinks Shall follow.

The PDP Rating is a manufacturer declared value placed on packaging to help the user understand the capabilities of a charger or the size of charger required to power their device.

The Source Power rules define a PDP to provide a simple way to tell the user about the capabilities of their power adapter or device. PDP Rating is akin to the wattage rating of a light bulb – bigger numbers mean more capability.

The Sink Power rules define a PDP to provide a simple way to tell the user which Sources will provide adequate power for their Sink.

10.2.2 Normative Voltages and Currents
The Voltages and currents an SPR Source with a PDP Rating of x Watts Shall support are as defined in Table 10-2.

 

SPR = Source Power Rule

PDP = PD Power.

Higher powers are considered a superset, so they must also be capable of delivering lower powers. A compliant 60 W charger will at least have to support 5V/3A, 9V/3A, 15V/3A and 20V/3A. If it doesn't, it won't be a compliant charger. They can support additional voltages besides the normative ones, however, as the pages thereafter go into.

[hishnash]

18 hours ago, tikker said:

A compliant 60 W charger will at least have to support 5V/3A, 9V/3A, 15V/3A and 20V/3A. If it doesn't, it won't be a compliant charger. They can support additional voltages besides the normative ones, however, as the pages thereafter go into.

And the current state is many chargers are not fully complaint nothing at all requires them to even get certification at all, all they need to do is charge the device they ship with.

Im not envy sure the new rules from the EU will require these chargers to be fully USB-PD complaint as long as they meet the minim spec the vendors can just right down the higher power spec as a custom addition (eg they can just do a 21V/3A rather than 20/3A) then they can just label it as a 5V/3A USB-C + `brand-name-hear-for-custom-hack`. Supporting all the different voltage ranges increases cost and complexity.  

[tikker]

3 hours ago, hishnash said:

And the current state is many chargers are not fully complaint nothing at all requires them to even get certification at all, all they need to do is charge the device they ship with.

That may be true. Such a situation would too slowly resolve itself, if at all, which is why the directive that makes it mandatory for a range of devices to implement USB-PD got accepted.

3 hours ago, hishnash said:

Im not envy sure the new rules from the EU will require these chargers to be fully USB-PD complaint

If it can charge at more than 5V, 3A or 15 W they'll have to implement USB-PD:

Quote

https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/46755
New Annex (Part I): It requires that mobiles phones and the similar radio devices, if
they are capable to be recharged via wired charging, are equipped with the USB
Type-C receptacle and, if they also require charging at voltages higher than 5 volts or
currents higher than 3 amperes or powers higher than 15 watts , incorporate the USB
Power Delivery charging communication protocol.

If you didn't follow the spec, you didn't implement USB-PD and should be punished for it. That enforcement will be up to the EU.

 

3 hours ago, hishnash said:

as long as they meet the minim spec the vendors can just right down the higher power spec as a custom addition

They cannot, because the directive requires them to implement USB-PD and the spec requires that higher wattage chargers must be capable of the lower normative modes per the spec.

3 hours ago, hishnash said:

(eg they can just do a 21V/3A rather than 20/3A) then they can just label it as a 5V/3A USB-C + `brand-name-hear-for-custom-hack`.

If it's their own charger and/or with their own port then that is fine. As long as they also provide a USB Type-C port that implements USB-PD (which does not allow for voltages higher than 21 V currently, so they don't have much wiggle room there). If you go above 5V/3A you will exceed 15 W and thus per the new directive will have to implement USB-PD and not your own "custom hack".

3 hours ago, hishnash said:

Supporting all the different voltage ranges increases cost and complexity.

They and us will just have to suck it up. The benefits outweigh that in my opinion. Besides, it is and has been around in devices for some time now already. My laptop charger does it all 5V, 9V, 15V all at 3A and 20V (2.5A). It's not hard to implement and not some out-of-the-blue tech that they ask to be implemented.

[hishnash]

2 hours ago, tikker said:

If you didn't follow the spec, you didn't implement USB-PD and should be punished for it. That enforcement will be up to the EU.

