Microsoft announces new Surface lineup

[HenrySalayne]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

But it does run the software most people need...

most people ≠ Surface users

 

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Before you say "they have some programs they need", which programs?

CAD, SDKs, DAWs and countless other things. If you have any piece of hardware that has to be set up once and which will work for a decade, chances are, the software to set it up is only available for Windows. 

And don't even ask about hardware support. RS-232? RS-485? 

 

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

But the iPad can be used for more than just watching Netflix on the sofa..

It's an older study, but I think iPads are still used mainly for recreational purposes (Link):

 

How many Surface tablets worldwide have been sold without the type cover? Four? Five? Maybe even seven? Nobody knows, but the number is probably really low. In contrast, roughly 90% of the iPad owners don't even have a type cover. 

I can only repeat myself: any comparison between the Surface and an iPad is futile. Made-up numbers like "90% of the Surface users could switch to an iPad Pro" also aren't helping. 

 

If you need any more proof, take a look at the Surface Pro X. Because of the limited software and hardware support, nobody is buying it. This is the actual contender for the iPad. 

 

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

most people ≠ Surface users

If Surface users aren't "most people", then who are Surface people? What special needs do they have that can't be fulfilled on an M1 iPad?

 

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

CAD, SDKs, DAWs and countless other things. If you have any piece of hardware that has to be set up once and which will work for a decade, chances are, the software to set it up is only available for Windows. 

CAD - exists on the iPad although in somewhat limited capabilities. Not like you'd want to do massive AutoCAD projects on the Surface Pro either. 

SDK - Not sure what you mean. Do you mean they are developers? It depends on what software development you're doing. Large projects of compiled code? Not idea on an iPad, although it's certainly not idea on a Surface Pro either. Smaller projects and non-compiled code? Totally possible. You just need a good text editor. I do agree that it would be easier on a Windows-based PC though, but most people are not programmers, and I doubt most Surface users are programmers either.

DAW - Completely possible to do on an iPad. It's actually very popular for that particular purpose. TouchOSC for example runs really well on iPads and is very popular. Not to mention things like GarageBand, FL Studio and Cubasis all works on the iPad.

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

And don't even ask about hardware support. RS-232? RS-485? 

1) You're once again bringing up really niche things.

2) I actually have used a console port on my Android phone, thanks to AirConsole, and it would work on an iPad too. Not ideal, but we are once again talking about really niche things that not even 1% of people will ever use or need.

 

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

It's an older study, but I think iPads are still used mainly for recreational purposes (Link

 

How many Surface tablets worldwide have been sold without the type cover? Four? Five? Maybe even seven? Nobody knows, but the number is probably really low. In contrast, roughly 90% of the iPad owners don't even have a type cover. 

I can only repeat myself: any comparison between the Surface and an iPad is futile. Made-up numbers like "90% of the Surface users could switch to an iPad Pro" also aren't helping. 

 

If you need any more proof, take a look at the Surface Pro X. Because of the limited software and hardware support, nobody is buying it. This is the actual contender for the iPad. 

What is your point?

"Most people use it for movie watching and web browsing" does not imply or even mean that it can only be used for that.

 

I still think the M1 iPad is a competitor to the Surface. For browsing, the iPad is better (that covers what 90% of people need). For content consumption, the iPad is better. For drawing, the iPad is better. For office work, the iPad is better (it has Office 365 and it performs better on the M1 Mac than on the Surface). For particular games, the iPad is better (highly depends on the game, but the games that do exist for the iPad such as Genshin Impact, Hearthstone, etc, will run better on the iPad). I think that covers 90% of the use cases for the people interested in buying a Surface Pro. The remaining 10% that might need a serial port and don't want to use a Bluetooth adapter? Fine, the Surface Pro is better for those people.

[Dracarris]

20 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The remaining 10% that might need a serial port and don't want to use a Bluetooth adapter? Fine, the Surface Pro is better for those people.

It‘s not like the surface has built-in RS232, lol. And a type-C to whatever-serial adapter should work on the ipad as well, I guess. But yeah very niche use case, although RS232 is still widely used but solely with USB converter chips in between.

[Blademaster91]

A MS Surface vs an iPad is an apples vs oranges comparison, a tablet with a tablet OS is usually going to be better for tablet and mobile app stuff. Some people just want to run desktop OS software, or as mentioned be able to buy a Netflix subscription, and run what games they want to without being limited by the app store.

