motherboard which motherboard is better? MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK or MSI Z490-A PRO?

[TVwazhere]

10 minutes ago, GamerGry123 said:

Yes? Then why if one graphics card works 16x how could 8x and the performance would be the same?

Becasue the GPU is incapable of utilizing all of the bandwidth x16 PCI-E lanes have to offer. 

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus

Quote

From a quick look, there is a little below a 1% performance difference in PCI-e 3.0 x16 and PCI-e 3.0 x8 slots. The difference is not even close to perceptible and should be ignored as inconsequential to users fretting over potential slot or lane limitations. We are not sure how this scales with SLI (particularly MDA 'mode') or dual-GPU cards, but hope to research once we've got more hardware in the lab.

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Titan-X-Performance-PCI-E-3-0-x8-vs-x16-851/

Quote

While our results are somewhat inconsistent, there are still a couple of conclusions we can draw:

1. Whether you will see lower performance with x8 versus x16 is going to highly depend on the application. Some may see a difference, others won't.
2. The higher the load of the card(s) - either through a higher resolution in games or a large number of accelerated effects in professional applications - the higher the chance of there being a difference in performance

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-pci-express-scaling/27.html

Quote

I've been doing PCI-Express performance scaling articles for over ten years now—the first one was with the Radeon HD 5870 in September 2009. Until today, the conclusion has always been the same: no reason to worry about PCIe bandwidth unless you plan on running very high FPS or have a severely constrained interface configuration, think "x4", or "1.1". Today, this conclusion still stands, but a little asterisk has been added.

...

So if you're on a desktop platform with PCIe Gen 3 x16, relax. There's little to no performance lost at any resolution. PCIe generational scaling used to matter when multi-GPU was relevant and there was a likelihood of running a graphics card at x8 bandwidth—not so anymore. You're on a PCIe Gen 4 platform, you get the freedom to run the RTX 3080 at Gen 4 x8 with no performance lost (since it is the same bandwidth as Gen 3 x16), and may drop a sexy NVMe RAID card into the second slot.

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/2104-pcie4-vs-pcie3-gpu-performance/

Quote

In a nutshell, right now PCIe 4.0 does little to improve performance with the RTX 3080. It’s possible that could change with future games, but for now it’s a non-issue.

The data we ran when using the secondary PCIe x16 slot is interesting, even if only a portion of users will be doing so, ultimately, it’s not something AMD fans can use as a weapon to win super important arguments on forums or Reddit. This isn’t a configuration most people use and the decrease in performance isn’t very noticeable.

 

1 minute ago, GamerGry123 said:

See TOMAHAWK B550 motherboard has pci express 4.0 16x and has pci express 3.0 16x. But if two graphics cards are running at the same time, the rx 570 will be in pci express 4.0 slot and will work in 8x mode and the other GTX 960 graphics card will be in pci exres 3.0 slot and will also work in 8x mode? Right? How will it work?

 

But I do not know what it will be like with the B450 if the first pci express slot is 3.0 16x and the second is 2.0 but does it work in 16x or 4x mode? see the picture.

I do not believe you can run either card on PCI-E 4.0 settings, but even if you did, it would have 0 impact on the performance of the card.

 

3 minutes ago, GamerGry123 said:

And will the Amd Ryzen 7 3700x processor work well on the MSI B450 TOAHAWK MAX motherboard? Will the power section overheat? And will the processor not lower the timing so that the power section does not overheat?

The B450 Tomahawk and B550 A-Pro use the same VRM design with similar heatsinks, the video I posted shows that they both perform very similarly. Neither will overheat. Neither will lower core speeds. 

[GamerGry123]

10 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Becasue the GPU is incapable of utilizing all of the bandwidth x16 PCI-E lanes have to offer. 

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Titan-X-Performance-PCI-E-3-0-x8-vs-x16-851/

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-pci-express-scaling/27.html

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/2104-pcie4-vs-pcie3-gpu-performance/

 

I do not believe you can run either card on PCI-E 4.0 settings, but even if you did, it would have 0 impact on the performance of the card.

 

The B450 Tomahawk and B550 A-Pro use the same VRM design with similar heatsinks, the video I posted shows that they both perform very similarly. Neither will overheat. Neither will lower core speeds. 

Okay, so under the Amd Ryzen 7 3700x you can easily buy the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX motherboard?

