ARE OLD GEN PC's THE SAME AS OLD GEN CONSOLE'S?

[YungaYunga]

Hello so I'm have a debate with a few of my friends about generations. 

 And he said there no such thing call Old Gen pcs. which I disagree because there generational CPU's, GPU's, and RAM to allow you to run games which depending on which components you have will offer a different experience.

Than the other friend said its not the same because you have to buy another console and pc you have to just upgrade parts which I disagree again because depending on which components your upgrading you have to make sure there compatible with the MB to run which is the same as buying another console. Is Im wrong in debate? Let me know what you think? do you agree or disagree?

 

[Blue4130]

11 minutes ago, YungaYunga said:

Hello so I'm have a debate with a few of my friends about generations. 

 And he said there no such thing call Old Gen pcs. which I disagree because there generational CPU's, GPU's, and RAM to allow you to run games which depending on which components you have will offer a different experience.

Than the other friend said its not the same because you have to buy another console and pc you have to just upgrade parts which I disagree again because depending on which components your upgrading you have to make sure there compatible with the MB to run which is the same as buying another console. Is Im wrong in debate? Let me know what you think? do you agree or disagree?

 

I personally don't agree with you on the basis that a PC is not made as a single unit where all components are required to be upgraded at the same time (on a console this is due to them all essentially being an integrated single unit). A PC is the sum of many parts that are not all released on the same schedule. You could theoretically have a pc made with 20 different generations of parts. 

 

A console on the other hand has a solid generational history. A nes was only ever sold as a nes, it wasn't sold as nes cpu, nes ram, nes psu, nes video output etc. 

 

Just my thoughts. Yours may differ. 

[CerealExperimentsLain]

It's a lot harder to quantity 'generations' with PCs.  Individual parts have generations but you can be vague.  Each successive series of CPUs could be said to be a 'Generation' of CPUs, but people could also instead refer to the 'Pentium III generation' or 'Core 2 Generation'.

Hardware also improves in cycles, but mostly, PCs have many parts with faster but smaller improvements over time.  So with consoles you can look at very 'firm' as a new console replaces the old every 5 years or so.  PC hardware?  Well that is a more progressive flow.  More over, old PCs can do modern tasks.  Right now, while my GF uses my main desktop (3950X/RTX 3080) I'm using an i7 2430QM with RX560, this is a mobile CPU from ten years ago, but depending on hte game, it can run modern games pretty nicely.  So what 'generation' is that exactly?

[Guest]

Of course there's "generations of PC.

 

For a simple example, there are 4 generations of AMD Ryzen processors, they just happen to use the same socket over and over.

 

Obviously a Gen 1 can't shake a stick at gen 4....

Much like Nintendo 64 can't shake a stick at current hand held, which are many generations apart. 

 

But I can see maybe the definition is revisions being mixed up with generations. When it comes to processors, that would be same generation, just a different stepping, we can call that a revision. Where's a die shrink and architecture change would be a new generation. 

 

Athlon, Athlon II and Ryzen Athon are all different platforms and generations. The original Athlons would come with different steppings and core model name. But same generation. 

 

 

 

TLDR?

Consoles don't do revisions. Just generations essentially

[Blue4130]

2 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Of course there's "generations of PC.

 

For a simple example, there are 4 generations of AMD Ryzen processors, they just happen to use the same socket over and over.

 

But a PC is made up of more than just a cpu. What generation is my pc if I use a 5600x and a 980ti and a 1tb hdd from 2012? (not setup, but just an example) 

 

The parts individually have generations, but pc's do not. 

[Arika]

not even sure why it's a "debate" in the first place. it completely depends on the time frames you're looking at

 

for example, the xbox one and ps4 was released in 2013

the xbox series x and ps5 was released in 2020

 

that's a 7 year gap.

 

In 2013 for the PC side, you're looking at intel 4th gen and AMD FM2 CPUs

which if you had a PC from 2013 and updated in 2020 with no changes in between, yeah, you would basically be buying a whole new PC most likely.

 

Incremental upgrades on PC are easier and cheaper than the consoles, but to be fair i don't see the incremental updates of consoles (ps4 pro and Xbox one X) as "upgrades", if you have an original, there is barely any point to upgrading. if you're just getting into the console, then yes, get the more powerful one.

