Ming-Chi Kuo: 2023 iPhones to switch to USB-C

[mecarry30]

Welp guess I'll need to get more cables since there are two  usb c cables in my entire household and like 15 lightning ones lol

[thechinchinsong]

On 5/12/2022 at 1:35 AM, RejZoR said:

You won't. Just Lightning connector wasn't the reason you didn't buy iPhone so far. And neither will USB-C suddenly be the reason to decide for one.

Why are you telling me what the reason was I didn't buy an iPhone? I think I know my own reasons.

[RejZoR]

46 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

Why are you telling me what the reason was I didn't buy an iPhone? I think I know my own reasons.

Because just Lightning connector isn't such a big problem as everyone is making it. Refusing to use something like iPhone 13 just because of Lightning would be utterly stupid. Sorry, it just would.

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Because just Lightning connector isn't such a big problem as everyone is making it. Refusing to use something like iPhone 13 just because of Lightning would be utterly stupid. Sorry, it just would.

No, holding off on upgrading because of the charging connector is a reason. If you really wanted an iPhone, you wouldn't care.

 

To me, the lightning connector is what's holding back broader adoption of the iphone. The lightning connector is much more of a failure than firewire. Sure, mechanically these connectors were better, but the lightning connector provides an inferior solution for USB connectivity, inferior for connecting to hdmi or displayport, and inferior to connect to audio systems such as home theatres and carkits.

 

Oh... right, you know what's incredibly embarrassing? Appe's CarPlay audio quality is AWFUL. I was listening to music on CD's in my mother's car, and then plugged in the iphone to listen to the music from iTunes. It was as if CarPlay was ALSO compressing it further. It sure doesn't sound like that on my $20 earbuds on my desktop.

 

[hishnash]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

inferior for connecting to hdmi or displayport, and inferior to connect to audio systems such as home theatres and carkits.

All of those things about USB-C are optional and I would not expect apple to wast space inside the phone to support these.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Appe's CarPlay audio quality is AWFUL

That has nothing to do with lighting and everything to do with CarPlay, lighting has more than enough bandwidth to pipe very hire res digital audio but if Appel did that CarPlay units would need to have ALAC DAC and they do not have this, I expect most (if not all) care play units just use the audio channels reserved for voice calls going back all the way to older hands free... 

In fact if the CarPlay unit informs the iPhone that it does support ALAC the phone will send lossless ALAC audio to it but I expect the number of units that do this are very very few. 

[Arika]

8 minutes ago, hishnash said:

All of those things about USB-C are optional and I would not expect apple to wast space inside the phone to support these.

So Apple gets to fuck over it's customers because they are salty about being made to change away lightning? Yes, per the spec they are "optional" but i think most people nowadays have a minimum expectation of what USB-C does and if Apple doesn't allow those things, people won't be pissed at the USB Consortium for having confusing standard, they will be pissed at Apple because the same port on their other devices (some of which are other Apple products) do things that the iphone can't.

 

But with that said, it does sound like a very Apple thing to do.

[YellowJersey]

Wouldn't be surprised if they release special apple-branded USB-C cables that are the only way to charge at more than a trickle [/snark]

[thechinchinsong]

9 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Because just Lightning connector isn't such a big problem as everyone is making it. Refusing to use something like iPhone 13 just because of Lightning would be utterly stupid. Sorry, it just would.

Why? Just because I find adapters annoying and don't want different cables for my portable electronics makes it a stupid reason? It's certainly not a big problem for most people, but it's a matter of convenience for me that stops me from purchasing an iPhone.

[RejZoR]

46 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

Why? Just because I find adapters annoying and don't want different cables for my portable electronics makes it a stupid reason? It's certainly not a big problem for most people, but it's a matter of convenience for me that stops me from purchasing an iPhone.

There are literally cables that end with microUSB/USB-C/Ligtning if you have so many different devices that you constantly need to charge everywhere. Or just dual USB-C and Lightning. There are also magnetic universal ones. Whining over +800€ device because of a cable for 10€ that can fix your "problem" is a bit funny. But whatever, like I said, if this little problem is such a massive problem, you'll surely find 500 other reasons that will bother you so much with iPhone, thus me making the claim you'll never buy one anyway.

