Microsoft announces new Surface lineup

[Commodus]

4 hours ago, Icarus_Radio said:

No one talks about Surface Go 3? I have both Go and Go 2 and I am having a good time with it.

It's a pretty modest update. The performance boost is nice, but as before you really need to step up to a higher-tier model to get the speed you want. And apart from that, it's basically a Surface Go 2.

[Sorenson]

16 hours ago, lostcattears said:

I would have been so happy with a surfacebook 4... 2400 x 1600 screen with a amd cpu 6 cores 120 hz screen.

The new larger touch pad and better sounding speakers on the bottom portion with a 3060 mobile which can actually play real games. Bigger battery.

The surface slim pen 2... ehhh slim pens are not my thing. Could have made space... Truthfully this was all the surfacebook 3 needed as a spec bump and EVERY surfacebook 4 would have been sold out.

 

I think microsoft shot itself in the foot. If it was suppose to be a surfacebook replacement. There are plently of cheaper and better similar options microsoft... 

 

I am still hoping a surfacebook 4 is coming... if not... well... crap...Dell XPS 17/G14

 

It’s using a 4 core intel CPU and 3050ti, it’s just mindbogglingly overpriced and underpowered. The whole hinge thing is cool, but I just can’t see any way it makes sense to buy it.

[RoseLuck462]

The Studio Laptop looks pretty cool but the specs are still so bad, what is MS thinking??

[HenrySalayne]

On 9/23/2021 at 7:30 AM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

The moment I saw the Surface Laptop Studio, my first thought was Sony Vaio Flip

 

 

Shame this thing was never appreciated at the time. 

The original idea is actually taken from the Acer R7. And Sony's and now Microsoft's interpretations have one vital flaw: the keyboard needs to be in front of the touchpad. 

The R7 might look stupid, but it works. The Surface Laptop Studio, on the other hand, doesn't. Who wants to get the display closer to use touch input and a track pad? Utter garbage! 

[Arika]

6 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

The Surface Laptop Studio, on the other hand, doesn't. Who wants to get the display closer to use touch input and a track pad?

artists. it's not to give access to the trackpad, it's to get an infinite range of angles exactly like the kickstand on the surface pro

[HenrySalayne]

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

artists. it's not to give access to the trackpad, it's to get an infinite range of angles exactly like the kickstand on the surface pro

I used the Surface Pro and the Acer R7 extensively. One will either use touch+keyboard or trackpad+keyboard. 

If you go out of your way to design this kind of dual-hinge system, make sure the user is able to use the keyboard and the touchscreen at the same time. Otherwise it's just added complexity without any advantage. 

 

Edit:
Even worse, I just heard the screen magnetically snaps into this position. Why, Microsoft, why would anyone use the device like this? The Laptop Studio could have been great, but it lacks connectivity, it's kind of a chungus and it's expensive.

 

Microsoft, please move the keyboard to the front, throw in some more I/O and lower the entry price (and keep 16 GB of RAM) for the Surface Laptop Studio 2 (and change the name in the process). In its current form this laptop will be unsuccessful. 

 

 

[Commodus]

21 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

I used the Surface Pro and the Acer R7 extensively. One will either use touch+keyboard or trackpad+keyboard. 

If you go out of your way to design this kind of dual-hinge system, make sure the user is able to use the keyboard and the touchscreen at the same time. Otherwise it's just added complexity without any advantage. 

 

Edit:
Even worse, I just heard the screen magnetically snaps into this position. Why, Microsoft, why would anyone use the device like this? The Laptop Studio could have been great, but it lacks connectivity, it's kind of a chungus and it's expensive.

 

Microsoft, please move the keyboard to the front, throw in some more I/O and lower the entry price (and keep 16 GB of RAM) for the Surface Laptop Studio 2 (and change the name in the process). In its current form this laptop will be unsuccessful. 

 

 

It's rationalized as a way to help creators draw. I could also see it used for presentations. With that said: I suspect Microsoft is reluctant to admit that people buy its high-end models (the Surface Book and now Surface Laptop Studio) because they're the fastest Microsoft-made laptops, not because they genuinely want to use the party trick feature.