[Mark Kaine]

I agree,  the only thing a pc has thats truly reusable throughout generations is the case... (and even that can be sketchy)

 

 

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Blue4130 said:

But a PC is made up of more than just a cpu. What generation is my pc if I use a 5600x and a 980ti and a 1tb hdd from 2012? (not setup, but just an example) 

 

The parts individually have generations, but pc's do not. 

The hardware that was purchased together in that time line yes.

 

I was reading it above.... kinda lol.

 

Yeah, ok TODAY you can build current to early model PC with a mix of hardware.....

 

But when that hardware was released, Ryzen wasn't thought of yet.

 

Chipset generation is a thing too. Generally matches the cpu generation. 

 

You have no idea what lies 20 years from now. You probably won't be mixing those generations with the current ones....

[Mark Kaine]

8 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Chipset generation is a thing too. Generally matches the cpu generation. 

That's what I mean, you can upgrade a pc, but generally only within the same generation... which is why its a bit muddy, because what is a generation... but you arent going to "upgrade" a pc from 1995 to today's standards... 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

That's what I mean, you can upgrade a pc, but generally only within the same generation... which is why its a bit muddy, because what is a generation... but you arent going to "upgrade" a pc from 1995 to today's standards... 

Again a die shrink with architectural changes would be a generation. 

 

AM4 is a generation chipset. Covers 4 generations of processors. 

 

AM3 was a generation. Again with revisions of chipsets just like AM4. With as well generations of processors.

 

AM2 is a generation as well....

 

So far there is something in common. 

DDR2

DDR3

DDR4

 

Each gen platform can carry multiple generations of processors.

Some of the above which had TWO memory controllers and where carried further into another generation of platform, the cpu capable of ddr 2 and 3.

 

Revision 1 cpu ddr2. Revision 2 ddr 2 and 3. 

 

Could it add further confusion? 

 

__________

My Xbox one is running AMD FX architecture. 

That is about as close as one could compare architecture to a pc and its generational path. (AM3 DDr3)

[LogicalDrm]

Even with consoles, what "generation" means is bit odd.
Like PS5 is at the same time 5th generation and not. Its 5th generation of PlayStations, but not 5th generation of home consoles. Just PS1 would be 4th or 5th. And when you add Xbox, XBOne it is not 5th gen, but 3rd or 4th (of Xboxes), depending on what you take as generational leap.

 

So only place where generation really means something, is mobile connections. 5g is literally 5th generation. (and I'm sure someone corrects me on this)

[Wh0_Am_1]

2 hours ago, Blue4130 said:

But a PC is made up of more than just a cpu. What generation is my pc if I use a 5600x and a 980ti and a 1tb hdd from 2012? (not setup, but just an example) 

 

The parts individually have generations, but pc's do not. 

Another example I have a HP Compaq Elite 8200 with a Core i5 2500, a GTX 1050, a Team Group SSD from 2019 and a 1TB HDD from 2008.

[Wh0_Am_1]

In the end the best way to quantify a PC is often not by their generation but by their era such as in the past 20 years such as (just an example)  the Pentium/Athlon era, the Core2/Phenom2 era, the Core era, and now the Ryzen era.

[LAwLz]

48 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

So only place where generation really means something, is mobile connections. 5g is literally 5th generation. (and I'm sure someone corrects me on this)

Even with cellular connections the waters are muddled.

For example 3G vs HSPA vs HSPA+.

4G vs LTE vs LTE-A.

5G vs mmWave 5G.

 

 

OP it seems like you're just arguing semantics.

With minor improvements/revisions it's hard to draw well defined lines. As LogicalDrm said, are we talking about consoles in general or just one specific console? The PS5 is the 5th generation of PlayStation consoles, but overall it's considered the 9th generation of consoles with the Atari Home Pong being considered "first gen".

But what is even a generation? Is it new software support and shedding old stuff? Because the new consoles can run older games as well, so...

Would you say the first COD game is the same generation of PC game as the latest?

[Mark Kaine]

2 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Again a die shrink with architectural changes would be a generation. 

 

AM4 is a generation chipset. Covers 4 generations of processors. 

 

AM3 was a generation. Again with revisions of chipsets just like AM4. With as well generations of processors.

 

AM2 is a generation as well....

 

So far there is something in common. 

DDR2

DDR3

DDR4

 

Each gen platform can carry multiple generations of processors.

Yeah, if you think about it, only chipsets make really sense?

Like "Ryzen" (am4) I can't use the newest Ryzen on my B350 Ryzen board... even tho both are "am4", i can't,  there's no support... so i think that's the closest to a "generation" even if the differences maybe aren't as big. But truth is there is no standard what defines a generation so its just very subjective, still chipsets would make sense imo.

