ARE OLD GEN PC's THE SAME AS OLD GEN CONSOLE'S?

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Roswell said:

Major revisions would be stuff like changes in physical appearance, functionality or added power. Minor revisions are things like alterations to inputs, board changes, die shrinks and so on.

 

Here’s an example of all of Sony’s major hardware revisions over the years: https://playstation.fandom.com/wiki/Console_revisions

 

Here’s a list of the crazy amount of just PS1 minor revisions: https://www.everything2.com/title/Sony+PlayStation+Console+Hardware+Model+Index

 

50 minutes ago, Mel0nMan said:

I've tried running my GTX 980 in my oldest PC with PCIe as a joke and it in fact worked. Not a great experience, and neither was putting the GeForce 6800 PCIe in my main system. But the fact that it worked at all shows how modular PCs are and how easily upgradable they are. IMO because of that fluidity there's not really defined generational gaps. 

And yeah good luck finding a Slot I GPU lol

 

 

49 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

Please tell me where I said that. I said PCI card in a PCI slot.

 

And we are trying to compare generations of PC vs generations of Consoles right.

 

I guess it's impossible to say there was generations of PC. 

 

That's what you guys are saying?

 

From my generation, was lucky to play Atari....

Let alone the DOS games we had.

 

But no.

FX is not the same generation as Ryzen. I don't care how much longer into the future you use it.

 

Nintendo 64 is not the same generation as a switch.

 

Really I think we as a group are over complicating this.

[Roswell]

1 minute ago, ShrimpBrime said:

 

 

 

 

And we are trying to compare generations of PC vs generations of Consoles right.

 

I guess it's impossible to say there was generations of PC. 

 

That's what you guys are saying?

 

From my generation, was lucky to play Atari....

Let alone the DOS games we had.

 

But no.

FX is not the same generation as Ryzen. I don't care how much longer into the future you use it.

 

Nintendo 64 is not the same generation as a switch.

 

Really I think we as a group are over complicating this.

Oh, I’m not really invested in whatever else is going on in the thread. I just replied about console revisions specifically because that’s what they’re classified as.

[Blue4130]

7 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

.

 

I guess it's impossible to say there was generations of PC. 

 

That's what you guys are saying?

 

Yes, due to them being modular. A PC can be made up of parts that span decades and numerous release cycles. Which part defines what a PC is? Take one part out, does the pc still function? Usually not. (if it's a key component such as cpu, motherboard, ram, etc) 

 

Consoles are largely not like this and get replaced whole every release rather that being upgraded by the user. So it's easy to define a console generation. 

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

Yes, due to them being modular. A PC can be made up of parts that span decades and numerous release cycles. Which part defines what a PC is? Take one part out, does the pc still function? Usually not. (if it's a key component such as cpu, motherboard, ram, etc) 

 

Consoles are largely not like this and get replaced whole every release rather that being upgraded by the user. So it's easy to define a console generation. 

I would define by CPU and Memory type.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

Yes, due to them being modular. A PC can be made up of parts that span decades and numerous release cycles. Which part defines what a PC is? Take one part out, does the pc still function? Usually not. (if it's a key component such as cpu, motherboard, ram, etc) 

 

Consoles are largely not like this and get replaced whole every release rather that being upgraded by the user. So it's easy to define a console generation. 

Well Consoles and PCs can (do?) share something in common such as the socket type.

BGA - CPU(APU) is not removeable. There's a lot of PC's that are BGA, mainly Laptops.

 

So would it be better to compare BGA to BGA then?

I mean in reality (so far) we are comparing BGA to socketed processors LGA and PGA.

 

Then the argument would be closer to a PC being upgradeable or not. In a laptop, generally not. You can upgrade the memory maybe, the HDD. But still would be based on that chipset and Cpu generation and memory type.

 

Possible twist here? huh? huh? yeah? haha! XD

[thrasher_565]

21 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

I personally don't agree with you on the basis that a PC is not made as a single unit where all components are required to be upgraded at the same time (on a console this is due to them all essentially being an integrated single unit). A PC is the sum of many parts that are not all released on the same schedule. You could theoretically have a pc made with 20 different generations of parts. 

 

A console on the other hand has a solid generational history. A nes was only ever sold as a nes, it wasn't sold as nes cpu, nes ram, nes psu, nes video output etc. 

 

Just my thoughts. Yours may differ. 

there are different gens of the nes different chips many have been used as they ran out or got stuff cheaper. even in n64 controllers there a few different parts same with sfc controller. the 1chip sfc can do rgb out from what i can tell.

[thrasher_565]

21 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

But a PC is made up of more than just a cpu. What generation is my pc if I use a 5600x and a 980ti and a 1tb hdd from 2012? (not setup, but just an example) 

 

The parts individually have generations, but pc's do not. 

probably the os will determent what gen it is imo. as that will be the limiting factor. you can argue that an old pc can still play newer game  that true but so can an console. you can still make a nes game if you wanted too.

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

there are different gens of the nes different chips many have been used as they ran out or got stuff cheaper. even in n64 controllers there a few different parts same with sfc controller. the 1chip sfc can do rgb out from what i can tell.

