Questions about Fractal Design Torrent case

[Milos Sladic]

• Since this case is one of the greatest air cooling case of all time, I have a couple of questions about what should I do. 
• Info: I will be using RTX 3070 Strix and NH-D15S.

 

1. Will I gain superior performance in every aspect if I replace 3x Dynamic GP-14 fans with my 3x NF-A14 PWM?
2. Will adding another NF-A14 PWM to the back increase the cooling?
3. Should I add some 5 cm risers under its 4 feet to increase the air space under the case?
4. When will this case be released in Europe?

 

 

[Chris Pratt]

As Steve from. Gamer's Nexus said in his review. The entire value of the case is tied up in the fans. If you're going to rip them out and replace them with something else, it's just a waste of money. The included fans actually outperform anything Noctua has, anyways, because of their size and thickness.

[Milos Sladic]

3 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

As Steve from. Gamer's Nexus said in his review. The entire value of the case is tied up in the fans. If you're going to rip them out and replace them with something else, it's just a waste of money. The included fans actually outperform anything Noctua has, anyways, because of their size and thickness.

• How is it wasted money when I am gonna get 40$ back when I sell 3x Dynamic GP-14.
• lol how in gods name will Dynamic GP-14 outperform the NF-A14? 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Isn't the nf a14 old tech by now? Its already been surpassed by budget fans like the p14.

 

 

Either way the performance improvement would probably be marginal at best if those a14s are the industrial ippc 3k rpm versions. 

[HM-2]

6 hours ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

Isn't the nf a14 old tech by now? Its already been surpassed by budget fans like the p14.

That's not really "outperformed"; frankly that comparison is highly misleading to the point of being utterly useless as every single fan in that shootout is well within the  margin of error.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

18 minutes ago, HM-2 said:

That's not really "outperformed"; frankly that comparison is highly misleading to the point of being utterly useless as every single fan in that shootout is well within the  margin of error.

 

That would mean the cheaper fans performs as good as the nf a14.

[HM-2]

55 minutes ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

That would mean the cheaper fans performs as good as the nf a14.

No it wouldn't. What it means is that, in their particular test bench, it doesn't matter what fans you use as they all perform pretty much the same.

 

Trying to extrapolate from such an inherently poor test to determine which is "better" for a completely different use case is at best misguided and at worst downright wrong.

 

 

 

 

That said, the P14s are very good fans, especially for the price.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

27 minutes ago, HM-2 said:

No it wouldn't. What it means is that, in their particular test bench, it doesn't matter what fans you use as they all perform pretty much the same.

 

Trying to extrapolate from such an inherently poor test to determine which is "better" for a completely different use case is at best misguided and at worst downright wrong.

 

 

 

 

That said, the P14s are very good fans, especially for the price.

 

The test was done to compare performance between the fans.

 

In this context we would be wanting to know how much better the nf-a14s would be and the real world test showed marginal difference by what you took out of the results. 

 

if you want a case airflow test it is here too: 

 

And as the results show the nf a14s do not perform as their price would seem to suggest. 

 

 I don't understand the baseless assumptions you're making about the test being flawed. Pressure tests show how much air can move when the air path is not clear and in the torrent case where ALL fan intakes are restricted with a fine dust filter, the radiator test will tell us more about fan performance. 

 

I don't see the need to defend nf a14. And I don't see the need for conflict here. Do not take this as a post to bash noctua if that's what you're looking for. The nf a14s are simply not that great anymore. I should know, I have them too. 

[HM-2]

2 hours ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

The test was done to compare performance between the fans.

I know what the purpose of the test was. My point is that the testing methodology doesn't actually distinguish between the fans, and therefore is useless.

 

If you test 5 fans and all end up within margin of error of each other, that doesn't necessarily mean the 5 fans have similar performance. It most likely means your testing methodology is flawed. The second video is exactly the same; all of the fans are within margin of error of each other across almost every metric.

 

 

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that this is a "defence" of the A14. It's not. I'm simply pointing out that the reviews you've cited here are self evidently flawed at drawing distinctions between the fans they're testing.

[thrasher_565]

13 hours ago, HM-2 said:

I know what the purpose of the test was. My point is that the testing methodology doesn't actually distinguish between the fans, and therefore is useless.

 

If you test 5 fans and all end up within margin of error of each other, that doesn't necessarily mean the 5 fans have similar performance. It most likely means your testing methodology is flawed. The second video is exactly the same; all of the fans are within margin of error of each other across almost every metric.