[rockyroller]

4 hours ago, YungaYunga said:

Hello so I'm have a debate with a few of my friends about generations. 

 And he said there no such thing call Old Gen pcs. which I disagree because there generational CPU's, GPU's, and RAM to allow you to run games which depending on which components you have will offer a different experience.

Than the other friend said its not the same because you have to buy another console and pc you have to just upgrade parts which I disagree again because depending on which components your upgrading you have to make sure there compatible with the MB to run which is the same as buying another console. Is Im wrong in debate? Let me know what you think? do you agree or disagree?

 

If you look at the Microsoft OS software (consoles also have an OS but not as in your face as it is with a computer), then you can see the PC generations quite easily.

MS DOS to Windows ME (Win95.98 just on top of DOS, ME was the break away from DOS) to XP (a move away from even ME) and finally to Vista to eventually Win 10/11 (that is not quite the same as Vista, its kind of a ME leap). There is also CPU leaps that can also define generations and they are reflected by the OS changes of the time. 16, 32 and 64, bit then multicore. CPU first but without the OS the potential of the CPC wasn't unlocked

 

I think the same could be said of Commodore, Sinclair, Apple. The OS defined the Gen but made best use of the hardware improvements coming out. 

 

[NineEyeRon]

No, the Wii will always be the best.

[da na]

Well, here's my take on it.

You can still use a Pentium 4 system (sort of) and you can definitely still use a Core 2 Duo/Quad system and those are 15-20 years old. Consoles after what, 10-15 years become unsupported but PCs are theoretically supported forever.

I still use a Xeon system from 2012 with a GTX 980. Newest part in it is a few months old HDD because the old one died. But it's still quite powerful and quite usable today.

[Roswell]

9 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

TLDR?

Consoles don't do revisions. Just generations essentially

There are countless revisions for every major console dating back decades. I literally can’t think of a major console aside from Dreamcast that hasn’t had a revision in the last 35 years.

[Blue4130]

7 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

That's what I mean, you can upgrade a pc, but generally only within the same generation... which is why its a bit muddy, because what is a generation... but you arent going to "upgrade" a pc from 1995 to today's standards... 

But you can, There is nothing stopping you from using a 1995 era PCI based graphics card in a machine from mid 2015. So what "generation" is that PC? Is it defined by CPU? By GPU? It's too difficult to narrow down.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Roswell said:

There are countless revisions for every major console dating back decades. I literally can’t think of a major console aside from Dreamcast that hasn’t had a revision in the last 35 years.

Oh? 

What is a console revision?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Blue4130 said:

But you can, There is nothing stopping you from using a 1995 era PCI based graphics card in a machine from mid 2015. So what "generation" is that PC? Is it defined by CPU? By GPU? It's too difficult to narrow down.

I thought chipset would help narrow that down for you.

 

Guys. Just because 20 year old hardware works makes it about as worth while to play a Nintendo 64.

 

And no, you can't put pcie cards into AGP slots.

 

Like saying you could put a 3070 into a slot 1 and call it a gaming rig.

[da na]

3 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

I thought chipset would help narrow that down for you.

 

Guys. Just because 20 year old hardware works makes it about as worth while to play a Nintendo 64.

 

And no, you can't put pcie cards into AGP slots.

 

Like saying you could put a 3070 into a slot 1 and call it a gaming rig.

I've tried running my GTX 980 in my oldest PC with PCIe as a joke and it in fact worked. Not a great experience, and neither was putting the GeForce 6800 PCIe in my main system. But the fact that it worked at all shows how modular PCs are and how easily upgradable they are. IMO because of that fluidity there's not really defined generational gaps. 

And yeah good luck finding a Slot I GPU lol

[Blue4130]

3 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

 

And no, you can't put pcie cards into AGP slots.

 

Please tell me where I said that. I said PCI card in a PCI slot.

[Roswell]

9 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Oh? 

What is a console revision?

Major revisions would be stuff like changes in physical appearance, functionality or added power. Minor revisions are things like alterations to inputs, board changes, die shrinks and so on.

 

Here’s an example of all of Sony’s major hardware revisions over the years: https://playstation.fandom.com/wiki/Console_revisions

 

Here’s a list of the crazy amount of just PS1 minor revisions: https://www.everything2.com/title/Sony+PlayStation+Console+Hardware+Model+Index