Yes, but a nes cpu was never sold as a user replaceable component. So you can't upgrade like you can with a pc. 

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

probably the os will determent what gen it is imo. as that will be the limiting factor. you can argue that an old pc can still play newer game  that true but so can an console. you can still make a nes game if you wanted too.

That doesn't work either. I can run windows 10 on my xeon e5 v1 and also on my 5600x. Does that mean both of those pc's are the same generation? There is roughly 10 years between them. 

[tkitch]

No.

 

A PS5 Game will never run on a PS 3 or 4.

 

A Modern PC Game can (potentially) run on a 6-10 year old PC, depending on what was in it.

[DeScruff]

On 10/11/2021 at 12:25 AM, CerealExperimentsLain said:

It's a lot harder to quantity 'generations' with PCs.  Individual parts have generations but you can be vague.  Each successive series of CPUs could be said to be a 'Generation' of CPUs, but people could also instead refer to the 'Pentium III generation' or 'Core 2 Generation'.

Hardware also improves in cycles, but mostly, PCs have many parts with faster but smaller improvements over time.  So with consoles you can look at very 'firm' as a new console replaces the old every 5 years or so.  PC hardware?  Well that is a more progressive flow.  More over, old PCs can do modern tasks.  Right now, while my GF uses my main desktop (3950X/RTX 3080) I'm using an i7 2430QM with RX560, this is a mobile CPU from ten years ago, but depending on hte game, it can run modern games pretty nicely.  So what 'generation' is that exactly?

These days I tend to lump PC generations by what generation of DDR RAM they use.

If I say a "DDR2 Machine", the potential parts list gets narrowed significantly.
You might know what CPUs could use that kinda memory giving you an idea of how much CPU horsepower is available.
You might know what features were, or weren't on motherboards from that time period. (No M.2 slots, not even USB 3 headers. - There might not even be USB 3! But more then likely you'll find a PCI slot)
You might even know the range of the amount of RAM the machine likely has, since there was a cap on how much RAM a motherboard could support (and DDR2 sticks were only made up to a certain size)

 

I guess the GPU is a wild card, since you could pair a RTX 3090 with a Phenom II... But you will still have an idea of where the performance cap might be, so it almost doesn't matter.

[thrasher_565]

1 hour ago, Blue4130 said:

Yes, but a nes cpu was never sold as a user replaceable component. So you can't upgrade like you can with a pc. 

there probably a way to over clock the nes but that's besides the point. i no in goldeneye they found a glitch were you push on the pcb on the controller and the game runs faster...

[SpacedInvader]

I'd split PCs up by decades personally. There's too many marginal improvements across different components on PC to split it into gens based on component release dates.

[Sauron]

Consoles can be much more easily divided into generations (though there is some variation, e.g. nintendo doesn't really release consoles at the same intervals as MS or Sony). With computers you'd have to count every year as a new generation, not to mention that any given PC might have parts released across various years.

[dalekphalm]

On 10/11/2021 at 12:07 AM, YungaYunga said:

Hello so I'm have a debate with a few of my friends about generations. 

 And he said there no such thing call Old Gen pcs. which I disagree because there generational CPU's, GPU's, and RAM to allow you to run games which depending on which components you have will offer a different experience.

Than the other friend said its not the same because you have to buy another console and pc you have to just upgrade parts which I disagree again because depending on which components your upgrading you have to make sure there compatible with the MB to run which is the same as buying another console. Is Im wrong in debate? Let me know what you think? do you agree or disagree?

 

So "Generations" in Consoles are definitely not comparable to "generations" with PC's - particularly PC components.

 

PC Components do have generations, but it's very different. CPU's, for example, largely get a new release every year - this can often be a new "generation". However, sometimes the new generation is compatible with an older platform.

 

GPU's have generations too, but again, not every generation is a true new generation, and is often just a revision or even just rebranding.

 

Other components have generations in a more loose sense, like RAM - DDR4 is a new generation compared to DDR3, for example - but each generation is re-used for often many years.

 

Then you have stuff like PSU's, which generally do not have generations, in the sense that a new model is much like an older model, except maybe just slightly more efficient, etc.

 

So the short answer is: It's complicated.

[MultiGamerClub]

Depends on context.

 

Short answer no:

Longer answer: Its complicated as parts for pc's can be generations apart but still compatible to use together..

 

Heck i still use my old CD-Drive from my pc thats.. Now 11 years old!

[thrasher_565]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:48 PM, Blue4130 said:

Yes, due to them being modular. A PC can be made up of parts that span decades and numerous release cycles. Which part defines what a PC is? Take one part out, does the pc still function? Usually not. (if it's a key component such as cpu, motherboard, ram, etc) 

 

Consoles are largely not like this and get replaced whole every release rather that being upgraded by the user. So it's easy to define a console generation. 

since the ps2 and 360 there bean like 2-3 gens of an console. the fat and the thin so... they do get upgrades. and the people the do buy both spend like $1000 on the system over the time not including subscriptions and games... ya remember when it was free to play on line...

