Formula 1

[aboss786]

Anyone thinking which of either Hamilton or Verstappen winning the WDC? Just curious

[SVThuh]

If Mercedes is able to keep the massive speed advantage they found with the "New Power Unit" then Hamilton will likely win another championship.  Redbull is definitely pulling off their gloves though.  Its going to be a very interesting final round for sure.  I'm catching whiffs of "Senna vs Prost" level battling this year.

[bondoao1]

I haven't watched F1 since their return to the track in 2020 due to no longer having cable.

Either way, I hope Ver takes it.

[warmmilk]

realistically I think Hamilton is gonna take it, I don't think Redbull has an answer to the how the Mercedes is performing.  But I really want Max to win just cause Lewis has won 7 almost in a row...  Also his hypocritic whining is annoying

 

edit:  that being said, I honestly think Hamilton is still the better driver. 

[Sarra]

I think Hamilton should win, then retire.

 

I literally stopped watching WRC because of Loeb's incessant winning. That, and Subaru just straight up dropped out, after many disappointing years.

 

Verstappen needs discipline, but he is doing better than several years ago, when he basically crashed into everything that moved.

[Imbadatnames]

On 12/1/2021 at 2:15 AM, warmmilk said:

realistically I think Hamilton is gonna take it, I don't think Redbull has an answer to the how the Mercedes is performing.  But I really want Max to win just cause Lewis has won 7 almost in a row...  Also his hypocritic whining is annoying

 

edit:  that being said, I honestly think Hamilton is still the better driver. 

Hamilton isn’t really a good driver tbh. He’s average but has been parked in the best car. Max competing in the lesser car is much more impressive. 
 

Ferrari are supposedly turning their engines up to 12 though so they might have a shot at a podium. 

[Imbadatnames]

4 hours ago, Sarra said:

I think Hamilton should win, then retire.

 

I literally stopped watching WRC because of Loeb's incessant winning. That, and Subaru just straight up dropped out, after many disappointing years.

 

Verstappen needs discipline, but he is doing better than several years ago, when he basically crashed into everything that moved.

Well he just needs to crash into Hamilton to win this time 

[Sarra]

4 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Well he just needs to crash into Hamilton to win this time 

I doubt that the FIA would let that stand.

[Imbadatnames]

7 hours ago, Sarra said:

I doubt that the FIA would let that stand.

Make it look like a racing incident and it’s been fine multiple times before 

[bondoao1]

20 hours ago, Sarra said:

I think Hamilton should win, then retire.

 

I literally stopped watching WRC because of Loeb's incessant winning. That, and Subaru just straight up dropped out, after many disappointing years.

 

Verstappen needs discipline, but he is doing better than several years ago, when he basically crashed into everything that moved.

So you are saying Max is the next Crashtor Maldonado?

[Quackers101]

Have not cared about the last decade of F1, besides the games (which are a few that are worth it and might be removed).

There is a lot of cool tech though, around F1. Sadly the rules and someone always winning in a way, that is not so enjoyable. Also how so much is on the side of tech or parts and funding. Which it kind of had a lot about it and what it is about.

 

Hopefully new designs and rules will allow a more fair sport and more opportunities for the drivers. Also without it becoming deadly as seen before like when they suddenly "banned all tech for fairness" while it didn't go so well when driving with "dumb" cars. RIP Ayrton Senna a legend and a brazilian national icon.

With all the safety rulings that went in place, and how the designs of newer F1 cars are a lot designed around safety. with "brittle" while strong cars.

 

Right now this is F1 for me. nothing much to see.

 

[Vulkan HeStan]

16 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Hamilton isn’t really a good driver tbh. He’s average but has been parked in the best car.

When did you start watching? Lewis is only in the best car because he is one of the best drivers on the grid.

[Sarra]

3 hours ago, bondoao1 said:

So you are saying Max is the next Crashtor Maldonado?

He looked like it a few years ago. If he keeps not crashing, then maybe not.

