Linux sucks, please change my mind!

[jde3]

You can.. sometimes.. sometimes you have a vendor requirement and it's law but you can do your own thing. I find many people though stuck in middle management with no way out of this. And not to go all conspiracy on you but RHEL does this by design.. it's not a mistake. They are masters of selling closed open source.

 

And ya, Alpine or Gentoo, sure.. but you get further into your own custom environment at that point and you'll suffer from maintaining it. One of the only breath of fresh air OS's out there is FreeBSD but it's not Linux so that suffers some consequences from that too.

As for the state of Linux now.. most of it.. yeah, as someone that knows it really really well.. I'd say yes, it sucks. (it sucks less than Windows tho omg)

[Slo2020]

Linux really sucks. I'm Windows user since Windows 95 on 486 CPU and i stopped using Linux.

 

- No Fraps

- No MSI Afterburner

- No software for mouse, RGB etc.

- Sucks for gaming

- Almost all software made for Windows

- Drivers

[Quaestor]

On 10/12/2021 at 12:02 PM, cretsiah said:

how old is this laptop?

what are the specs of this laptop?

what kind of games are you trying to play on this laptop?

It's an E-585 (R5-2500u, 8Gb 2400 ram, 256Gb Nvme boot drive and i added a 500Gb MX5 from crucial)

At the time of buying, i really wanted a solid little workhorse for a low price and got exactly what i expected.

To what i'm playing on this thing... mostly stuff like Diablo2, Baldurs gate, Borderlands and Unreal Tournament, nothing fancy^^

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, Slo2020 said:

Linux really sucks. I'm Windows user since Windows 95 on 486 CPU and i stopped using Linux.

 

- No Fraps

- No MSI Afterburner

- No software for mouse, RGB etc.

- Sucks for gaming

- Almost all software made for Windows

- Drivers

I'm not the elitist type but with that attitude, good.

 

Fraps has been unnecessary since Windows XP and doesn't work with DX12 or Vulkan

The are OSS alternatives that do the exact same thing

Yes there is

No it doesn't

Paradoxical fallacy. If almost all software was made for windows then Linux as an OS and a concept wouldn't exist

Drivers ...are almost entirely unnecessary on Linux as they're mostly built right into the kernel

[10leej]

5 hours ago, Slo2020 said:

Linux really sucks. I'm Windows user since Windows 95 on 486 CPU and i stopped using Linux.

 

- No Fraps

- No MSI Afterburner

- No software for mouse, RGB etc.

- Sucks for gaming

- Almost all software made for Windows

- Drivers

• OBS-Studio
• Nvidia your on your own but AMDGPU has plenty of tools for overclocking.
• OpenRGB, mouse tools exist for Razer, Corsair and Logitech gaming mice.
• Only AAA gaming, I've never had a problem outside of anti cheat software due to Steam and Lutris making this way easier than it used to be.
• What did you expect from something that has less than 2% desktop market share?
• Please go into more detail on drivers because the linux model is far superior to windows.

What does Windows do better than Linux? Bare metal legacy support.

[igormp]

1 hour ago, 10leej said:

Nvidia your on your own

GreenWithEnvy is a thing, so you can also cross that from the list.

[WillLTT]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:53 AM, Quaestor said:

Linux sucks, please change my mind!

You dare oppose our glorius leader Anthony?

 

On 10/11/2021 at 11:53 AM, Quaestor said:

To me, this kind of experience calls for one of three responses; either i call it quits and return to Windows (worst option), reinstall Mint and try again, or give another distro a go (which seems best, since Mint sometimes freezes up, that bastard)

Maybe try a different distro? Like Pop OS?

Ive had poor experiences with Linux mint aswell, but my experience with Ubuntu has been great so far apart from the nvidia drivers are a mess sometimes but since there is a safe graphics boot option its fine.

 

Anyway for gaming i would suggest maybe Pop OS?