 

That's part of why I imagine Apple snickers whenever someone insists laptops 'must' have touchscreens. The fantasy is that people deftly switch between touchscreen and trackpad in a harmonious blend of computer interactions; the reality is that many users largely stick to the trackpad and only occasionally poke at the screen. The Surface Laptop Studio, while it does look promising, is trying to address a problem that doesn't exist for most people.

[Vishera]

The existence of surface devices irritates me.

I hate them so much.

Just look at the thing:

On 9/22/2021 at 9:50 PM, gjsman said:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX graphics

Doesn't mean anything,

In their website they stated that the thing will have a RTX 3050 Ti  - Whatever that means.

GPU model names lost their meaning the moment NVIDIA allowed to operate them with huge variance in power restrictions and cooling performance.

A 150W 3050 Ti will perform significantly better than a 75W one.

A well cooled 75W 3050 Ti may outperform a poorly cooled 100W 3050 Ti.

[HenrySalayne]

20 hours ago, Commodus said:

I suspect Microsoft is reluctant to admit that people buy its high-end models (the Surface Book and now Surface Laptop Studio) because they're the fastest Microsoft-made laptops, not because they genuinely want to use the party trick feature.

That's probably it. And it's kind of annoying. Microsoft cannibalized the usefulness of the defining feature - the dual hinge system - to make this device more pleasing for people who don't want to use this "party trick". They already have a bog-standard notebook in their lineup and they turned the Laptop Studio basically into a way more expensive and heavier Surface Laptop. 

 

Besides its unconventional design, I was really pleased with my R7. But it is too slow, heavy and bulky nowadays and sadly lacks a built-in digitizer. I would love to see a modern thin-and-light with a dual hinge and the keyboard at the front of the chassis. 

 

 

[Freakwise]

Looks like the only thing ms surface studio laptop is compete with is acer conceptD 3 ezel pro

 

[Qyygle]

6 hours ago, Freakwise said:

Looks like the only thing ms surface studio laptop is compete with is acer conceptD 3 ezel pro

 

Competes incredibly poorly at that.

That Acer is priced at $1600 with: A hexa-core i7-10750H, GTX1650ti (or 1650 for cheaper), 16gb RAM, 512G ssd which is user replaceable, the pen comes in the box and charges while docked, it has USB-A ports, a thunderbolt 3 port, ethernet, HDMI, displayport, and an SD card slot. It uses a 135W charger

The Surface comparison at this price has a quad-core i5-11300H, no dedicated gpu, 16gb RAM, 256gb ssd (possibly soldered in), and a grand total of 2 thunderbolt 4 ports (+surface connect I guess). This model ships with a 60W power supply, the higher spec'd versions come with 95W.

 

By every metric, aside from screen, the surface is a terrible deal. At the higher price points, you can spec out a full Conceptd 7 Ezel, which will come with a professional grade Wacom EMR digitizer, and specs which blow the Surface away, for the same price. At the base model, you can buy the equivalent spec of the top model Surface, for the same price.

 

Just looking at the provided charger capacities shows how slow these Surfaces will run. Intel's CPU woes aside, the highest spec'd model is using 95W chargers. That 3050ti is running on like, 40W. Laptop GTX 1650's, a low-mid range option average 50W in reasonable implementations. This is pathetic and terrible value. This is literally Microsoft un-ashamedly selling trash via fancy presentation and visual flair.

[HenrySalayne]

6 minutes ago, Qyygle said:

By every metric, aside from screen, the surface is a terrible deal.

The 120 Hz 3:2 screen and the (claimed) unnoticeable pen input lag are two huge selling points, at least in my opinion. And the Laptop Studio is slightly less chunky. 

9 minutes ago, Qyygle said:

(possibly soldered in)

There is clearly an M.2 slot on their pictures with support for a 2230 or a 2280. 

[Qyygle]

Just now, HenrySalayne said:

The 120 Hz 3:2 screen and the (claimed) unnoticeable pen input lag are two huge selling points, at least in my opinion. And the Laptop Studio is slightly less chunky. 

There is clearly an M.2 slot on their pictures with support for a 2230 or a 2280. 

Fair enough on the pen. The Conceptd 7's EMR digitizer will make up for a lot of the difference on pen feel however, even if the 120 hz screen has better pen-lag. If you've used any of Samsung's pen devices, it's the same digitizer. Microsoft Pen Protocol and Wacom AES have always lagged EMR and Apple's pencil, but maybe this revision has improved. Considering how proud they were of their haptic pen though, I have a feeling I know where most of their R&D was spend on (not digitizer accuracy/quality).

