Will crypto madness end?

[oskar23]

Hey

Im totally blown away that something that you cant have in your hand has such high value like bitcoin and many other abstract coins. Where is logic behind it? Can government ban that down the road? Im not sure if people mine that to exchange for dollars or just mine to hold. I hear a lot of speculations that dollar value will go to 0 due to crazy amount of money that was printed out last year. Whats your take on any of that people? What currency will we have in few years? Is it worth to keep dollars or buy gold/silver instead?

[SorryBella]

7 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

"I hear a lot of speculations that dollar value will go to 0 due to crazy amount of money that was printed out last year"

POV: You saw the guy who wrote that speculation

 

Itll take more than just money printing to take down US dollars, to be frank. The feds have backup plans atop backup plans to keep USD afloats, this is not Zimbabwe where the president literally sell the gold from the reserve for his jet set life.

 

10 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

Where is logic behind it?

Simply the fact that we need a monetary currency thats completely detached from the outside influence, or atleast back then its that. Now cryptos rationale is in privacy on how you can spend it or when you can convert it to money without basically everyone going on whatever you did with it.

 

12 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

Can government ban that down the road?

Yes but what for?

Does it cause harm? No.

Is it taxable? Yes.

So of course cryptos will be legalized simply because you can tack in another revenue stream to it.

 

13 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

Im not sure if people mine that to exchange for dollars or just mine to hold.

90% of the time, the former. The other 10% is an actual sales. Mining to hold is genuinely dumb as crypto spikes will destroy your investment.

[Arika]

31 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

I hear a lot of speculations that dollar value will go to 0 due to crazy amount of money that was printed out last year.

it's not worth listening to those people because they are morons.

 

31 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

What currency will we have in few years?

the same currency that your particular country has been using for the last n number of years.

 

31 minutes ago, oskar23 said:

or buy gold/silver instead?

and do what with it? Can't buy groceries with gold, can't pay your rent with silver.

 

 

If the economy gets to a point where people need to revert back to bartering and trading in gold then you will have much bigger problems than Cryptocurrencies stealing all your GPUZ.

[12345678]

1 hour ago, SorryClaire said:

POV: You saw the guy who wrote that speculation

 

Itll take more than just money printing to take down US dollars, to be frank. The feds have backup plans atop backup plans to keep USD afloats, this is not Zimbabwe where the president literally sell the gold from the reserve for his jet set life.

 

Simply the fact that we need a monetary currency thats completely detached from the outside influence, or atleast back then its that. Now cryptos rationale is in privacy on how you can spend it or when you can convert it to money without basically everyone going on whatever you did with it.

ehm in reality most of the crypto's transactions are public

1 hour ago, SorryClaire said:

Is it taxable? Yes.

it depends from the state

though the good thing of cryptos is that you could more easily avoid taxations

the nft boom is not just a coincidence lol

[WereCatf]

1 hour ago, oskar23 said:

Can government ban that down the road?

I'll just ignore every else and reply to this part: sure, governments can ban cryptocoins. That said, it won't stop people from mining and using them. It's not like people go and ask for governments' permission even as-is, so why would they do it in the future?

[Letgomyleghoe]

1 hour ago, SorryClaire said:

where the president literally sell the gold from the reserve for his jet set life.

The us doesn't even have reserve anymore, the US dollar isn't backed by anything more than a dream and a prayer.

28 minutes ago, 12345678 said:

ehm in reality most of the crypto's transactions are public

public in that you can see the wallet id in which the crypto was sent and received, nothing more. Most smart people use multiple different wallet id's and or change them frequently so this isn't an issue.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 hours ago, oskar23 said:

I hear a lot of speculations that dollar value will go to 0 due to crazy amount of money that was printed out last year.

1. those people are stupid

2. The usd isnt backed anymore, theoretically it should already be worthless

3. even if the amount printed inflated the worth proportionately, its still wouldn't be worth nothing

2 hours ago, oskar23 said:

What currency will we have in few years?