Anthony has made multiple videos on how to game / use steam on Pop OS on the linus tech tips channel :

 

[cretsiah]

8 hours ago, Quaestor said:

It's an E-585 (R5-2500u, 8Gb 2400 ram, 256Gb Nvme boot drive and i added a 500Gb MX5 from crucial)

At the time of buying, i really wanted a solid little workhorse for a low price and got exactly what i expected.

To what i'm playing on this thing... mostly stuff like Diablo2, Baldurs gate, Borderlands and Unreal Tournament, nothing fancy^^

yeah looking at those specs,

 

that cpu is a tad underpowered  (@ 2ghz base clock) you really want something 2..6ghz or higher

and the ram?? why only 8, with a built-in graphics chip i wouldnt go any lower than 16gig

even with your super fast drive, its only going to hide the flaws/ bottlenecks for so long even with windows

[beace]

If you've read other posts in this thread, I'm pretty sure you see that opinions differ. People say it sucks or rocks for different reasons, and that honestly sums it up - depending on your preferences, desires and circumstances, your OS of choice may be Linux, may be Windows, may be MacOS, may be BSD, may be any of their flavors. It may be absolutely nothing as well, and that's all fine.

 

My two cents is Linux is the best thing I have ever put on a computer. I deliberately chose distros and software that was likely to give me better performance compared to Windows 10, and I got exactly what I asked for. I have not used Linux Mint for a very long time, and did it on a 5-6 years old average laptop so gaming there came down to a few lower-end titles, especially 2D ones I could play with a controller, but everything worked fine. Steam Link worked fine as well, if that matters. Linux Mint did everything I wanted a computer to do - it played games, it let my browser eat more RAM and CPU because they weren't eaten by the OS, it played videos and audio and streamed those when I needed, it supported my Logitech F310 with zero effort put in.

 

Now Arch Linux does the same for me, and even a little more because I put even less resource-hungry software there. I play anything I want except for VR and EAC-protected games, but that's not a issue for me, I got some spare storage for Windows to do just that. With the upcoming Steam Deck and SteamOS (which is based on Arch itself, that's pretty convenient), those gaps may get covered as well; provided that the companies care enough, of course, but that's fine.

 

My personal most favorite is package management. I don't use any GUI solutions for this, I'm simply not used to and don't need to, and it feels a lot easier to put in a command and the name of the package (or 50 packages at once) that I want to put on my machine and it's going to do it all for me. Never have to bother looking for a piece of software, never have to worry about which file to download or click through the installation process opting out of some software that wants to get installed as well or change some of my settings, nothing like that. And a neat feature is making a little file of packages that you want to install and telling your packages to install everything in that file - that can come super handy with reinstalling your entire system and not forgetting a single little app you had there and want to reinstall conveniently.

 

So, Linux may suck for you. Maybe it's your distro in particular. It may even be the way your treat it out of how you treated Windows with some things, and it could really shine if you learned a new way to do some things that sometimes happens to be more fruitful and manageable. Nobody knows.

 

Most importantly, though, you don't have to go for one or the other. You can keep Windows around for things it does better for you, and if there's something Linux does better for you, keep it around for those. Take best of the both worlds if it's there for your use cases.

 

P. S. My Nvidia GPU works flawlessly for my installation, and I use official Nvidia drivers. So, yeah, things differ on and due to a lot of factors.

Edited October 23, 2021 by parasite_avi
Extra point, missed words

[Slo2020]

On 10/13/2021 at 5:11 PM, 10leej said:

• OBS-Studio
• Nvidia your on your own but AMDGPU has plenty of tools for overclocking.
• OpenRGB, mouse tools exist for Razer, Corsair and Logitech gaming mice.
• Only AAA gaming, I've never had a problem outside of anti cheat software due to Steam and Lutris making this way easier than it used to be.
• What did you expect from something that has less than 2% desktop market share?
• Please go into more detail on drivers because the linux model is far superior to windows.

What does Windows do better than Linux? Bare metal legacy support.

Forget my post. Linux is fine. It's more stable for me then Windows and i don't have any problems with Linux. I will try OpenRGB.