It's possible the SSD slot is available for upgrade later on. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to have glued the chassis together again like on the original Surface laptops, but one can hope they've learned since...

The other points still stand though. They are selling a netbook at workstation pricing

[HenrySalayne]

2 minutes ago, Qyygle said:

It's possible the SSD slot is available for upgrade later on. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to have glued the chassis together again like on the original Surface laptops, but one can hope they've learned since...

Maybe Microsoft did learn something and they allow easy access to the components. They added a small access panel on the Surface Pro 8 to replace the SSD. 

 

4 minutes ago, Qyygle said:

The other points still stand though. They are selling a netbook at workstation pricing

Agree. 

[Freakwise]

1 hour ago, Qyygle said:

-snip-

Well yeah I'm aware of that, im just saying it's competing interms of it's from factor (if that make any sense)

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Freakwise

[Qyygle]

1 hour ago, Freakwise said:

Well yeah I'm aware of that, im just saying it's competing interms of it's from factor (if that make any sense)

 

 

Oh, yup I agree. Sorry if I came across super negative.

The current trend of the Surface lineup is just so disappointing. For such a long time this brand was Microsoft presenting the best of what a PC could be. The original Surface Book was innovative and interesting, separating the CPU and GPU had such potential that went untapped. The Surface Pro's were an incredible step forward on what a tablet PC could be, at a time when OEMs were frankly making junk and the iPad had lowered public perception of tablets to children's toy status.

 

The latest releases have done nothing exceptional, aside from a slide toward mediocre hardware and paired it with an ever growing pompous presentation format that only makes me wish Panay would move to Apple already. That it took them so long to adapt thunderbolt is a joke. It's sad that after the original Surface upended the notion that you couldn't fit a full computer in tablet form, the M1 iPad Pro is showing if you want the most powerful 2-in-1, it'll be running iPad OS... and it's cheaper to boot

[HenrySalayne]

44 minutes ago, Qyygle said:

the M1 iPad Pro is showing if you want the most powerful 2-in-1, it'll be running iPad OS... and it's cheaper to boot

... and it will not run the software you need. There is always a catch. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

... and it will not run the software you need. There is always a catch. 

I think the iPad's selection of software is excellent. It is what most people need. 

Hell, even the games I want to play are available on iOS. That's probably not true for a lot of people, but I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the most commonly used software, or an equally good alternative, exists for the iPad. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Benji said:

Why is the "the configuration depends on the device's colour" even a thing? It's ridiculous.

Because of stocking issues. Manufacturing and stocking each config in each color becomes a logistics nightmare. It doesn't make much sense (business wise) to stock a niche product in a ton of different colors when you only expect to sell a few of them, and those sales will be concentrated to one or two colors. 

It sucks for people who want a specific color, but such is life. I am not making excuses for Microsoft. I'm just trying to answer your question for the POV of Microsoft. 

[RoseLuck462]

All I can really say is that they're getting there.

 

Almost appealing

[HenrySalayne]

10 hours ago, LAwLz said:

That's probably not true for a lot of people, but I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the most commonly used software, or an equally good alternative, exists for the iPad. 

The native iPad port of most applications lacks a lot of the deeper functionality found on desktop computers. Heck, even the Mac port often loses vital functionality. 

If you are doing just some basic work like writing or smaller media editing, an iPad might be fine. CAD and other specialized tools? - no chance. 

But this thread is not about iPads and a comparisons is quite futile if someone cannot run the software they need. 

[LAwLz]

49 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

The native iPad port of most applications lacks a lot of the deeper functionality found on desktop computers. Heck, even the Mac port often loses vital functionality. 

If you are doing just some basic work like writing or smaller media editing, an iPad might be fine. CAD and other specialized tools? - no chance. 

But this thread is not about iPads and a comparisons is quite futile if someone cannot run the software they need. 

Well, CAD and "other specialized tools" are the 10% of software I didn't include in the "90% of the most commonly used software exists for iPads".

The "deeper functionality" you refer to is also the 10% that most people don't need.

