Google Sued by 36 states over Play Store fees

[Lanrick]

Summary

 On Wednesday, 36 states and Washington DC filed a lawsuit in a California federal court over Google's Play Store 30 percent commission fees. The lawsuit is similar to the lawsuit that was filed in August of 2020 by Epic Games to both Apple and Google. This has more teeth because the lawsuit is coming from state-level regulators.

 

Quotes

Quote

 The lawsuit, filed by 36 states and Washington, DC, in California federal court, challenges Google’s policy forcing Google Play app developers to pay a 30 percent commission fee on sales made through the app. Google recently expanded the fees to cover more digital goods purchased on the Play Store, taking particular aim at a number of prominent apps that had previously been able to sidestep the tax. The full complaint, which you can view here or at the bottom of this article, lists the defendants as Google, Alphabet, and subsidiaries in Ireland and Asia.

 

In August, Fortnite developer Epic Games sued Google on similar grounds, claiming that the company’s practices have raised prices for consumers online, although the lawsuit was largely overshadowed by Epic’s parallel case against Apple and its App Store. Still, the state AGs’ lawsuit is likely to have more force, coming from designated state-level regulators.

 

My thoughts

This situation has been crazy but due to the nature of the times that we are in with Big Tech being on the wrong side of Anti-Trust laws, this might actually go through. We will just need to see if the court system will take this case or not. 

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/7/22567532/google-play-store-antitrust-lawsuit-state-ag-app-fees

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/states-bring-new-antitrust-suit-google-mobile-app-store-rcna1364

[Jeppes]

You dont have to use Play store. Large app makers could easily team up and make a co-op app store where they pay only 3% fees and sell their apps cheaper. People would migrate to that.

[Lurick]

14 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

You dont have to use Play store. Large app makers could easily team up and make a co-op app store where they pay only 3% fees and sell their apps cheaper. People would migrate to that.

There are numerous app stores you can load on Android devices very easily. Samsung has one, Amazon has one, etc. so there is nothing stopping people from using others anyway. Sure Play Store is the default on Android but at least they don't block you from using other app stores so not sure why they are going after Google for this and not Apple?

[lewdicrous]

I wonder how the fact that they reduced it to 15% for applicable devs(?) would affect this lawsuit.

Quote

Service fees

Apps and in-app products sold through Google Play are subject to a service fee. As of July 1, 2021, that service fee is equivalent to:

• If enrolled in the 15% service fee tier: 
  • 15% for the first $1M (USD) of earnings each year, 
  • 30% for earnings in excess of $1M (USD) each year.
• For developers who are not enrolled in the 15% service fee tier, the service fee is 30%.
• For subscription products purchased by subscribers you retain after 12 paid months, the service fee is 15%. 

The following count towards a user's 12 paid months:

• Subscribers within a grace period
• Subscribers who recover from an account hold, grace period, pause, or subscription restore
• Subscribers with introductory pricing
• Subscribers who upgrade or downgrade to a different plan
• Subscribers who re-sign up within two months of canceling

The following do not count towards a user’s 12 paid months:

• Free trials
• Refunded purchases
• Time in account hold
• Deferred time (using deferred billing via the Google Play Developer API)

https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/112622?hl=en

 

[wanderingfool2]

Not sure how I feel about this.  I do agree that some of the aspects that Google does should not be allowed, but at the same time there is quite a difference between lets say Apple vs Android in this department.

 

The filing itself says that 2017, there was 90% of Android Apps downloaded from Play Store...while it is a majority, it does at least show that there are other alternatives.  A major reason I use Play Store over Samsung store is because Samsung's store is annoying to use (in my opinion).  I have also side loaded a few apps (when I needed older versions).

 

The lawsuit makes it as though the warnings and cumbersome nature of allowing side-loading is a bad thing (for me, the average user will go through the prompts and realize what they are doing might not be the smartest thing, which I agree with).  I actually find it funny how they say that millions of PC users safely download programs on their computer ever day...given the amount of calls I get from users, they are not doing it in a safe manor.