 

Ubuntu 21.10 is finally out.

[Master Disaster]

6 hours ago, Slo2020 said:

Forget my post. Linux is fine. It's more stable for me then Windows and i don't have any problems with Linux. I will try OpenRGB.

 

Ubuntu 21.10 is finally out.

C'mon dude, have the courage to stand by your convictions. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion and its OK that your opinion differs from others, that's what drives conversation.

 

As long as you're respectful about it, its OK to disagree and tell others they're wrong. If you think Linux sucks then cool, you're wrong but its OK, that's your entitlement.

 

Don't be the cool kid sheep who's opinion of anything happens to match the opinion of the person you're talking too. Develop your own thoughts and opinions and never be scared of standing by what you believe.

[jde3]

On 10/13/2021 at 2:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

- Almost all software made for Windows

 

Very not true statement. I can't do my job on Windows (Unix sysadmin) because it lacks so much software I need. There are some ways to run emulated Unix programs and utilities on Windows in VM with WSL or Cygwin but they are VERY clunky. Also... they tend to get hit by security software.. One such time I got a call from the security department at work warning me of dangerous software on my system. I was like "Oh? ok lets take care of that.. what is the software." The technician told me it was something called "Netcat". -- I was like NETCAT?! and bust out laughing. The senior security architecht over heard that conversation and head me laughing on the other end of the phone and told him.. no.. it's ok.. ignore that.

(what is netcat, nc? https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?nc )

 

I actually need a Unix workstation like MacOS or Linux because all software really is NOT on windows. It indeed lacks basic Unix functionality.

 

There is also tons of excellent GUI software for Linux that just has no analogue for Windows. Some of it crosses the chasem though.. VLC, OBS, Handbrake or Chrome (KHTML was originally Linux) -- Ever heard of them? Well there is more..

[Slo2020]

Why is Ubuntu more popular then Xubuntu? In Xubuntu you can simply add icons on desktop.

[Alexander Pushkin]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:53 AM, Quaestor said:

To me, this kind of experience calls for one of three responses; either i call it quits and return to Windows (worst option), reinstall Mint and try again, or give another distro a go (which seems best, since Mint sometimes freezes up, that bastard)

 

i hope someone helps me make a decision after this rant XD

Mint has even older software than Ubuntu, it could be a good OS for some types of users, but I wouldn't recommend it for gamers. Please install EndeavorOS. https://endeavouros.com/ I probably have the knowledge to quickly solve any problem you have. If you are interested you can add me via Telegram so I can help you the same day if you have a problem.

[igormp]

51 minutes ago, Slo2020 said:

Why is Ubuntu more popular then Xubuntu? In Xubuntu you can simply add icons on desktop.

Xubuntu is just a fork of ubuntu with xfce as its default DE. You can simply install ubuntu then replace gnome with xfce too.

[Alexander Pushkin]

52 minutes ago, Slo2020 said:

Why is Ubuntu more popular then Xubuntu? In Xubuntu you can simply add icons on desktop.

Xubuntu is a community-maintained derivative of the Ubuntu operating system. The reason Ubuntu is more popular is actually just a result of it being the most common and well known Linux distro. This is the main reason.

 

By the way, you can also have desktop icons in Ubuntu in several ways. Here's one method: https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-desktop-shortcut/

 

On most Linux desktops it is much less cumbersome to create a desktop icon. I've always thought it was a stupid choice for Canonical to choose Gnome over KDE Plasma, but it probably has to do with Qt's licensing. Gnome 2 was an extremely good desktop, I remember it from Ubuntu 10.10 where it was the default desktop.

 

But since Gnome 3 they wanted to go all in on convergence and while Gnome 3 is functional on a desktop it is a strange sight. The top bars are too big and the icons are too big. Because that's how it should be for a touch interface. The Gnome team still hasn't discovered that Gnome is mainly used on the desktop, and that there won't be a big change in this right away.

 

[beace]

14 hours ago, Slo2020 said:

Why is Ubuntu more popular then Xubuntu? In Xubuntu you can simply add icons on desktop.