The usd (if your in teh usa)

2 hours ago, oskar23 said:

Is it worth to keep dollars or buy gold/silver instead?

you should kjeep dollars. Its not liek you can buy anything with straight gold

[Moonzy]

2 hours ago, oskar23 said:

Is it worth to keep dollars or buy gold/silver instead?

The obvious answer:

 

Am not a financial advisor and you're buying at your own risk

[SorryBella]

1 hour ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

The us doesn't even have reserve anymore, the US dollar isn't backed by anything more than a dream and a prayer.

I genuinely forgot that theyve swapped to Fiat money since forever.

[lewdicrous]

A bunch of companies are involved in certain aspects of crypto; from accepting it as a form of payment, to using it as reserve assets.

It's not going anywhere, it's here to stay, etc.

[rafe_28]

Crypto is the future because of its decentralized systems. And thats not a bad thing imo. Tho the trend from PoW systems is fading away and heading towards a PoS system, which is build around trust circles and stuff and not crunching numbers in a PC with some hashing algorithm to perform a Transaction and keep the blockchain going, meaning GPU mining is probably never gonna be as big again with electricity cost rising etc. Also when you hold a dollar its only worth something because you believe its worth something. Its the trust of companies goverments and people thag give currency values. Lets say u only pay digitally with physical money which in the end only represents a value again and doesnt actually have one it will be just like paying with crypto but through a more taxable, centralized, goverment controlled way. The physical appearence of money is 100% gonna fade away so why not use some transparent dezentralized currency then?

[captain_to_fire]

10 hours ago, oskar23 said:

Can government ban that down the road?

They can try but they probably won't succeed. They can try taxing it though.

10 hours ago, oskar23 said:

I hear a lot of speculations that dollar value will go to 0 due to crazy amount of money that was printed out last year.

It's called inflation and cryptocurrencies had nothing to do with this. [here] [here] Booms and busts have occurred for the past 100 years, even way before any cryptocurrency existed.

10 hours ago, oskar23 said:

Is it worth to keep dollars or buy gold/silver instead?

Economic problems persisted even when the gold standard is a thing so I can't see a reason why would the US or any country would bring it back.

 

[asquirrel]

@oskar23 When will the crypto madness end? Probably by the end of the year. There's always a bit of randomness, but we've already had one bull run up to 60k. Right now, money is flowing out into altcoins. Look at siacoin, doge, litecoin, vertcoin, etc. A LOT of well known 2017 altcoins got a HUGE pump within the past two weeks. Siacoin, for example, is up 20x from it's low around a year ago. This means we *should* still be near the beginning of the crypto surge. The rough order from previous crypto surges I've seen (starting from the previous ATH price) is:

 

1. Rapid BTC selloff.

2. Altcoin trading ratios (1 doge = 0.0XXXXXX BTC) go up at around a 2-day lag from BTC. So, basically, if you were hodling DOGE then it would hit the best trading ratio to BTC (the most BTC for your doge) 2 days after BTC's ATH and subsequent crash. This happens because some people try to shift their BTC to altcoins to hodl the value without losing as much. Basically, hedging their losses.

3. For the next year, the BTC price tumbles, slowing down after 3 months, but having a 9 month tail until it hits the new 'all time low' for this interval.

4. During this same timeframe, altcoin trading ratios and prices tumble as well, far faster and more dramatically than BTC in most cases. A HUGE part of what makes that 9 month long tail is people selling their altcoins for BTC, then selling the BTC, to try and recover some of their 'lost' capital.

5. At 1 year post crash, we hit rock bottom, and the next bubble starts building. This was around $3k/BTC back in 2019. Or $230 in 2016.

6. BTC rises, sometimes slow, sometimes fast, building hype. Once BTC crosses its old ATH, people start investing into altcoins. In 2017, this happened basically the same day/week that BTC crossed $1000 for the second time ever. In 2020/2021, it didn't happen for 2-3 months after BTC crossed its old ATH.

7. BTC rises, but there are frequent and dramatic 'dips' which people panic and FOMO over, but almost all of these are due to BTC being traded for altcoins in huge volumes, which temporarily creates a large supply of BTC needing to be bought, driving the price down.