 

Actually the numbers they showed seems to imply it's 8x more likely to get a PHA from outside of the play store, while also arguing that it's only power users and users who know what they are doing who download outside of the playstore...so imagine if it was everyday people who did.

 

With that  said, there are merits to some of the arguments, and I do believe that Google shouldn't be allowed to make all the decisions they currently are...but at the same time they are asking for more than what Apple is up against.

[PocketNerd]

11 minutes ago, Lurick said:

There are numerous app stores you can load on Android devices very easily. Samsung has one, Amazon has one, etc. so there is nothing stopping people from using others anyway. Sure Play Store is the default on Android but at least they don't block you from using other app stores so not sure why they are going after Google for this and not Apple?

This is basically an Internet Explorer problem. Sure, the savvy of us know other stores are available and how to get them. But average Joe only knows about Google Play because it's installed by default and the consumer isn't given a choice at setup.

[wanderingfool2]

19 minutes ago, PocketNerd said:

This is basically an Internet Explorer problem. Sure, the savvy of us know other stores are available and how to get them. But average Joe only knows about Google Play because it's installed by default and the consumer isn't given a choice at setup.

The Samsung store is loaded by default on Samsung devices...it even prompts me every now and then at the beginning...so for the non-savvy user there are other alternatives (it's just I find those other alternatives just annoy people)

[Tallgeese]

This argument always burns my toast. While I do agree more money going to Devs is always nice, google does atleast allow other app stores on their devices, and even side loading of apps. Yes, the google play store is married to the entire G-Suite, but in all fairness some of the google play store money helps support continued updates to the entire g-suite (of course ads are their primary income). 

 

It still blows me away google keeps coming under fire for the play store in general while apple does the same things (see revenue share), or worse (no other market places) and somehow keeps trotting along.

 

I would LOVE to see apple allow sideloading, but I highly doubt the epic case will spur that. It'll take another antitrust investigation to get that pushed through, which hopefully the epic store lawsuit spurs.

[JP!]

Apple is much worst i agree, but outside of US, UK and Australia Apple is not relevant in the mobile market. I believe the market share is around 85% Android 15% iOS.

 

Maybe in the case of US States is related to Chromebook usage in schools?

 

JP

[suicidalfranco]

38 minutes ago, JP! said:

Apple is much worst i agree, but outside of US, UK and Australia Apple is not relevant in the mobile market. I believe the market share is around 85% Android 15% iOS.

 

Maybe in the case of US States is related to Chromebook usage in schools?

 

JP

Antitrust only check the domestic situation, they don't give a damn about the state of affairs globally, rightfully so.

[Taf the Ghost]

I would assume this is more of a "force a settlement" type of suit. Seems strange to bring this one against Google, but it's about money, in the end. And everyone generally just hates Google, so I can see how this would get sorted out.

 

Okay, copy & paste from the PDF is being a pain, but apparently there's a lot more that's been going on behind the scenes. Pages 44 and on get into the details. (Man, a lot of this complaint is redacted.) Weirdly, this all goes back to Epic. Apparently, the Samsung-Epic dealings for Fortnite has lead to most of this. Google was going way out of its way to prevent Samsung's store from being developed, and, consequential, to keep Epic from developing its own platforms further. 

 

This one is going to have legs. But it's going to be years.

[Fasterthannothing]

Android literally allows competitors app stores on their devices such as Amazon app store... Case Closed

[Tallgeese]

30 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I would assume this is more of a "force a settlement" type of suit. Seems strange to bring this one against Google, but it's about money, in the end. And everyone generally just hates Google, so I can see how this would get sorted out.

 

Okay, copy & paste from the PDF is being a pain, but apparently there's a lot more that's been going on behind the scenes. Pages 44 and on get into the details. (Man, a lot of this complaint is redacted.) Weirdly, this all goes back to Epic. Apparently, the Samsung-Epic dealings for Fortnite has lead to most of this. Google was going way out of its way to prevent Samsung's store from being developed, and, consequential, to keep Epic from developing its own platforms further. 

 

This one is going to have legs. But it's going to be years.