Not sure why exactly it's more popular, but probably mostly due to the fact that when you look for Ubuntu, you get the basic standard Ubuntu as a result, and it comes with GNOME for desktop environment, which tend to be quite different from most others.

 

Still, if I recall correctly, even Ubuntu's website you can find some information about its various flavors. Similar to Fedara Linux, which also let's you know what other softwares comes with a given flavor, like web browser and all.

 

I have to say that all that desktops environment kinda stuff and software you get with Linux distro is a very minor point. You can install nearly anything one way or another anyway, and it's not likely that you're going to choose the right distro with right software first try. Even if your first distro and its out-of-the-box software suite checks most or all of the boxes for you, your curiosity is very likely to drive you to at least trying other things out.

 

That's the coolest part about Linux distros, I guess - it's a lot easier to swap a lot of the components that make up your operating system than it is on Windows, for example, and it all gives you a very high degree of customization on multiple levels. Don't be averted with one distro or it's flavor - you absolutely do have the power to forge it into something that fits you the most. In a lot cases, with very little hassle, too.

[mijorus]

Yes, it does. 

 

But Windows is boring as hell, that's why I use it

[flindeberg]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:03 PM, Master Disaster said:

Because everything is about as new as possible its pretty common for updates to break things and then you have to spend hours trawling through configs to find the issue and fix it.

Where does this sentiment come from? The last two years I’ve recommended arch-based distributions to friends wanting to try out something a bit more permissive than macOS, and I’ve gotten fewer questions from people running Manjaro or similar as their first Linux distribution than people running PopOS or Ubuntu. The reason, for the empirical sample of my friends, is that ArchWiki is the best resource there is. If you have an issue with PopOS or Ubuntu you are on your own, but with arch you have the wiki and you can usually solve anything that comes up…

[Master Disaster]

33 minutes ago, flindeberg said:

Where does this sentiment come from? The last two years I’ve recommended arch-based distributions to friends wanting to try out something a bit more permissive than macOS, and I’ve gotten fewer questions from people running Manjaro or similar as their first Linux distribution than people running PopOS or Ubuntu. The reason, for the empirical sample of my friends, is that ArchWiki is the best resource there is. If you have an issue with PopOS or Ubuntu you are on your own, but with arch you have the wiki and you can usually solve anything that comes up…

Not exactly true. FTR I am running base Arch, I ran Manjaro for a few days because base Arch gave me an issue I just couldn't solve.

 

1) This is the issue I mentioned above. On as clean install of Arch my 5700XT simply refuses to work with Proton. I followed the Arch Wiki and everything was correct, I spent days troubleshooting and couldn't find the answer. Eventually I switched to Manjaro (which worked OOTB) and asked here for help. Turned out there was an obscure environment variable that needs to be set for Proton to see the Vulkan launchers, its not covered in the Arch wiki and its barely covered online in general. If it wasn't for one person from these forums I doubt I'd of ever found out why.

 

2) I was playing Crash N Sane Trilogy absolutely perfectly for multiple hours then I shut down and went to bed. Next afternoon I fired up my PC, ran Crash and was greeted with a black screen. Nothing changed, I installed no updates to either Steam/Proton or Arch yet it went from playing perfectly to not working at all. Still don't know why and now I have to swap from Wayland to X11 just to play that one game.

 

3) I installed a few system updates, nothing major, just some libraries. Rebooted and was greeted with a "Oops, Something went wrong" message. Its not covered in the Arch Wiki and the only help I could find outside of there was the usual Arch user response of "RTFM". Turns out one Gnome extension I had installed relied on a library that was updated and Gnome was throwing a fit because it thought the dependency was broken.

 

4) Only this morning I turned my PC on and had no sound, it was working fine yesterday, nothing changed between then and when I fired up today yet for whatever reason I had to restart pulseaudio.service & pulseaudio.socket then reboot to get sound back.