 

I was avoiding iPhones because I've been constantly reading how everything is literally the worst there can be with pretty much everything. After I was so fed up with Android's bullshit and Google's creepy shit, I decided to just go with it no matter what and I'll deal with it as I "see" the problems with it. Turns out, 3/4 of "horror scary stories" by people online are utter bullshit. Sure, iPhones and iOS have few weird Apple specific quirks, but other than that, living with one is pretty much exactly the same as living with an Android phone. Minus dumb garbage software support and idiotic performance issues if you don't factory reset your phone basically every year.

[Roswell]

I’d rather keep lightning… it’s physically a superior connector. 
 

Snap, drop or whatever a lightning cable while it’s in the phone and you end up with possibly a broken cable. Do the same thing with USB-C and you end up with possibly a broken charging port on the phone instead.

[Monkey Dust]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:55 PM, lostcattears said:

Looks like I will be keeping my iphone 7 plus for 1 more year then...

I have an 11, and I am doing the same. One charging cable to rule them all!

 

When Nintendo has relented, and even Apple themselves have relented on the iPad, their reluctance to switch to USB-C on the iPhone is baffling.

[captain_to_fire]

On 5/13/2022 at 12:24 AM, Commodus said:

but it does eliminate one of those "I won't buy an iPhone until..." checklist items.

I'm pretty sure even if Apple does switch to USB C for the iPhones, there would still be people who "I won't buy an iPhone unless I can sideload apps without jailbreaking..." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Personally two of my biggest complaints with iOS is that I still can't arrange apps and folders however I want. Another thing is that an app folder takes way too much screen real estate when opened be it from the app tray or the app folder I make

Spoiler

 

[RejZoR]

29 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I'm pretty sure even if Apple does switch to USB C for the iPhones, there would still be people who "I won't buy an iPhone unless I can sideload apps without jailbreaking..." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Personally two of my biggest complaints with iOS is that I still can't arrange apps and folders however I want. Another thing is that an app folder takes way too much screen real estate when opened be it from the app tray or the app folder I make

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And when they do that, they'll be "I won't buy until they add themes". And when they'll add that, they'll want ability to flash custom ROM's. They'll just always find something.

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

And when they do that, they'll be "I won't buy until they add themes". And when they'll add that, they'll want ability to flash custom ROM's. They'll just always find something.

The thing is that one can already download custom themes and icon packs in iOS without jailbreaking.

 

 

 

[RejZoR]

14 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

The thing is that one can already download custom themes and icon packs in iOS without jailbreaking.

 

 

 

So, why are then people still bitching about this? I never cared about them even on Android because 99% of them are shit, but people are still whining over this even now. Hm.

[thechinchinsong]

 

Quote

There are literally cables that end with microUSB/USB-C/Ligtning if you have so many different devices that you constantly need to charge everywhere. Or just dual USB-C and Lightning. There are also magnetic universal ones. Whining over +800€ device because of a cable for 10€ that can fix your "problem" is a bit funny. But whatever, like I said, if this little problem is such a massive problem, you'll surely find 500 other reasons that will bother you so much with iPhone, thus me making the claim you'll never buy one anyway.

I mean that's true, but its a hassle. I think when a device is several hundred dollars, I have a right to complain about the smallest faults and problems, even when it is just a small hassle. I wouldn't mind if Apple sticks with lightning on their SE models just like I don't care that Android still has cheap micro-usb phones, but when you're paying $500+ dollars or whatever high price, I expect top notch design and service, which means usb-c in my opinion.

 

Quote

I was avoiding iPhones because I've been constantly reading how everything is literally the worst there can be with pretty much everything. After I was so fed up with Android's bullshit and Google's creepy shit, I decided to just go with it no matter what and I'll deal with it as I "see" the problems with it. Turns out, 3/4 of "horror scary stories" by people online are utter bullshit. Sure, iPhones and iOS have few weird Apple specific quirks, but other than that, living with one is pretty much exactly the same as living with an Android phone. Minus dumb garbage software support and idiotic performance issues if you don't factory reset your phone basically every year.