8. Eventually, around 1 year after the all-time-low for this cycle (~$3200 for BTC this time around), on a logarithmic scale the price of BTC will go vertical or near-vertical and the bubble will pop within a month or two of that happening. Return to step 1.

 

This is not financial advice. I am not a financial advisor.

 

And, because I'm me, here's the dashboard I made for tracking these BTC/altcoin phenomena I talk about before I got more recent data:

 

And here's the trading price of siacoin during that same interval (it's in that stackup, but here it is by itself)

 

and here's more recent data (note the top of the graph changed from 25k to 80k, this is automatically done).

 

and the siacoin:

[tikker]

15 hours ago, SorryClaire said:

Mining to hold is genuinely dumb as crypto spikes will destroy your investment.

I'd argue the opposite. It's essentially DCA-ing a bit every day. The only way your investment will be "destroyed" is if it has cost you more in elecitricity costs than what the amount mined nets you and it kept going downhill. So far holding the big cryptos like BTC and ETH long term has turned out to be rather lucrative.

 

15 hours ago, oskar23 said:

Im totally blown away that something that you cant have in your hand has such high value like bitcoin and many other abstract coins. Where is logic behind it?

Bitcoin is for all intents and purposes the first, that combined with its limited amount is why it's worth a lot currently. Besides Bitcoin there are tons of other coins that all have their own intended purposes. Some try to be a currency in the traditional sense (e.g. like we use our fiat currently) and others are simply a currency in a specific network that aims to provide something else.

  

15 hours ago, oskar23 said:

Whats your take on any of that people? What currency will we have in few years? Is it worth to keep dollars or buy gold/silver instead?

The same currency we have now, with maybe some extra. The world isn't going to hell, crypto won't replace fiat in a mere few years. Keep your dollars to do your every day business, but gold/silver/stocks/crypto/whatever if you like investing and want to either maintain value or accumulate (some) wealth over time.

[da na]

Undoubtedly eventually crypto will crash/mining will become too expensive. But it could be decades. However, theres only a certain amount of each crypto out there - so there's not infinite left to mine, and it'll just be traded.

[rafe_28]

2 minutes ago, kalistoo said:

bitcoin seems the most stable

Now wait till Elon tweets "Doge barking at the moon" again KEKW

[FRD]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:45 AM, oskar23 said:

Hey

Im totally blown away that something that you cant have in your hand has such high value like bitcoin and many other abstract coins. Where is logic behind it? Can government ban that down the road? Im not sure if people mine that to exchange for dollars or just mine to hold. I hear a lot of speculations that dollar value will go to 0 due to crazy amount of money that was printed out last year. Whats your take on any of that people? What currency will we have in few years? Is it worth to keep dollars or buy gold/silver instead?

I agree with you. I don't see the point really of investing in something that's digital and just numbers on your screen. Of course in the end you see them on your bank account, but not until you withdraw the money. Basically you have nothing if it's not in your hands yet.

Also, buying gold is a good investment. It's stable and always holds its value, it just won't rise up in price that easily.

[rafe_28]

8 minutes ago, FRD said:

I don't see the point really of investing in something that's digital and just numbers on your screen

That again. As i said. Something is only worth anything because you believe it is and have trust in it. The crypto currency market is very unstable and unpredictable but non the less something you should ignore since it can be a huge sector to make profits on, invest long term or even future proof yourself if it becomes even more popular. Ignoring it because its "not real" is not good. It is no more no less than a FIAT currency but Better imo

[tikker]

31 minutes ago, FRD said:

I agree with you. I don't see the point really of investing in something that's digital and just numbers on your screen. Of course in the end you see them on your bank account, but not until you withdraw the money. Basically you have nothing if it's not in your hands yet.

Also, buying gold is a good investment. It's stable and always holds its value, it just won't rise up in price that easily.

You do realise your bank account is also nothing but numbers on your screen right? They don't even have all of your money most of the time. If everyone decided to withdraw all their money there would be repercussions due to how banking works. Gold seems like a good investement if you want store of value as it's so stable. If you go for gold or precious metals also make sure you actually get a chunk of that metal, otherwise you just have some IOU saying you alledgedly own some. Some people like more risky endeavours and want to gain value, making crypto a completely valid investment.