 

TBC I'm not disagreeing with you, the Arch Wiki might as well be called the Linux Bilbe however I still stand by my statement, If you want to run Arch you have to expect things are going to break, for seemingly no reason and you might not even be able to look for help at all because you'll probably have no idea what actually broke, never mind the cause.

 

I've been a Linux user for 5 years and an Arch user for 12 months, if something breaks for me I can normally find the issue myself but for a newbie its not a great experience. If something you need help with happens to be not covered in the Wiki are you dare ask for help in the Arch forums all you're going to get is "go read", "do your research" or at best a cryptic string of commands that any Linux newcomer wouldn't have a clue how to understand.

 

With Arch the user is expected to have a certain level of understanding and the distro devs, quite literally, actively say as much.

 

I'm not saying Arch is bad, I happen to believe Arch is the best choice for running Linux. I am saying Arch is bad for a beginner, it will break more often that anything Debian based and the help available is limited to one website, granted its extensive, but its still one site.

[LloydLynx]

10 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Not exactly true. FTR I am running base Arch, I ran Manjaro for a few days because base Arch gave me an issue I just couldn't solve.

 

1) This is the issue I mentioned above. On as clean install of Arch my 5700XT simply refuses to work with Proton. I followed the Arch Wiki and everything was correct, I spent days troubleshooting and couldn't find the answer. Eventually I switched to Manjaro (which worked OOTB) and asked here for help. Turned out there was an obscure environment variable that needs to be set for Proton to see the Vulkan launchers, its not covered in the Arch wiki and its barely covered online in general. If it wasn't for one person from these forums I doubt I'd of ever found out why.

 

2) I was playing Crash N Sane Trilogy absolutely perfectly for multiple hours then I shut down and went to bed. Next afternoon I fired up my PC, ran Crash and was greeted with a black screen. Nothing changed, I installed no updates to either Steam/Proton or Arch yet it went from playing perfectly to not working at all. Still don't know why and now I have to swap from Wayland to X11 just to play that one game.

 

3) I installed a few system updates, nothing major, just some libraries. Rebooted and was greeted with a "Oops, Something went wrong" message. Its not covered in the Arch Wiki and the only help I could find outside of there was the usual Arch user response of "RTFM". Turns out one Gnome extension I had installed relied on a library that was updated and Gnome was throwing a fit because it thought the dependency was broken.

 

4) Only this morning I turned my PC on and had no sound, it was working fine yesterday, nothing changed between then and when I fired up today yet for whatever reason I had to restart pulseaudio.service & pulseaudio.socket then reboot to get sound back.

 

TBC I'm not disagreeing with you, the Arch Wiki might as well be called the Linux Bilbe however I still stand by my statement, If you want to run Arch you have to expect things are going to break, for seemingly no reason and you might not even be able to look for help at all because you'll probably have no idea what actually broke, never mind the cause.

 

I've been a Linux user for 5 years and an Arch user for 12 months, if something breaks for me I can normally find the issue myself but for a newbie its not a great experience. If something you need help with happens to be not covered in the Wiki are you dare ask for help in the Arch forums all you're going to get is "go read", "do your research" or at best a cryptic string of commands that any Linux newcomer wouldn't have a clue how to understand.

 

With Arch the user is expected to have a certain level of understanding and the distro devs, quite literally, actively say as much.

 

I'm not saying Arch is bad, I happen to believe Arch is the best choice for running Linux. I am saying Arch is bad for a beginner, it will break more often that anything Debian based and the help available is limited to one website, granted its extensive, but its still one site.

The more moving parts you have, the more chances there are for stuff to break. Full desktop environments try to manage everything, sound, displays, theming, window management, wireless, and pretty much everything else you can think of. And they don't usually even do things the normal way, such as configuring theming in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini like it's suppose to be done, but instead doing it through daemons. You say you use Gnome, which I think might be doing stuff neither of us know about and causing side effects that cause random things to break. 

[lacek]

On 10/11/2021 at 12:03 PM, Arika S said:

No, i agree.