I mean for me, I've always thought that I wouldn't mind iPhones or Android. In fact, most of my friends use iPhones and I can appreciate how convenient they are.  I've simply stuck with Android since I haven't needed to upgrade my phone in a couple years now and its the phone I was given as a gift. I honestly don't have a problem with any software at all. Even the apps on Android that I have that aren't available on iOS that don't have iOS equivalents I don't even mind giving up since I honestly don't even use them that much. Its precisely since I don't care about using Android or iOS that makes the hardware matter more for me. Apple has objectively the best hardware out there except for a couple things like expandable storage, reparability, and the lightning port. Of those three, expandable storage and reparability on Android is basically just as bad as iPhone now so the only thing that was holding me back is lightning. But now that Apple is rolling out better repair options and possibly moving to usb-c, its a great time and great reason for me to switch. 

[Paul Thexton]

I’m a big fan of the idea of having one connector type. But USB-C cables are frustrating. When there’s no required visual indicator as to what the cable can and cannot do, then something somewhere is fundamentally flawed IMO.

 

I have one USB-C cable that refuses to charge an Anker power bank for example, but works for charging literally anything else. I have no bloody idea why that is.

 

Then you have the issue of knowing whether the cable can carry DisplayPort as Jonathan mentioned in a recent MacAddress video. I’m sure there’s likely to be a bunch of other potentially confusing scenarios either now or in the future too.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

 

I mean that's true, but its a hassle. I think when a device is several hundred dollars, I have a right to complain about the smallest faults and problems, even when it is just a small hassle. I wouldn't mind if Apple sticks with lightning on their SE models just like I don't care that Android still has cheap micro-usb phones, but when you're paying $500+ dollars or whatever high price, I expect top notch design and service, which means usb-c in my opinion.

See this is one of those issues where "people will keep buying trash because they don't understand the consequences."

 

Big companies see "people prefer the lighting cable, we don't need USB-C", or "There is no demand for USB-C, see our micro-usb phones outsell USB-C"

 

Historically, in nearly every case:

1) New product comes out

2) Competing cheaper product comes out

3) Cheaper product outsells the original product

4) New product comes out with a better, more expensive version

5) People keep buying the cheap product, because it does what they want

6) Cheaper product becomes the industry standard

7) The new product is forced to either cheapen itself to win back market share, or cease manufacturing

8) Cheaper product becomes the only version, and the prices are cranked up until people complain

9) Cheaper product is now the "new product", and another competing product comes out

Go to to step 3.

 

This is how Betamax/VHS, DVD/DVD-R/DVD+R/DVD-RAM, HDDVD/Blueray, and numerous flash media formats went until we standardized on SDCards for removable device storage. The "best" product usually loses out to the crappier, cheaper-to-make/cheaper-to-license product. 

 

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

I mean for me, I've always thought that I wouldn't mind iPhones or Android. In fact, most of my friends use iPhones and I can appreciate how convenient they are.

For most people, they shouldn't care one bit about the device they are using if they aren't doing anything but phone calls. As soon as you get into text messaging, iPhone is superior. Apps? iPhone is superior. Developer tools? Apple. 

 

Like it I were to suggest anything here. The only reason Android survived past 1.x was because of Google's willingness to lose money on it at any cost (see the Java lawsuit.) A more sane Google would have ceased Android immediately and probably bought Symbian, or Meego/Sailfish or BlackBerry. The sad reality is that Apple, quite literately got everything right, when Android was about eating Blackberry's market, when blackberry/corporate users really wanted the iPhone. You can tell this was the plan from a lot of early Android prototypes.

 

There was literately nothing appealing about Android then, and a lot of those early mistakes by Google, are still in the product. Google had the unfortunate situation of being a Linux shop with no actual "Linux OS" that works on a mobile device. Apple on the other hand simply created a new "desktop manager" (in the context of Linux) or new shell (in the context of Windows) that was oriented to mobile usage. When you buy an iphone, you literately have a real computer that has a touch interface. All the other options? they are toys designed by people who have no concept of user experience. It's taken years to catch up to iphone in the places that matter, but the underlying API's, incompatible binaries between devices, let alone platforms (eg Android Phone, Tablet, and SmartTV) are still a mess, and Android is more than 5 years behind in places like AR (eg ARKit is what everyone is de-facto using if they are not using ultra-expensive mocap suits. ARCore does none of this, not even remotely close, and no Android devices come with the required cameras to do so.)