Yeah, I totally see this as an easy money grab, or trying to spur the courts to break up google (again). But I always refer back 2018 when Europe sued google for "forcing" the gsuite with playstore (basically all or nothing). There was a big google payout, but then google came out and said "fine, europe, I use to provide gsuite for free, but I'll give phone makers the option to break it up for a per phone license fee, or you can keep it all for free". 

 

Google is smart and they are going to keep theirs. Now, if they did in fact do anti-competitive practices like the news articles are saying, then they will definitely get thrown in the fire for that.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, Tallgeese said:

Yeah, I totally see this as an easy money grab, or trying to spur the courts to break up google (again). But I always refer back 2018 when Europe sued google for "forcing" the gsuite with playstore (basically all or nothing). There was a big google payout, but then google came out and said "fine, europe, I use to provide gsuite for free, but I'll give phone makers the option to break it up for a per phone license fee, or you can keep it all for free". 

 

Google is smart and they are going to keep theirs. Now, if they did in fact do anti-competitive practices like the news articles are saying, then they will definitely get thrown in the fire for that.

The Samsung testimonies will be the big thing. As pointed out in the filing, Samsung is the major player in the high-end Android market in the USA. As a result, Google put a lot of effort into keeping them locked down and the Play Store revenue coming in. Can read the file, just go to page 44 and then read down a bit. Like I said, this clearly has a lot more legs than I first thought.

[Bombastinator]

7 hours ago, The_Tuba_Titan said:

Summary

 On Wednesday, 36 states and Washington DC filed a lawsuit in a California federal court over Google's Play Store 30 percent commission fees. The lawsuit is similar to the lawsuit that was filed in August of 2020 by Epic Games to both Apple and Google. This has more teeth because the lawsuit is coming from state-level regulators.

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

This situation has been crazy but due to the nature of the times that we are in with Big Tech being on the wrong side of Anti-Trust laws, this might actually go through. We will just need to see if the court system will take this case or not. 

 

Sources

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/7/22567532/google-play-store-antitrust-lawsuit-state-ag-app-fees

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/states-bring-new-antitrust-suit-google-mobile-app-store-rcna1364

I wonder if this will turn out like the tobacco lawsuit.  That one turned into a shitshow because the defendants got to pay over time and the states needed the money so badly they did a bond thing where the states actually wound up having to defend big tobacco and attack ecigs if they wanted to get paid.

[Taf the Ghost]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I wonder if this will turn out like the tobacco lawsuit.  That one turned into a shitshow because the defendants got to pay over time and the states needed the money so badly they did a bond thing where the states actually wound up having to defend big tobacco and attack ecigs if they wanted to get paid.

The 1998 Tobacco Company settlement is one of the greatest pieces of lawyering ever to happen in the USA. It was such a consequential victory for the Tobacco companies that new companies willingly joined the settlement and States actively defend it.

 

I honestly hope the States don't get out lawyered as badly with Google. Granted, with how badly the Tobacco settlement ended up being for them, it's hard to screw up that badly.

[Video Beagle]

I don't see how this has any legs.

"We don't want to pay that much." isn't an argument that's going to have any legal standing.

 

[mr moose]

16 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

I don't see how this has any legs.

"We don't want to pay that much." isn't an argument that's going to have any legal standing.

 

Like the apple lawsuit, it is more about the power google have over the consumer and developers than it is about the cut,  the profit cut is just a very good way to quantify the motive of a monopoly.  A financial value is required to determine/argue the amount of damage. 

[Arika]

I wonder if this will stop the "but google" arguments when the Apple app store comes up.

[WolframaticAlpha]

18 hours ago, Lurick said:

There are numerous app stores you can load on Android devices very easily. Samsung has one, Amazon has one, etc. so there is nothing stopping people from using others anyway. Sure Play Store is the default on Android but at least they don't block you from using other app stores so not sure why they are going after Google for this and not Apple?

The solution won't be solved if you just switch to another app store. You need to get your own commerce engine, maintain your marketing, login, something similar to other gservices etc. The states want to apple to just roll back its fees and/or allow external app stores, whereas they want to break down google's individual products, to allow for competition and prevent flanking and bundling.