4 hours ago, kalistoo said:

sounds crazy, but bitcoin seems the most stable currency, it's our future, I think that right it's the safest way for keeping money.

I wouldn't call Bitcoin stable exactly... nor the safest way to keep money for that matter.

[wasab]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

I wouldn't call Bitcoin stable exactly... nor the safest way to keep money for that matter.

It isn't. They can't be real currency because their price fluctuate faster than the stock market. 

 

[FRD]

4 hours ago, rafe_28 said:

That again. As i said. Something is only worth anything because you believe it is and have trust in it. The crypto currency market is very unstable and unpredictable but non the less something you should ignore since it can be a huge sector to make profits on, invest long term or even future proof yourself if it becomes even more popular. Ignoring it because its "not real" is not good. It is no more no less than a FIAT currency but Better imo

Yes, trust is a big factor here. I've heard plenty of stories about people who lost their Bitcoin codes or whatever they are called to be able to access their funds. You would have to be a neat person. lol

Anyway, it is a good way to make profit. If you're fine with investing, like any investment it's putting your money on the line and earning or losing money after all. I personally think it's okay, but I wouldn't want to see it in the future. Maybe it's just me, but my trust is not big enough in digital currencies or digital money management in general. I prefer the good old cash in hand, there's just something in the charm of handling real money in your hands.

4 hours ago, tikker said:

You do realise your bank account is also nothing but numbers on your screen right? They don't even have all of your money most of the time. If everyone decided to withdraw all their money there would be repercussions due to how banking works. Gold seems like a good investement if you want store of value as it's so stable. If you go for gold or precious metals also make sure you actually get a chunk of that metal, otherwise you just have some IOU saying you alledgedly own some. Some people like more risky endeavours and want to gain value, making crypto a completely valid investment.

I wouldn't call Bitcoin stable exactly... nor the safest way to keep money for that matter.

I realize that of course, it's something I like and dislike. I always have some cash on hand just in case, it's too easily spent on the bank.

Gold is a good investment to store indeed. In this case it's also better to have it physically than just a certificate of it. I see it more as a backup than investment to gain out of it.

Bitcoin seems a good investment if you're into it, I'm just not that type of guy to take such risk, but I would with other investments.

[rafe_28]

4 hours ago, FRD said:

I prefer the good old cash in hand, there's just something in the charm of handling real money in your hands.

Oh yeah ik what ya mean

[rafe_28]

Also you dont need to invest in crpytos to get into crpytos. Theres this new PoS currency that hasnt hit the market yet and which you can mine on ur phone. Its value is not really predictable once its able to be traded but its free to start so ig its a small time investment to make.

[tikker]

51 minutes ago, rafe_28 said:

Also you dont need to invest in crpytos to get into crpytos. Theres this new PoS currency that hasnt hit the market yet and which you can mine on ur phone. Its value is not really predictable once its able to be traded but its free to start so ig its a small time investment to make.

What? First you say you don't have to invest and you finish with recommending an investment lol. You also can't mine a PoS coin, because the point of PoS is to have it stake based and not mining based.

5 hours ago, FRD said:

Maybe it's just me, but my trust is not big enough in digital currencies or digital money management in general. I prefer the good old cash in hand, there's just something in the charm of handling real money in your hands.

Trust is one aspect crypto aims to "solve". In the way it's set up you don't have to trust any of the individual actors while being resistant to bad apples in the bunch. I'm with you on missing physical money. I still always have some cash on hand just in case the card network decides to die at the counter and it does feel more like an exchange of goods that way as well.

5 hours ago, FRD said:

Bitcoin seems a good investment if you're into it, I'm just not that type of guy to take such risk, but I would with other investments.

Man is this stance a breath of fresh air on such a polarising topic

[rafe_28]

10 hours ago, tikker said:

What? First you say you don't have to invest and you finish with recommending an investment lol. You also can't mine a PoS coin, because the point of PoS is to have it stake based and not mining based.

I ment like time not money investment there