 

 

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that this is a "defence" of the A14. It's not. I'm simply pointing out that the reviews you've cited here are self evidently flawed at drawing distinctions between the fans they're testing.

years of testing has been dont and they all came to the concussion that there test was not good enough. gn has stated this at times too. thats why in the futcher he wats to buy an 30,000 peace to test fans with. until then all we can do is the paper test, match the rpm, see what temps the hardware can drop (i no a case will effect the fans performance)

 

back then they tried the garbage bag to see witch fan fills it the fastest. i think there was a way to push water at some point too. anything on the manufacturers box all the ratings are meaningless and lies.  same gos for tdp and well dbs. just because it hs a higher dbs dose not mean its louder. the pitch also matters

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by thrasher_565

[HM-2]

A relatively meaningful "quick and dirty" test for ease of comparison would probably be something like 

• Cooling performance and sound volume at maximum speed.
• Sound volume and RPM for a given cooling performance (IE fan speed and sound required to maintain 70°C temperature)
• Cooling performance and RPM for a given sound volume (say sub-35db)
• Sound volume and cooling performance for a given RPM (how do these fans cool at 1,000rpm)

Picking one metric from that list to determine "which is better" is a bit meaningless, because it depends on your use case. A fan that's maintaining 70°C at 1500rpm and 41db might also do so at 900rpm and 32db, and most people would consider it "better" than a fan that maintained 70°C at 1500rpm and 39db, but couldn't maintain that temperature at 1200rpm when it was producing 35db.

[tkitch]

go rewatch the GN video for the case.

 

If you just plan to replace fans there are other cases that do just as good, or even a bit better.  

 

If you wanna use the included fans, get it.  Or if you like the look, get it.  

[NorKris]

On 8/21/2021 at 3:53 PM, Chris Pratt said:

The included fans actually outperform anything Noctua has, anyways, because of their size and thickness.

If im not mistaken the 14cm fans are the same thicknes as a normal fan. aka the noctua is prob better. 

[NorKris]

On 8/22/2021 at 1:18 PM, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

 

The test was done to compare performance between the fans.

 

In this context we would be wanting to know how much better the nf-a14s would be and the real world test showed marginal difference by what you took out of the results. 

 

if you want a case airflow test it is here too: 

 

And as the results show the nf a14s do not perform as their price would seem to suggest. 

I don't understand the baseless assumptions you're making about the test being flawed. Pressure tests show how much air can move when the air path is not clear and in the torrent case where ALL fan intakes are restricted with a fine dust filter, the radiator test will tell us more about fan performance. 

I don't see the need to defend nf a14. And I don't see the need for conflict here. Do not take this as a post to bash noctua if that's what you're looking for. The nf a14s are simply not that great anymore. I should know, I have them too. 

I would say i kinda agree with you. but please please dont use that guy as a source. he is terrible, and does not understand what he is talking about. 

[Ravendarat]

Maybe its just me but it seems like in this scenario the gains, if any from replacing the included fans with anything else is going to be such a small margin of gain that it wouldn't be worth spending a dime to do, especially given the gear the OP is planning on using. Hes got a great air cooler for the CPU and a gpu with a good board partner cooler so I cant imagine there would be a measurable difference here that would equal any real world benefit. 

[wildgg]

On 8/21/2021 at 2:59 PM, MS1993 said:

• Since this case is one of the greatest air cooling case of all time, I have a couple of questions about what should I do. 
• Info: I will be using RTX 3070 Strix and NH-D15S.

 

1. Will I gain superior performance in every aspect if I replace 3x Dynamic GP-14 fans with my 3x NF-A14 PWM?
2. Will adding another NF-A14 PWM to the back increase the cooling?
3. Should I add some 5 cm risers under its 4 feet to increase the air space under the case?
4. When will this case be released in Europe?

 

 

 

1. no

2. yes but not allot, 1/2C (i've have tested this with a Noctua A14 in the back at 500rpm) keep in mind that this temp drop depends on how much heat your gpu outputs.

3. no
4. It is out in the EU for a couple of days now, i've bought mine in the Netherlands a day after release.

My build/review is in my signature if you're interested.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

8 hours ago, NorKris said:

he is terrible, and does not understand what he is talking about. 

 

Sure but I'll need a you to state your reasons.

[NorKris]

6 hours ago, Kinda Bottlenecked said:

 

Sure but I'll need a you to state your reasons.

for why you should never ever listen to this guy?
well he claims that delta t over ambient / temp over ambient is not what you should be looking at. He also runs his AIO tests for only 5 - 10m (if i remember correctly) and that is not long enough

[Milos Sladic]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:05 PM, tkitch said:

If you just plan to replace fans there are other cases that do just as good, or even a bit better.  

@tkitch What are those cases that offer superior ariflow to the torrent? Coz obviously I want that. I don't care about fans, I am always replacing all of them with noctuas anyway.

[tkitch]

Go watch the GN review of the Torrent.  There were at least a few cases that were just as good / better,  Significantly so, after swapping in noctuas for the standardized tests.

[Milos Sladic]

@tkitch

 

Lol what an idiot would put only 3 fans in the torrent and call it a day?

There is simply no case in that chart that could beat torrent as I see it with its 2x180mm, 3x140 noctua and 1x140 noctua at the back.

 

[Karimento]

I was looking for info on this here, but apparently there is a small manufacturing flaw in the included fan hub, so be aware.

 

https://internal.fractal-design.com/support/solutions/articles/4000175681-important-message-replacement-of-fan-hubs-in-torrent-case-series-08-27-

[tkitch]

23 minutes ago, Karimento said:

I was looking for info on this here, but apparently there is a small manufacturing flaw in the included fan hub, so be aware.

 

https://internal.fractal-design.com/support/solutions/articles/4000175681-important-message-replacement-of-fan-hubs-in-torrent-case-series-08-27-

....  Things NZXT should learn from.  

[Karimento]

And gigabyte... ahem...