 

source: me, someone who is currently running Linux on her laptop and NAS. it's an absolute pain and full of compromises and really really stupid "workarounds" for things that are meant to be simple.

Thign is that if you want to casually use Linux as a desktop machines, to play games, click facebook, using linux makes no sense. But for power used that has more subtle needs like usable shell, tools that actually have CLI,  ZFS backups, then there there nothing else beyond Linux and BSD.    MacOS would sort of work, as long as costs of maintaining Apple are acceptable.

[lacek]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

Linux really sucks. I'm Windows user since Windows 95 on 486 CPU and i stopped using Linux.

 

- No Fraps

This is something for games? Yes, for games Linux makes little sense.

On 10/13/2021 at 11:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

- No MSI Afterburner

Very niche program, except for gamers who can't afford a better GPU.

On 10/13/2021 at 11:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

- No software for mouse, RGB etc.

Toys for children

On 10/13/2021 at 11:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

- Sucks for gaming

Basically all of the above so far are about gaming. Thjere is plenty of software besides games. And there are Linux-compaticle mouses

On 10/13/2021 at 11:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

- Almost all software made for Windows

Completely not true. Half of AAA games works just fine on Linux, Adobe programs - true they are not Linux - compatible.
I think you have too much of teen youtube gamer perspective.
 

On 10/13/2021 at 11:57 AM, Slo2020 said:

- Drivers

Drivers for cheap stuff - sure. If you want to have a capture card, you buy Maxwell, they work flawlessly. I work in electric engineering and I use Linux, most of the equipment is easier to use from Linux than Windows.     Linux has CLI,  you can easily write and deploy scripts, you have ZFS.  Most of this is doable on Windows, once you convert it to Linux (WSL?), except for ZFS which i totally unavaialble.

 

Is there at all software RAID 5 and 6 for Windows?

[lacek]

On 10/15/2021 at 7:47 PM, jde3 said:

Very not true statement. I can't do my job on Windows (Unix sysadmin) because it lacks so much software I need. There are some ways to run emulated Unix programs and utilities on Windows in VM with WSL or Cygwin but they are VERY clunky. Also... they tend to get hit by security software.. One such time I got a call from the security department at work warning me of dangerous software on my system. I was like "Oh? ok lets take care of that.. what is the software." The technician told me it was something called "Netcat". -- I was like NETCAT?! and bust out laughing. The senior security architecht over heard that conversation and head me laughing on the other end of the phone and told him.. no.. it's ok.. ignore that.

 

Exactly. Windows if fine for "everyday, casual facebook clicking", office work, secretary work.  If you are en engineer, or sysadmin (especially the network type) you will end up in Linux/BSD.. Once someone wants to get really close to hardware, one needs to be able to tinker with the OS.

 

Is there any possibility of backtracing crashes on windows system components? They are closed source, so I presume no debug symbols....

 

And Linux does not sell your data/

 

 

On 10/15/2021 at 7:47 PM, jde3 said:

I actually need a Unix workstation like MacOS or Linux because all software really is NOT on windows. It indeed lacks basic Unix functionality.

 

Exactly, and in general linux application have CLI.   There is Adobe Lighroom replacement called Darktable. It has fully functional CLI unlike Lightroom.

 

On 10/15/2021 at 7:47 PM, jde3 said:

There is also tons of excellent GUI software for Linux that just has no analogue for Windows. Some of it crosses the chasem though.. VLC, OBS, Handbrake or Chrome (KHTML was originally Linux) -- Ever heard of them? Well there is more..

Though most of that gets eventually ported to Windows.  For be the greatest exception is ZFS.  There is experimental Windows port, but it barely works and it has been experimental for years.

 

 

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, lacek said:

Most of this is doable on Windows, once you convert it to Linux (WSL?), except for ZFS which i totally unavaialble.

https://github.com/openzfsonwindows/ZFSin/releases

 

Its still very work in progress but it does work.

2 hours ago, lacek said:

 

Is there at all software RAID 5 and 6 for Windows?

Yep, on Server you have storage spaces which supports pretty much all kinds of software raid.