[Imbadatnames]

7 hours ago, Vulkan HeStan said:

When did you start watching? Lewis is only in the best car because he is one of the best drivers on the grid.

Around 2000? 
 

Nope it’s because he’s marketable. We’ve seen from the times he hasn’t been in the best car what his level is and it’s somewhere below Jenson button.

[Vulkan HeStan]

5 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Around 2000? 
 

Nope it’s because he’s marketable. We’ve seen from the times he hasn’t been in the best car what his level is and it’s somewhere below Jenson button.

The Lewis Hamilton that beat the reigning world champion in the same car in his rookie season?

 

The Lewis Hamilton who has won a race in every season he's competed, even when he had a dog of a car in 2009 and 2013?

 

The Lewis Hamilton who beat Jenson Button in 2 of the 3 seasons they were teammates?

 

That Lewis Hamilton? Yeah, just marketable, not at all the most successful driver of his generation

[Imbadatnames]

4 hours ago, Vulkan HeStan said:

The Lewis Hamilton that beat the reigning world champion in the same car in his rookie season?

 

The Lewis Hamilton who has won a race in every season he's competed, even when he had a dog of a car in 2009 and 2013?

 

The Lewis Hamilton who beat Jenson Button in 2 of the 3 seasons they were teammates?

 

That Lewis Hamilton? Yeah, just marketable, not at all the most successful driver of his generation

He beat a sandbagged alonso. The same alonso that left because of the blatant favouritism towards Hamilton. 
 

That “dog of a car” that was still at worst a close 3rd best car? He’s never been in a car that wasn’t competitive. Schumacher WON the WDC in a Benetton that was at most the 4th best and then won races and was competitive in probably the worst Ferrari ever built amongst other insane BS accomplishments. 
 

He placed 4th, 5th and 4th. Button at least got a 2nd. 
 

He’s not successful the car is. Put every driver in the Haas for a fastest lap and he’d come around 10th. Winning WDC in an era with no competition and the best car by a country mile means FA.

[warmmilk]

On 12/9/2021 at 4:31 AM, Imbadatnames said:

Hamilton isn’t really a good driver tbh. He’s average but has been parked in the best car. Max competing in the lesser car is much more impressive. 
 

Ferrari are supposedly turning their engines up to 12 though so they might have a shot at a podium. 

I understand if you're not a fan of Hamilton, I'm not a fan of Hamilton, but to say he "isn't really a good driver", even in the context of F1, is flat out denial.  I'm not claiming he's the best ever, but he is definitely in the top 10 of all time.  On the current grid given equal cars it'd be between Hamilton, Verstappen, and Alonso.

 

as far as Max competing in a lesser car this year, when Max's car is slower Max loses to Lewis.  This whole season there hasn't really been a race when they had equal cars, either the Redbull is faster and Max wins or the Mercedes is faster and Lewis wins.  Only at COTA did it look like the Mercedes was faster but Max still won, but that was down to Max getting lucky on the start (and lets face it, he got lucky with how he managed to pull that off) and pit stop strategy, not Max's driving through 99.9% of the race (.1% being Max's start).  If there was even one more lap in that race the odds go to 60/40 in my book, in favor of Max cause he was still out in front.  

 

Anyway, the main reason I said I still think Lewis is a better driver than Max is how they perform when they're mid pack or lower, Lewis seems to work his way through traffic better than Max does.

 

 

[Imbadatnames]

5 hours ago, warmmilk said:

I understand if you're not a fan of Hamilton, I'm not a fan of Hamilton, but to say he "isn't really a good driver", even in the context of F1, is flat out denial.  I'm not claiming he's the best ever, but he is definitely in the top 10 of all time.  On the current grid given equal cars it'd be between Hamilton, Verstappen, and Alonso.