[GamerGry123]

16 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Becasue the GPU is incapable of utilizing all of the bandwidth x16 PCI-E lanes have to offer. 

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2488-pci-e-3-x8-vs-x16-performance-impact-on-gpus

 

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Titan-X-Performance-PCI-E-3-0-x8-vs-x16-851/

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-pci-express-scaling/27.html

 

https://www.techspot.com/review/2104-pcie4-vs-pcie3-gpu-performance/

 

I do not believe you can run either card on PCI-E 4.0 settings, but even if you did, it would have 0 impact on the performance of the card.

 

The B450 Tomahawk and B550 A-Pro use the same VRM design with similar heatsinks, the video I posted shows that they both perform very similarly. Neither will overheat. Neither will lower core speeds. 

I still have a question for the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX motherboard, if I insert two graphics cards into it, the first will work in version 3.0 in 8x mode and the second will work in pci 2.0 version, but in which mode?
See the picture I sent, it says that the second slot is version 2.0 and which mode works in 16x or 4x mode?

[TVwazhere]

25 minutes ago, GamerGry123 said:

Okay, so under the Amd Ryzen 7 3700x you can easily buy the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX motherboard?

Yes. 

19 minutes ago, GamerGry123 said:

I still have a question for the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX motherboard, if I insert two graphics cards into it, the first will work in version 3.0 in 8x mode and the second will work in pci 2.0 version, but in which mode?
See the picture I sent, it says that the second slot is version 2.0 and which mode works in 16x or 4x mode?

This is actually a good question. One I do not know the definitive answer to.

 

Theoretically, the second slot in the B450 Tomahawk would run at "full PCIe 2.0x16" speed (otherwise called Gen 3.0 x8), because PCIE 2.0x16 is the same speed as PCIE 3.0x8. However, the actual slot is only wired to be an x8 connection, which COULD mean it runs at Gen 2 x8 speeds since it only has 8 physical lanes left.... (which is equivalent to Gen 3.0 x4, or Gen 1.1 x 16) 

 

 

However, even the B550A pro board, which claims the second slot is Gen 3.0x16, is again only a x8 slot (you can see the silver pins do not go through the entire plastic slot). This would lead me to deduce that they are calling out the older max speed specification to make the board look better (because higher numbers are better), as Gen 3.0x16 is the same as PCI-E 4.0x8

 

 

However, even at PCIe Gen 3.0x4 equivalent speeds, there should little impact on GPU performance. I am running two 1070ti's on a board with a gen 3 and a gen 2 slot, and both operate at similar performance levels with one GPU on, or both on. 

 

One last thing to point out before I end this very long comment. The B550A-Pro motherboard cannot activate PCI-E gen 4.0 without a compatible CPU, and only the Ryzen 5000 family has Gen 4 PCI-E lanes. 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B550-A-PRO/Specification#ref2

[Jurrunio]

24 minutes ago, GamerGry123 said:

I still have a question for the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX motherboard, if I insert two graphics cards into it, the first will work in version 3.0 in 8x mode and the second will work in pci 2.0 version, but in which mode?
See the picture I sent, it says that the second slot is version 2.0 and which mode works in 16x or 4x mode?

For the majority of B chipset boards the second PCIe x16 slot is connected to the chipset along with things like some SATA ports, USB ports and extra M.2 slots (when there's more than one). B550 gets PCIe 3.0 x4 worth of bandwidth while B450 only PCIe 2.0 x4. RX 570 in top slot gets PCIe 3.0 x16 regardless because top slot always gets 16 lanes directly from the CPU and RX 570 does not support PCIe 4.0, GTX 960 gets PCIe 3.0 x4 or 2.0 x4 depending on the chipset. The list you posted mentions physical size of the slot, this is different from actual wiring hence bandwidth as PCIe only extends the connector for higher lane count slots. You can get a x16 device work on x4 slot just like a x4 device on a x16 slot.

 

I dont recommend B450 if you're gonna use a GPU for video encoding on chipset lanes. Handling video streams is bandwidth intensive especially if the storage drive holding the video is also connected to the chipset. Not saying it wont work, but I'm not confident it will 100% work as intended.