But I wouldn't buy either a surface or an ipad, I'd personally rather buy a Framework laptop.

[LAwLz]

50 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

A MS Surface vs an iPad is an apples vs oranges comparison, a tablet with a tablet OS is usually going to be better for tablet and mobile app stuff. Some people just want to run desktop OS software, or as mentioned be able to buy a Netflix subscription, and run what games they want to without being limited by the app store.

But I wouldn't buy either a surface or an ipad, I'd personally rather buy a Framework laptop.

My point is that "a tablet OS" is more than enough for most people, and that even people in this thread are greatly underestimating what you can do on iPadOS (or whatever it's called these days). 

 

It's not just for movie watching even though that's what a lot of people use it for. It can run AudoCAD, FL Studio, Photoshop, Office 365 and so on. Some of them sre cut down versions, but out of the really small group of people who need these programs to begin with, only an even smaller group of people need the fully fledged versions. A lot of those people that do need the full fat version of these programs aren't really choosing between an iPad or a surface pro either. They are probably looking at mobile workstations or really beefy laptops, not tablets or 2-in-1.

[HenrySalayne]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

DAW - Completely possible to do on an iPad. It's actually very popular for that particular purpose. TouchOSC for example runs really well on iPads and is very popular. Not to mention things like GarageBand, FL Studio and Cubasis all works on the iPad.

 

Oh, it does? How do I get my Waves F6 to work? Or any of the gazillion plugins I own and use?

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

SDK - Not sure what you mean. Do you mean they are developers? It depends on what software development you're doing. Large projects of compiled code? Not idea on an iPad, although it's certainly not idea on a Surface Pro either. Smaller projects and non-compiled code? Totally possible. You just need a good text editor. I do agree that it would be easier on a Windows-based PC though, but most people are not programmers, and I doubt most Surface users are programmers either.

How to hammer in a screw. Why would anyone switch to an iPad and run software with a fraction of the functionality? Because it has a faster

SoC? It doesn't make any sense to give up a streamlined environment for "better hardware" and then work around all the restrictions imposed by the new software.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

CAD - exists on the iPad although in somewhat limited capabilities. Not like you'd want to do massive AutoCAD projects on the Surface Pro either. 

Which is exactly whats happening, because a workstation is rarely with you on site. And it may take a little bit longer to open some files, but who cares.

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What special needs do they have that can't be fulfilled on an M1 iPad?

Windows!

 

But I get it. You like the iPad and everybody else should use an iPad as well. Who needs the right tool for their work, if they have just a better product - made by Apple. Who cares about functionality or comfort, watching movies and browsing the web is way better on an iPad! And 90% of Surface users are too stupid to understand they actually needed an iPad.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Oh, it does? How do I get my Waves F6 to work? Or any of the gazillion plugins I own and use?

 

How to hammer in a screw. Why would anyone switch to an iPad and run software with a fraction of the functionality? Because it has a faster

SoC? It doesn't make any sense to give up a streamlined environment for "better hardware" and then work around all the restrictions imposed by the new software.

 

Which is exactly whats happening, because a workstation is rarely with you on site. And it may take a little bit longer to open some files, but who cares.

 

Windows!

 

But I get it. You like the iPad and everybody else should use an iPad as well. Who needs the right tool for their work, if they have just a better product - made by Apple. Who cares about functionality or comfort, watching movies and browsing the web is way better on an iPad! And 90% of Surface users are too stupid to understand they actually needed an iPad.

Hold on a minute. I am not the one saying "everyone should get an iPad because it is an iPad!".

I am advocating for people buying the cheapest and best tools for the job. You're the one saying "they should get a Surface because it has Windows, and they need Windows". My entire argument is that 90% of people do not need Windows. Sure, 10% might (the ones who need let's say an IDE and a console port) but those are a very small group of people. Those people, sure, they should get a Windows PC if they want (please note that I did not say Surface Pro). For the vast majority of people though, the iPad Pro will be a cheaper and faster device than the Surface Pro and it will do the things they need, better.

 

Can we at least agree that the majority of people don't run DAW, IDEs and CAD software on their computers?