 

as far as Max competing in a lesser car this year, when Max's car is slower Max loses to Lewis.  This whole season there hasn't really been a race when they had equal cars, either the Redbull is faster and Max wins or the Mercedes is faster and Lewis wins.  Only at COTA did it look like the Mercedes was faster but Max still won, but that was down to Max getting lucky on the start (and lets face it, he got lucky with how he managed to pull that off) and pit stop strategy, not Max's driving through 99.9% of the race (.1% being Max's start).  If there was even one more lap in that race the odds go to 60/40 in my book, in favor of Max cause he was still out in front.  

 

Anyway, the main reason I said I still think Lewis is a better driver than Max is how they perform when they're mid pack or lower, Lewis seems to work his way through traffic better than Max does.

 

 

Look at his form when he hasn’t been in a too 10 car. Look at when he actually had a competent teammate who was allowed to compete with him. He’s just lost the WDC to an inferior car with a better driver. He’s not top 10 he’s roughly equal to button. IE he can win when he’s in the best car with no completion
 

Lewis works his way through better because he has a better car. It’s easy to pass people when you can pass 5 people on one straight. 

[warmmilk]

11 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Look at his form when he hasn’t been in a too 10 car. Look at when he actually had a competent teammate who was allowed to compete with him. He’s just lost the WDC to an inferior car with a better driver. He’s not top 10 he’s roughly equal to button. IE he can win when he’s in the best car with no completion
 

Lewis works his way through better because he has a better car. It’s easy to pass people when you can pass 5 people on one straight. 

you say that like Max won on driver merit.  As much as I wanted Max to win, this was complete bullsh*t.  He's the WDC in the same way that OJ Simpson isn't a murderer.

 

also, I'm starting to dislike Max cause he's turning into a whiny little girl like Lewis is, which is the main reason I dislike Lewis.

 

Sure when Lewis has a competent teammate he doesn't dominate, but he still does well... very well.   Out of curiosity, assuming equal cars, where would you rank Lewis out of the 2021 driver line up?

 

 

edit:

I guess todays final lap bs equalized the bs that happened at Silverstone...

[Imbadatnames]

6 hours ago, warmmilk said:

you say that like Max won on driver merit.  As much as I wanted Max to win, this was complete bullsh*t.  He's the WDC in the same way that OJ Simpson isn't a murderer.

 

also, I'm starting to dislike Max cause he's turning into a whiny little girl like Lewis is, which is the main reason I dislike Lewis.

 

Sure when Lewis has a competent teammate he doesn't dominate, but he still does well... very well.   Out of curiosity, assuming equal cars, where would you rank Lewis out of the 2021 driver line up?

 

 

edit:

I guess todays final lap bs equalized the bs that happened at Silverstone...

He won it because Mercedes chose not to come in for tyres twice. He’s also won the most races and lead the most laps. He’s also been screwed by the stewards because of favouritism to Mercedes’ all season including the first lap yesterday. 
 

Probably middle of the pack around 10th. He’s at least below both RB drivers, both Ferrari drivers and Norris. Then it’s a toss up for the next up to 10 places. 

[warmmilk]

10 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

He won it because Mercedes chose not to come in for tyres twice. He’s also won the most races and lead the most laps. He’s also been screwed by the stewards because of favouritism to Mercedes’ all season including the first lap yesterday. 
 

Probably middle of the pack around 10th. He’s at least below both RB drivers, both Ferrari drivers and Norris. Then it’s a toss up for the next up to 10 places. 

so how does Mercedes deciding to keep him out instead of pitting make Max a better driver?  and RB on fresh softs is definitely faster than Merc on old hards, so the only lap that Max was faster in this race, Max had the faster car.  I guess the first lap is arguable but in my book one dive bomb doesn't make you faster

 

lol, middle of the pack... you're hilarious.  By that logic Max is nothing special either and only won because he had a faster car.  How do you justify saying Max is so good when Lewis is just middle of the pack?  Max has only won when he had the faster car, same reasoning you use for why Lewis is nothing special.