 

 

[Paul Thexton]

2 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I've simply stuck with Android since I haven't needed to upgrade my phone in a couple years now and its the phone I was given as a gift.

I originally went with Android as I liked the idea of writing my own apps to do exactly what I wanted them to do.
 

In reality I never even did that, and yet it kept me “locked in” to the idea of using Android for a long time. I switched to iPhone with the 12 mini, mainly for purely subjective things about Android that were just beginning to really annoy me. 
 

I wouldn’t rule out a switch back in future though, depends entirely on what I want at the time.

[Paul Thexton]

10 minutes ago, Kisai said:

There was literately nothing appealing about Android then, and a lot of those early mistakes by Google, are still in the product.

This is a fair point. I gave all early smartphones a miss and continued using Nokias until around Android KitKat which was the first Android version I tried which I didn’t immediately hate.

 

Edit: The above isn’t 100% true, I’ve just remembered that I had a Blackberry immediately prior to moving to Android 

[hishnash]

10 hours ago, Arika S said:

Yes, per the spec they are "optional" but i think most people nowadays have a minimum expectation of what USB-C does and if Apple doesn't allow those things, people won't be pissed at the USB Consortium for having confusing standard, they will be pissed at Apple because the same port on their other devices (some of which are other Apple products) do things that the iphone can't.

The things you expect of USB-C if a phone are already handled by lighting, regular consumers are not pushing large files over wired connections from thier iPhones. 

Passive HDMI passthrough is very much not a common USB-C feature. Many laptops don't even support the full display port over USB-C on all of there ports and most GPUs with USB-C are even more limited in the feature set that is supported. 

[captain_to_fire]

13 hours ago, RejZoR said:

So, why are then people still bitching about this? I never cared about them even on Android because 99% of them are shit, but people are still whining over this even now. Hm.

It's one of those features that Apple didn't talk about during their iOS 14 keynote if I'm not mistaken. This isn't like during the iOS 8 launch where Craig Federighi talked about swipe typing and custom keyboards.

[Monkey Dust]

20 hours ago, Paul Thexton said:

I’m a big fan of the idea of having one connector type. But USB-C cables are frustrating. When there’s no required visual indicator as to what the cable can and cannot do, then something somewhere is fundamentally flawed IMO.

 

I have one USB-C cable that refuses to charge an Anker power bank for example, but works for charging literally anything else. I have no bloody idea why that is.

 

Then you have the issue of knowing whether the cable can carry DisplayPort as Jonathan mentioned in a recent MacAddress video. I’m sure there’s likely to be a bunch of other potentially confusing scenarios either now or in the future too.

Yep, the USB-C standard is a mess. It does mostly work, though, and IMO is a better solution than having lots of different connectors.

 

I guess with retrospect, different coloured ends on the plug and in the sockets to indicate their capabilities would have been good. Probably too late to implement now, though.

[Neoxon]

Mark Gurman (Bloomberg) has backed up the rumor, specifying that Apple is testing a USB-C iPhone & are planning to make the switch. He also adds that Apple is also working on a USB-C-to-Lighting adapter to allow future iPhones to work with older Lightning devices.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-13/apple-plans-to-change-iphone-charging-port-to-meet-new-eu-law

[Commodus]

On 5/14/2022 at 9:12 AM, captain_to_fire said:

I'm pretty sure even if Apple does switch to USB C for the iPhones, there would still be people who "I won't buy an iPhone unless I can sideload apps without jailbreaking..." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Personally two of my biggest complaints with iOS is that I still can't arrange apps and folders however I want. Another thing is that an app folder takes way too much screen real estate when opened be it from the app tray or the app folder I make

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Oh, I'm sure. I've run into more than a few people whose feature requests boil down to "just make an iPhone running Android..." which really means they were never going to get an iPhone in the first place.

 

I definitely know the appeal of fully custom home screen layouts. At the same time, though, I don't think as many people care about this as some enthusiasts think. At the end of the day, many people just want to quickly open an app; they don't stare lovingly at their icon feng shui.