Can we agree that the iPad Pro is cheaper and faster than the Surface Pro?

Can we agree that the needs of most people (let's say 90%) are satisfied by the iPad Pro?

[leadeater]

26 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Hold on a minute. I am not the one saying "everyone should get an iPad because it is an iPad!".

From memory the used market of iPads is quite good. Probably not actually a bad idea to buy an iPad first and see if you can get by with just that. Maybe you [general you] have a desktop so just use that as required.

 

iPads for what they are are in their entire own league, nothing comes close to usability and battery run times. There are amazingly good RDP apps on the App Store too, need Windows then RDP in to Windows with full screen and the iPad keyboard. Need better 3D acceleration, use one of the game stream apps and install that on your desktop.

 

The best Windows laptop is probably a remote session to your desktop from an iPad lol.

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The best Windows laptop is probably a remote session to your desktop from an iPad lol.

I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, iPads are really good and I think the people who pull up statistics like "most people use iPads as their web browser so therefore they are only capable of doing that" are dramatically underestimating the iPad. Especially now that iPadOS has gotten some more focus by third party developers.

[suicidalfranco]

Yeah would definitely go for the cheapest ipad over any of the surfaces. At least the experience on the ipad will be consistent.

18 minutes ago, leadeater said:

iPads for what they are are in their entire own league, nothing comes close to usability and battery run times. There are amazingly good RDP apps on the App Store too, need Windows then RDP in to Windows with full screen and the iPad keyboard. Need better 3D acceleration, use one of the game stream apps and install that on your desktop.

Really wish Apple had something has good as MS's rdp, instead of the awful vnc viewer macos comes with. Was thinking of replacing my macbook with the last Intel mac mini, and simply remote into it from an ipad. So before buying I tried to test that config using my macbook and an old ipad my uncle has. Instant nope xD

 

So now the ipad is a maybe buy, and giving purchase priority to the steam deck first, upgrading my desktop second, and framework laptop third. Gonna be an expensive year in tech, thank god I work in the oil field and covid never stopped my work

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I wouldn't go that far, but yeah, iPads are really good and I think the people who pull up statistics like "most people use iPads as their web browser so therefore they are only capable of doing that" are dramatically underestimating the iPad. Especially now that iPadOS has gotten some more focus by third party developers.

A bit of an overstatement yea but almost 10 years ago now I had students using iPads with RDS to Windows workstations using AutoDesk Inventor to do Vex robotics designs, it was actually better using the iPad because of the touch screen than sitting at the computer with the mouse.

 

There's an AutoDesk Fusion 360 iOS app now so probably not longer required and can be done directly on an iPad.

 

Laptops are just so costly for what they are, it's why I refuse to buy them.

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Really wish Apple had something has good as MS's rdp, instead of the awful vnc viewer macos comes with. Was thinking of replacing my macbook with the last Intel mac mini, and simply remote into it from an ipad. So before buying I tried to test that config using my macbook and an old ipad my uncle has. Instant nope xD

VNC to Mac OS is horrific, if you forget to disable fancy 3D screen saver then OMFG when you first connect. The epic struggle of getting it to register HID input to get the screen saver to go away lol.

 

Maybe try something like TeamViewer or Parsec?

[LAwLz]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Laptops are just so costly for what they are, it's why I refuse to buy them.

Yeah, and that's especially true for the Surface Pro.

i5-1135G7 (quad core at 2.4GHz)

8GB of RAM

128GB SSD

 

1100 USD.

Oh you want a keyboard with that? Then it's 1280 USD.

 

Meanwhile, the iPad 9 with 256GB of storage and Apple's "smart keyboard" is 640 USD. It's exactly half the price.

 

Of course there are some differences and to some it is an apples vs oranges comparison, but the point I have tried to hammer home in this thread is that all the things that makes the Surface Pro "better", are things most people don't care about.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Maybe try something like TeamViewer or Parsec?

Tried team, it's pretty much similar to vnc so gave up on it too. Parsec never heard of it

[IAmAndre]

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

16 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

most people ≠ Surface users

If Surface users aren't "most people", then who are Surface people? What special needs do they have that can't be fulfilled on an M1 iPad?