[Imbadatnames]

3 hours ago, warmmilk said:

so how does Mercedes deciding to keep him out instead of pitting make Max a better driver?  and RB on fresh softs is definitely faster than Merc on old hards, so the only lap that Max was faster in this race, Max had the faster car.  I guess the first lap is arguable but in my book one dive bomb doesn't make you faster

 

lol, middle of the pack... you're hilarious.  By that logic Max is nothing special either and only won because he had a faster car.  How do you justify saying Max is so good when Lewis is just middle of the pack?  Max has only won when he had the faster car, same reasoning you use for why Lewis is nothing special.

For a start Hamilton could have shut the door on max at the turn he overtook on, the merc is a lot faster on the straights are you saw on the second back straight where he gained a good half a second on max so he’d have kept the place at least until S3 where a good driver would make the car wide and make it hard to overtake. Overall because Hamilton can only win when he has EASILY the best car and can’t drive for shit compared to actual good drivers you see how he has no ability to make his car wide and drive defensively. Because he’s never had to, he’s just out his foot to the floor and the car has done the work for him. 
 

Max has had a good car but the RB is not near the merc and isn’t too far ahead of the cars just behind. I also never said he was a great driver, above average but not great. I don’t think he’s the fastest driver on the grid either just the one who’s had a car that can compete with merc and the balls to make up for the rest. He’s a better driver than Hamilton but Hamilton is only an average driver. It’s not like he’s 

freaking Senna or something. 

[Heliian]

Next season is going to be a banger. 

[warmmilk]

6 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

For a start Hamilton could have shut the door on max at the turn he overtook on, the merc is a lot faster on the straights are you saw on the second back straight where he gained a good half a second on max so he’d have kept the place at least until S3 where a good driver would make the car wide and make it hard to overtake. Overall because Hamilton can only win when he has EASILY the best car and can’t drive for shit compared to actual good drivers you see how he has no ability to make his car wide and drive defensively. Because he’s never had to, he’s just out his foot to the floor and the car has done the work for him. 
 

Max has had a good car but the RB is not near the merc and isn’t too far ahead of the cars just behind. I also never said he was a great driver, above average but not great. I don’t think he’s the fastest driver on the grid either just the one who’s had a car that can compete with merc and the balls to make up for the rest. He’s a better driver than Hamilton but Hamilton is only an average driver. It’s not like he’s 

freaking Senna or something. 

do you have any idea how much difference tires make?  sure Lewis caught up to him on one of the straights, but once they have to turn the tires just aren't capable of matching the speed, let alone passing.  as far as making his car wide and not letting Max overtake, he can't take the same kinds of risks Checo took because if both Max and Lewis crash out, Max takes the championship.  Honestly I was surprised Lewis took the risks he did when trying to pass Checo, cause remember if the crash Max wins.  If I was in Lewis's shoes I would have just waited for next laps easy pass in the DRS zone instead of fighting the whole lap.

 

I know Senna was a good driver and all, but I don't like the guy.  He was a whiney b*tch like Hamilton is, he had a massive god complex, and he drove like an asshole... his method of passing was you either yield and change your line to let me pass or we both crash.  Thats not skill, thats bully and god complex and spoiled brat entitlement all wrapped into one (kinda like Lewis's "tHatS daNGeRoUS dRiVInG" comment when he was trying to pass Checo).  Prost > Senna all day every day.  And for the record, most of Senna's wins came when he had a dominate car too...  He was still a good driver tho, no 2 ways about that.  But also an a$$hole. 

 

So like Lewis, I don't like him but he's a great driver.  Anyway, its obvious we're not gonna agree on this, so I guess I'm done with the Hamilton debate.

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, warmmilk said:

and he drove like an asshole... his method of passing was you either yield and change your line to let me pass or we both crash.

Dunno, feels like a "yes and no". then again a lot of rule changes has happened through the years.

there has always been some elements of "pushing it to the limit" and "try not to crash" and some might push it as far as they can and hopefully its under "controlled" situations. To other parts of their racing is quite dangerous overall, and as seen with kimi how pushing it can be "safely controlled" in pushing that limit and I guess as well with more "modern race tracks" which might leave more room to be less deadly, or when it comes objects, or corners to crash into?