Edited October 13, 2021 by thrasher_565

[Dabombinable]

On 10/11/2021 at 11:39 PM, ShrimpBrime said:

I thought chipset would help narrow that down for you.

 

Guys. Just because 20 year old hardware works makes it about as worth while to play a Nintendo 64.

 

And no, you can't put pcie cards into AGP slots.

 

Like saying you could put a 3070 into a slot 1 and call it a gaming rig.

I can use my Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 Pro under Windows 10, with my Gigabyte H97 HD3 board - displays the desktop just fine. At the end of the day hardware support will only ever have 2 limitations. One being the physical (eg. removal of AGP), and the main being software.

Slot 1 was for CPU exclusively BTW, so poor analogy.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I can use my Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 Pro under Windows 10, with my Gigabyte H97 HD3 board - displays the desktop just fine. At the end of the day hardware support will only ever have 2 limitations. One being the physical (eg. removal of AGP), and the main being software.

Slot 1 was for CPU exclusively BTW, so poor analogy.

So you are mixing generations of hardware and software with no driver support for AGP gpus. PCI (legacy) GPUs where a thing too.

SO-

And how would you compare this to ANY generation console anyways?

By the OS?

By the GPU?

By the platform?

By the Memory?

By the Floppy usb drive?? 

 

I'm pretty much done beating in this dead horse honestly.

[Blue4130]

2 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

since the ps2 and 360 there bean like 2-3 gens of an console. the fat and the thin so... they do get upgrades. and the people the do buy both spend like $1000 on the system over the time not including subscriptions and games... ya remember when it was free to play on line...

When I say upgrades, I mean user upgrades to individual components, this is something consoles don't do, other than storage. 

 

And what do people spend $1000 on if it's not including games? Ten controllers and cables? 

[thrasher_565]

20 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

When I say upgrades, I mean user upgrades to individual components, this is something consoles don't do, other than storage. 

 

And what do people spend $1000 on if it's not including games? Ten controllers and cables? 

well i no the ps3 fat was vary costly at like $800 then the slim came out and normally has upgrades (many fix temp problems...) but ran faster so more fps. dir hard fans would have gotten both systems so that were the $1000+ come in paly. then you pay a fee to play on line (not with the ps3 but ps4) witch i think is 15 a moth but i think there a year pass for i dont no how much. then game of cores. ya you still have to buy games on pc so thats a nill point i guess but i think it may even cost more then a pc but his has nothing really to do with the topic thow just a thought i had.

[Hachi_Roku256563]

I dont think generations on a pc are the same as consoles

Because

NO 1 pcs have a genration every year

consoles have one every 6 years

no 2 because a pc is more then one bit

you can have a 3ird gen ryzen chip a 1000 seiries gpu

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

So you are mixing generations of hardware and software with no driver support for AGP gpus. PCI (legacy) GPUs where a thing too.

SO-

And how would you compare this to ANY generation console anyways?

By the OS?

By the GPU?

By the platform?

By the Memory?

By the Floppy usb drive?? 

 

I'm pretty much done beating in this dead horse honestly.

Its PCI...not AGP which is why this board (supports m.2 and NVME via adapter, and Broadwell) worked just fine with it:
https://www.gigabyte.com/au/Motherboard/GA-H97-HD3-rev-10#ov
 

My Stealth 3D 2000 Pro:
http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cpu/item/562-diamond-stealth-3d-2000-pro-s3-virge-dx

Point is each piece of PC hardware has generations, not PC has a whole, and multiple generations can all work together even though they are decades are apart - what limits compatibility if the connector is correct is the drivers.
You really don't know much about older PC hardware if you don't understand how PCI, AGP and PCIe are all completely different.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Its PCI...not AGP which is why this board (supports m.2 and NVME via adapter, and Broadwell) worked just fine with it:
https://www.gigabyte.com/au/Motherboard/GA-H97-HD3-rev-10#ov
 

My Stealth 3D 2000 Pro:
http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cpu/item/562-diamond-stealth-3d-2000-pro-s3-virge-dx

Point is each piece of PC hardware has generations, not PC has a whole, and multiple generations can all work together even though they are decades are apart - what limits compatibility if the connector is correct is the drivers.
You really don't know much about older PC hardware if you don't understand how PCI, AGP and PCIe are all completely different.

You obviously just don't get it. And again, not my problem.

 

Good day.

[IPD]

There are 100% "generations" of PC's.  The idea of what comprises a "generation" though, is nebulous.  Various factors including:

 

-New OS that won't run on hardware before a certain date (or at least isn't intended to)

-New Bus speeds

-New Socket form factors

-New RAM standards (DDR3 > DDR4)

-New interface standards (AGP> PCIe)

 

Generations MUST exist because (for example) with a given MOBO, you will eventually have bracketed limit on the earliest/latest stuff that can be supported.  Even if those parts are backwards compatible to the MOBO (perhaps DDR4 5200), you may well still be limited to the performance the MOBO is capable of (i.e. only performs at 2666).

 

Generations aren't as "locked" or compartmentalized as they are on consoles--but they still exist.  Otherwise, you'd be able to run your 486 processor with an RTX 3080.  Or run your 11th gen Intel processor with a Hercules GPU.