 

Professional users. For me, the only reason Microsoft can afford to sell their devices at such high prices is because a big chunk of their user base don't buy them with their own money. These are mostly provided by companies, who get them at a discounted price as part of a wider package. Integration with other Windows solutions, security, portability, and overall power are deciding factors.

 

It is indeed more convenient to install an IDE and code on a Surface that it will ever be on an iPad. There are no serious IDE's on MacOS and the environment and architecture are just different. And that's just an example.

 

16 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

In contrast, roughly 90% of the iPad owners don't even have a type cover. 

I can only repeat myself: any comparison between the Surface and an iPad is futile. Made-up numbers like "90% of the Surface users could switch to an iPad Pro" also aren't helping. 

Now this I totally disagree.

 

1) The iPad is a full range of products so you can't compare the base model to the iPad Pro. I'm pretty sure that a good 99% of the people who spend $1000+ on their iPad Pro get the keyboard with it, as opposed to the 12-year-olds getting an iPad Mini for their birthday. That's a totally unfair comparison. How many iPads are sold worldwide compared to the Surface devices? It would be interesting to just compare the number of keyboards sold worldwide.

 

2) Just because you're a professional doesn't mean that the Surface is made for you. Even if you are into 3D modeling, the iPad might be a better solution with its AR features.

 

With all that said, it's very hard for me to recommend the Surface to anyone who's actually spending money on it. I would say either get a 2-in-1 like the Dell XPS, which offers way better value, or just get a MacBook and you can even consider buying an iPad as it might still be cheaper.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Maybe try something like TeamViewer or Parsec?

Are we discussing remoting into a Mac or out of a Mac into Windows? For the latter there is the RDP client for macOS by Microsoft. For the other way round apparently Apple now has screen sharing integrated into the OS which works across all their platforms.

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Are we discussing remoting into a Mac or out of a Mac into Windows?

For that one in to Mac OS. Screen Sharing has been around for ages, it legit sucks.

[Dracarris]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

For that one in to Mac OS. Screen Sharing has been around for ages, it legit sucks.

Why exactly? Haven't used it myself tbh but didn't hear anything bad from people that used it.

[HenrySalayne]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I am advocating for people buying the cheapest and best tools for the job.

But 90% of Surface users didn't? 

 

22 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Well, what software do people who own Surface Pro devices run? Like I said, 90% of them will probably do just fine on an iPad. Keyword there being 90%. It's only a small minority of users who run the specialized software like CAD you mentioned. 

 

It really sounds like your saying 90% of Surface owners made an uneducated buying decision. 

 

I personally don't know anyone who has an Surface and doesn't need it. It is the best device FOR THEM. 

If all your friends spent the money on an Surface despite not needing it, you should probably look for new friends or start educating them.  

Your average Jane and Joe would not buy a Surface Pro and your Surface Pro users are not your average Jane and Joe. There is no brand recognition and it is heavily on the expensive side. I guess more than 90% of the costumers are either students or businesses or people working in research and science. At least in my experience. 

And 90% of an average demographic might love an iPad as their main computer. I'm not denying that. But these 90% also wouldn't buy an Surface. You can get a Asus G14 for the same price! 

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

You're the one saying "they should get a Surface because it has Windows, and they need Windows".

And please quote me on the exact spot where I said this. I'm not even advocating the Surface, I'm just pointing out that Surface costumers are Surface costumers for a reason. But this seems to be enough to start a holy war. 

[suicidalfranco]

25 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

Why exactly? Haven't used it myself tbh but didn't hear anything bad from people that used it.

Cause it's literally just a vnc server on the host and a vnc viewer on the guest. It doesn't have none of the perks of RDP (resizing the resolution to the guest's one, taking almost every keyboard shortcut and applying them to the host instead of the guest are a couple I can remember right now)

[LAwLz]

9 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

But 90% of Surface users didn't? 

No, I don't think they did.

 

 

10 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

It really sounds like your saying 90% of Surface owners made an uneducated buying decision. 

Yes, that is what I am saying.

 

11 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

I personally don't know anyone who has an Surface and doesn't need it. It is the best device FOR THEM. 

Okay, what do those people do that requires a Surface Pro? 

 

 

11 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

If all your friends spent the money on an Surface despite not needing it, you should probably look for new friends or start educating them.  

None of my friends has a Surface Pro so I don't need to educate them. Also, I am not the type of person who stops being friends with someone just because they might have wasted money or bought a sub-optimal thing for themselves.