This is talking about the device you are charging not the charging brick that ships with it. 

 

[tikker]

14 minutes ago, hishnash said:

This is talking about the device you are charging not the charging brick that ships with it. 

 

Those devices don't have to accept all possible voltages and currents. They simply need to play nice with chargers. The device and charger will negotiate power profiles to determine how it can be charged. For my laptop that negotation arrives at 19V/3A, for my phone the negotiations reveal that it supports fast charging and thus the same charger settles at 9V/1.67A, or 5V/2A if the fast-charge negotiation failed. I can charge my devices with that single laptop charger this way.

[I_am_so_Internet]

Sorry to bring this topic back, but in terms of chargers, does anyone know if there is a truly universal charger? One that will support multiple phone brands fast charging tech, as well as full PD for laptops and similar devices? 65 watts is enough for me, and I wouldn't mind paying even double of a normal charger if that means I don't have to ever switch chargers between devices to get a fast charge, or charge at all.

 

I have some that support, for instance, PD AND a certain phone brand's fast charge tech, but not other brands, at least not at full speed charging.

 

I just want the convenience we've been promised, and I'm willing to pay for it!

[tikker]

10 hours ago, I_am_so_Internet said:

Sorry to bring this topic back, but in terms of chargers, does anyone know if there is a truly universal charger? One that will support multiple phone brands fast charging tech, as well as full PD for laptops and similar devices? 65 watts is enough for me, and I wouldn't mind paying even double of a normal charger if that means I don't have to ever switch chargers between devices to get a fast charge, or charge at all.

 

I have some that support, for instance, PD AND a certain phone brand's fast charge tech, but not other brands, at least not at full speed charging.

 

I just want the convenience we've been promised, and I'm willing to pay for it!

Not really. That is the entire point of the USB-C charging mandate in the EU.

[Thaldor]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:16 AM, I_am_so_Internet said:

Sorry to bring this topic back, but in terms of chargers, does anyone know if there is a truly universal charger? One that will support multiple phone brands fast charging tech, as well as full PD for laptops and similar devices? 65 watts is enough for me, and I wouldn't mind paying even double of a normal charger if that means I don't have to ever switch chargers between devices to get a fast charge, or charge at all.

 

I have some that support, for instance, PD AND a certain phone brand's fast charge tech, but not other brands, at least not at full speed charging.

 

I just want the convenience we've been promised, and I'm willing to pay for it!

Closest you can get is Quick Charge 4/4+/5 charger, they are compatible with USB-PD and Adaptive Fast Charging (Samsung), BoostMaster (Asus), Mi Fast Charge (Xiaomi) and TurboPower (Motorola) at least to some extent, I would remember reading that Samsung phones support QC only if they have Qualcomms chip, Exynos and no QC support for you.

Problem is at least with QC 4/4+ charger you can get 100W but only with QC, with PD you get only 27W, QC 5 seems to be basicly USB-PD PSS with the backwards compatibility with earlier QC standards so QC and PD devices should get +100W. The bad news are, at least with my fast googling, even QC4 chargers are rare with QC5 chargers giving only extra-extremely-questionable chargers (like 160W 2x USB-C + USB-A QC5 charger for your cars tobacco lighter).

 

MediaTeks Pump Express is also similar that is widely "supported" just as QC, companies just rebrand it but pretty much if there's MediaTeks chip that has fast charge support, it is PE support. OPPOs VOOC is supported by anything made by OPPO, as in One Plus (Dash Charge is VOOC, just rebranded) and Huaweis SuperCharge is probably also supported by anything made by Huawei. USB-PD support on PE is a good question that I don't have answer but I guess as it isn't marketed that there isn't any suppor, VOOC and SuperCharge have no way even possibility to support PD because they work completely differently (instead of rising the voltage, they raise the current).

 

TL;DR: QC4/4+/5 would be optimal for wide range device support to some extent but better just make sure to buy devices that support one branch of fast charging and at least now it looks like USB-PD or QC are the best choices since they have widest support at this moment.