 

If you need those things then yeah, an iPad is not for you. You are most likely in a very small minority though.

[HenrySalayne]

13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If you need those things then yeah, an iPad is not for you. You are most likely in a very small minority though.

Yes and no. If you only do light workloads, why even bother with performance? Why would you pay extra for a Laptop Studio or an iPad Pro? People who actually need the performance tend to be the people who use specialized software. 

The iPad Pro is a different product for a different kind of workload. I guess only a small part of iPad costumers would be happy with a Surface devices and only a tiny part of Surface costumers would be happy with an iPad. And the 90% who don't care could just literally buy anything else. 

[LAwLz]

10 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Yes and no. If you only do light workloads, why even bother with performance? Why would you pay extra for a Laptop Studio or an iPad Pro? People who actually need the performance tend to be the people who use specialized software. 

The iPad Pro is a different product for a different kind of workload. I guess only a small part of iPad costumers would be happy with a Surface devices and only a tiny part of Surface costumers would be happy with an iPad. And the 90% who don't care could just literally buy anything else. 

Wait a minute here, what are you talking about exactly?

The person you originally replied to was talking about 2-in-1 laptops and how the Surface Pro used to be good.

We're not comparing a workstation tower vs the iPad. Nobody said that engineers should replace their server farms with iPads. We are just talking about how the iPad is the best 2-in-1 you can buy, or at least that's what the other guy said, to which you replied "and will not run any of the software you need".

 

Well, what software do people who own Surface Pro devices run? Like I said, 90% of them will probably do just fine on an iPad. Keyword there being 90%. It's only a small minority of users who run the specialized software like CAD you mentioned. 

 

Also, what do you define as "light workloads"? The Surface Pro 8, the latest and fastest one, tops out with a quad core i7 at 3GHz. It's not a powerful machine. Pretty much no 2-in-1 has a lot of compute power. They are more meant for light workloads. Not that there is anything wrong with "light workloads" either. Most people do not need a lot of local compute performance. Only a very, very small group of people do.

 

 

I honestly think that 90% of Surface Pro users could switch to using an M1 iPad without any issues. They would most likely all have a better experience as well.

[HenrySalayne]

22 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Wait a minute here, what are you talking about exactly?

The original quote said an iPad is more powerful and cheaper than the current Surface lineup. To which I replied that the performance is worth nothing, if it doesn't run the software you need. 

 

25 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I honestly think that 90% of Surface Pro users could switch to using an M1 iPad without any issues. They would most likely all have a better experience as well.

Of all the Surface users I know (somewhere between 10 to 20, me included), nobody could switch to an M1 iPad. They picked the Surface because they need something portable to scribble and draw on and they need Windows. 

I personally never heard of anyone buying a Surface Pro as a "sitting on the sofa consuming content" tablet, or as a replacement for a family computer. And Windows tablets in general will not fit this role, regardless how much effort Microsoft puts into it. A versatile and good desktop OS will never be a good tablet OS. 

But this I just my bubble, maybe some people are really buying a Surface and use it like a bog-standard iPad on their sofa. It's probably not the thing they actually need, but at least they can buy a Netflix subscription and play some Fortnite. 

[LAwLz]

30 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

The original quote said an iPad is more powerful and cheaper than the current Surface lineup. To which I replied that the performance is worth nothing, if it doesn't run the software you need.

But it does run the software most people need...

 

30 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Of all the Surface users I know (somewhere between 10 to 20, me included), nobody could switch to an M1 iPad. They picked the Surface because they need something portable to scribble and draw on and they need Windows. 

The M1 iPad seems to fit the "something portable to scribble and draw on" pretty well. Why do they need Windows exactly? Before you say "they have some programs they need", which programs?

 

 

31 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

I personally never heard of anyone buying a Surface Pro as a "sitting on the sofa consuming content" tablet, or as a replacement for a family computer. And Windows tablets in general will not fit this role, regardless how much effort Microsoft puts into it. A versatile and good desktop OS will never be a good tablet OS. 

But this I just my bubble, maybe some people are really buying a Surface and use it like a bog-standard iPad on their sofa. It's probably not the thing they actually need, but at least they can buy a Netflix subscription and play some Fortnite. 

But the iPad can be used for more than just watching Netflix on the sofa...