 

 

12 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

Your average Jane and Joe would not buy a Surface Pro and your Surface Pro users are not your average Jane and Joe. There is no brand recognition and it is heavily on the expensive side. I guess more than 90% of the costumers are either students or businesses or people working in research and science. At least in my experience. 

1) You're making a pretty big assumption that most Surface Pro users are students, business people or working in research and science. I only know of a few people who has Surface devices. Most of them are office workers that could do just as well with a regular laptop, or even an iPad, because most of the stuff they do are either in Office 365 or in a browser. We have a Surface Pro at work and we bought it just because it seemed cool. Nowadays we use it alongside our Ekahau for site surveys, but we could have done that with an iPad as well if we had bought that instead. An iPad would have been better for this purpose even.

2) Most students could do just fine with an iPad instead of a Surface Pro. We area already seeing this trend and it is one of the contributing factors to why we see threads like "students don't understand the file system".

3) Most business people could do just fine with an iPad rather than a Surface Pro. They mostly do email and other office tasks. 

4) Researchers and science people will most likely not have a Surface Pro. In many cases, they do in fact use iPads. If they want to run some special software that requires a lot of horsepower they are very likely not going to do it on a tablet, regardless of whether or not the tablet is a Surface Pro or an iPad.

5) I think you're making a big assumption that, just because Surface isn't a well known brand, the people who buy it knows exactly what they need and want. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

And 90% of an average demographic might love an iPad as their main computer. I'm not denying that. But these 90% also wouldn't buy an Surface. You can get a Asus G14 for the same price! 

I was originally talking about the 90% of the average demographic, but honestly, I don't think the demographic for Surface Pro tablets is that different from the average population, so it should be a pretty big overlap there as well.

Also, who said anything about "main computer"? I certainly didn't.

 

23 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

And please quote me on the exact spot where I said this. I'm not even advocating the Surface, I'm just pointing out that Surface costumers are Surface costumers for a reason. But this seems to be enough to start a holy war. 

See:

12 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

15 hours ago, LAwLz said:

If Surface users aren't "most people", then who are Surface people? What special needs do they have that can't be fulfilled on an M1 iPad?

Windows!

 

 

 

Also, you have moved the goalpost so incredibly far it is hard to see the original spot it stood on anymore.

Let me remind you how the conversation started:

On 9/26/2021 at 9:27 PM, Qyygle said:

It's sad that after the original Surface upended the notion that you couldn't fit a full computer in tablet form, the M1 iPad Pro is showing if you want the most powerful 2-in-1, it'll be running iPad OS... and it's cheaper to boot

On 9/26/2021 at 11:07 PM, HenrySalayne said:

... and it will not run the software you need. There is always a catch. 

On 9/27/2021 at 12:06 AM, LAwLz said:

I think the iPad's selection of software is excellent. It is what most people need. 

Hell, even the games I want to play are available on iOS. That's probably not true for a lot of people, but I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the most commonly used software, or an equally good alternative, exists for the iPad. 

On 9/27/2021 at 10:39 AM, HenrySalayne said:

The native iPad port of most applications lacks a lot of the deeper functionality found on desktop computers. Heck, even the Mac port often loses vital functionality. 

If you are doing just some basic work like writing or smaller media editing, an iPad might be fine. CAD and other specialized tools? - no chance. 

But this thread is not about iPads and a comparisons is quite futile if someone cannot run the software they need. 

On 9/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, LAwLz said:

Well, CAD and "other specialized tools" are the 10% of software I didn't include in the "90% of the most commonly used software exists for iPads".

The "deeper functionality" you refer to is also the 10% that most people don't need.

 

If you need those things then yeah, an iPad is not for you. You are most likely in a very small minority though.

  

You made a blanket statement that software people need (no specific group of people specified) will not work on the iPad.

I said 90% of software most people (talking about the general population) will work on the iPad just fine, and even clarified that if you need some specific CAD software then sure, the iPad is not a good fit for you. Then you started posting about how the iPad is only suitable for "light workloads" and that implied that people only buy iPads to watch Netflix on the sofa.

Even when I asked you specifically which programs most people need (again, I used the word "most people" not "most Surface Pro users") you replied with vague categories rather than specific programs, and when I asked what separated Surface Pro users from "most people" you replied that Surface Pro users needs Windows, without any further explanation.

 

I feel like you tried to pull an "epic pwnage" by pointing out that the Surface Pro has a different software library than the iPad, but when I did not agree you had to backtrack and try to justify your previous comment.

 

It feels like I am arguing in circles here. Can we at least agree on these points?:

 

1) Most people in the world would be completely satisficed with using iPadOS instead of Windows for their everyday tasks.

2) The iPad is significantly cheaper than the Surface Pro while still offering similar or better performance.

3) If you got some special tool that won't run on iPadOS, you should probably not get an iPad. However, this group of people is really small.

4) You can do "serious work" on the iPad. Not just because "pro apps" exists for the iPad (some examples that have been mentioned, Ekahau, Photoshop, TouchOSC, GarageBand, FL Studio, Cubasis, Office 365, your browser) but also because there are ways around software limitations, such as RDP as leadeater pointed out.

5) Just because iPads are commonly used for things like web browsing or movie watching does not mean those are the only things they can do.

 

What we might disagree on is what the average Surface Pro user does on their computer and if they truly need a Surface Pro. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if most Surface Pro users could do just fine with an iPad instead. Even if there are Surface Pro owners that do need Windows for their work, I kinda doubt the Surface Pro is the specific device that is best suited for their needs. I wouldn't be surprised if some other Windows PC could suite their needs as well if not better. Like you said, barely anyone buys the Surface Pro without the keyboard. At that point you have to ask, why not just buy a laptop then?

 

[HenrySalayne]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

4) You can do "serious work" on the iPad. Not just because "pro apps" exists for the iPad (some examples that have been mentioned, Ekahau, Photoshop, TouchOSC, GarageBand, FL Studio, Cubasis, Office 365, your browser) but also because there are ways around software limitations, such as RDP as leadeater pointed out.

You completely missunderstood me here. You can do serious work with an iPad, no question about it. But you are advocating software as equal - like the DAWs -  which is missing a ton of features and is supporting only a few selected plugins. That paints a really distorted picture. It feels like the difference between Photoshop (which is also missing features on iPad or at least it was) and MS Paint. You can edit pictures with both programms, but they are not on the same level.

Other apps, more suited for the unique iPad features, might be way better. Take Liquidtext for example. A great app but it wouldn't work on a desktop.

 

[Jeppes]

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

My point is that "a tablet OS" is more than enough for most people, and that even people in this thread are greatly underestimating what you can do on iPadOS (or whatever it's called these days). 

 

It's not just for movie watching even though that's what a lot of people use it for. It can run AudoCAD, FL Studio, Photoshop, Office 365 and so on. Some of them sre cut down versions, but out of the really small group of people who need these programs to begin with, only an even smaller group of people need the fully fledged versions. A lot of those people that do need the full fat version of these programs aren't really choosing between an iPad or a surface pro either. They are probably looking at mobile workstations or really beefy laptops, not tablets or 2-in-1.

Ipados is garbage because they limit its usability. I guess we are still 5 years away from using an external display with ipad as it took a bit more for mouse support

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

You completely missunderstood me here. You can do serious work with an iPad, no question about it. But you are advocating software as equal - like the DAWs -  which is missing a ton of features and is supporting only a few selected plugins. That paints a really distorted picture. It feels like the difference between Photoshop (which is also missing features on iPad or at least it was) and MS Paint. You can edit pictures with both programms, but they are not on the same level.

Other apps, more suited for the unique iPad features, might be way better. Take Liquidtext for example. A great app but it wouldn't work on a desktop.

No I am not advocating the software as equal. Did you miss the part of my posts where I repeatedly said the iPad versions were missing some features? It feels like you only read half my posts sometimes. 

 

Also, I don't think the difference is as big as you paint them to be, and it highly depends on which program. 

 

Besides, like I've said countless of times, it's only a tiny minority of people that use programs like DAW and CAD software. The people who need those missing features is an even smaller subset of users. 

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Why exactly? Haven't used it myself tbh but didn't hear anything bad from people that used it.

Additional to the other points it's really bad over external access with VPNs, proving remote IT support to a Mac OS server is painful because of this. RDP doesn't have that problem, hell even Linux supports RDP now (host side).