[GamerGry123]

11 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

For the majority of B chipset boards the second PCIe x16 slot is connected to the chipset along with things like some SATA ports, USB ports and extra M.2 slots (when there's more than one). B550 gets PCIe 3.0 x4 worth of bandwidth while B450 only PCIe 2.0 x4. RX 570 in top slot gets PCIe 3.0 x16 regardless because top slot always gets 16 lanes directly from the CPU and RX 570 does not support PCIe 4.0, GTX 960 gets PCIe 3.0 x4 or 2.0 x4 depending on the chipset. The list you posted mentions physical size of the slot, this is different from actual wiring hence bandwidth as PCIe only extends the connector for higher lane count slots. You can get a x16 device work on x4 slot just like a x4 device on a x16 slot.

 

I dont recommend B450 if you're gonna use a GPU for video encoding on chipset lanes. Handling video streams is bandwidth intensive especially if the storage drive holding the video is also connected to the chipset. Not saying it wont work, but I'm not confident it will 100% work as intended.

You say it won't work well on a B450 motherboard. Will it work on the B550 chipset?

So the graphics card connected to the upper slot will always read 16 lines from the processor, no matter if a second graphics card is connected, yes?

 

In the specification of the MSI B550 TOMAHAWK motherboard it is written that the second pci 3.0 slot is written 16x, i.e. it has 16 lines, how is it that when I connect a second graphics card, only 4 lines will go to the second card?

[GamerGry123]

21 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

Yes. 

This is actually a good question. One I do not know the definitive answer to.

 

Theoretically, the second slot in the B450 Tomahawk would run at "full PCIe 2.0x16" speed (otherwise called Gen 3.0 x8), because PCIE 2.0x16 is the same speed as PCIE 3.0x8. However, the actual slot is only wired to be an x8 connection, which COULD mean it runs at Gen 2 x8 speeds since it only has 8 physical lanes left.... (which is equivalent to Gen 3.0 x4, or Gen 1.1 x 16) 

 

 

However, even the B550A pro board, which claims the second slot is Gen 3.0x16, is again only a x8 slot (you can see the silver pins do not go through the entire plastic slot). This would lead me to deduce that they are calling out the older max speed specification to make the board look better (because higher numbers are better), as Gen 3.0x16 is the same as PCI-E 4.0x8

 

 

However, even at PCIe Gen 3.0x4 equivalent speeds, there should little impact on GPU performance. I am running two 1070ti's on a board with a gen 3 and a gen 2 slot, and both operate at similar performance levels with one GPU on, or both on. 

 

One last thing to point out before I end this very long comment. The B550A-Pro motherboard cannot activate PCI-E gen 4.0 without a compatible CPU, and only the Ryzen 5000 family has Gen 4 PCI-E lanes. 

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B550-A-PRO/Specification#ref2

I do not understand.
Okay, which of these motherboards will the second graphics card run faster in the second slot?
MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX or MSI B550 TOMAHAWK?

The MSI B550 has a second slot 3.0 16x and the MSI B450 has a second slot 2.0 but it is not known whether 16x or 4x. Because in parentheses it says 4x. I don't know that anymore.

[Jurrunio]

3 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

Will it work on the B550 chipset?

It will be better.

 

3 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

So the graphics card connected to the upper slot will always read 16 lines from the processor, no matter if a second graphics card is connected, yes?

Yes because neither board has PCIe switching implemented on the top slot, so the assigned lanes from the CPU to this slot cannot change.

 

3 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

In the specification of the MSI B550 TOMAHAWK motherboard it is written that the second pci 3.0 slot is written 16x, i.e. it has 16 lines, how is it that when I connect a second graphics card, only 4 lines will go to the second card?

It does not mean it has 16 lanes (which is what the number in parentheses means), it means there's a slot of x16's size there. Unless specified, assume they are talking about the phyiscal side of the slot and not the connection. If they put a x4 slot on you wouldnt be able to fit a card with longer connector into it without giving up the clip that holds the connector in place.

[GamerGry123]

1 hour ago, Jurrunio said:

It will be better.

 

Yes because neither board has PCIe switching implemented on the top slot, so the assigned lanes from the CPU to this slot cannot change.

 

It does not mean it has 16 lanes (which is what the number in parentheses means), it means there's a slot of x16's size there. Unless specified, assume they are talking about the phyiscal side of the slot and not the connection. If they put a x4 slot on you wouldnt be able to fit a card with longer connector into it without giving up the clip that holds the connector in place.

So MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX does not suit me because the second PCI slot only works in 4x mode. Yes?

And if I put in a second graphics card it will work in 4x mode. if so, it doesn't suit me.

 

How is it with the MSI B550 motherboard? The first gniaxzdo pci is 4.0 16x if I connect the graphics card to the first slut, it will always work in 16x mode, no matter if the graphics card is connected to the second slot, because these 16 lines to the first slot go from the processor itself, right?

 

How do I connect the graphics card to the second slot in what mode will it work? It says that the second slot is 3.0 16x, so the graphics card should work in 16x mode? And the graphics card which is the first slot will work in 16x mode that goes from the processor itself?

 

 

[Jurrunio]

9 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

So MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX does not suit me because the second PCI slot only works in 4x mode. Yes?

And if I put in a second graphics card it will work in 4x mode. if so, it doesn't suit me.

The reasoning isnt exactly right but I'll move on, this will never end otherwise

 

9 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

How is it with the MSI B550 motherboard? The first gniaxzdo pci is 4.0 16x if I connect the graphics card to the first slut, it will always work in 16x mode, no matter if the graphics card is connected to the second slot, because these 16 lines to the first slot go from the processor itself, right?

Yes

 

9 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

How do I connect the graphics card to the second slot in what mode will it work? It says that the second slot is 3.0 16x, so the graphics card should work in 16x mode? And the graphics card which is the first slot will work in 16x mode that goes from the processor itself?

Second slot is always x4 unless you pay much more for a motherboard. Only way to get true X16 on two slots is with Threadripper. The wording they use are misleading which is why user's manual exist.

[GamerGry123]

8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

The reasoning isnt exactly right but I'll move on, this will never end otherwise

 

Yes

 

Second slot is always x4 unless you pay much more for a motherboard. Only way to get true X16 on two slots is with Threadripper. The wording they use are misleading which is why user's manual exist.

The second slot is always 4x, no matter what chipset is it B450 or B550?

 

The second pci slot is always 4x, no matter what B450 or B550 chipset? Because these 4x are coming from the chipset and not the processor?

 

It's better to buy a disc with B550 because the second pci slot has 3.0 4x, how would it work in 2.0 8x mode?

 

 

 

[Edwin XD]

16 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

They will work exactly the same on either board. Whether they work both on the same motherboard at the same time will depend on what you're trying to use them for. 

Both will only have eight regardless of which board, because, again,  the Max number of PCI-E lanes are determined by the CPU, not the motherboard. 

I'm also going to build a pc, is Msi b550 mag tomahawk good for ryzen 5 3600 with 1660 super I'm gonna use this pc for gaming and editing.

Plz reply

[GamerGry123]

24 minutes ago, Edwin XD said:

I'm also going to build a pc, is Msi b550 mag tomahawk good for ryzen 5 3600 with 1660 super I'm gonna use this pc for gaming and editing.

Plz reply

I had a Ryzen 5 2600 for film editing in general, everything was stuck. So I guess this Ryzen 5 3600 and it's not enough for editing, but for playing such a set is enough for you.

[Edwin XD]

Just now, GamerGry123 said:

I had a Ryzen 5 2600 for film editing in general, everything was stuck. So I guess this Ryzen 5 3600 and it's not enough for editing, but for playing such a set is enough for you.

Is the motherboard Msi b550 mag tomahawk good,is there any issues with compatibility of 1660 super with this mobo? Should I use 650w power supply? Cool master PSU or Corsair psu

[GamerGry123]

51 minutes ago, Edwin XD said:

Is the motherboard Msi b550 mag tomahawk good,is there any issues with compatibility of 1660 super with this mobo? Should I use 650w power supply? Cool master PSU or Corsair psu

I don't have this motherboard. But for this processor you can buy the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX and it will be cheaper the power supply is also enough for 500W or 600W, but if you have the option, you will be better 650 In the future you will be able to replace the components with stronger ones and leave the power supply.

 

Why are you writing here? Create a topic where people will answer your question.

[Edwin XD]

1 hour ago, GamerGry123 said:

I don't have this motherboard. But for this processor you can buy the MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX and it will be cheaper the power supply is also enough for 500W or 600W, but if you have the option, you will be better 650 In the future you will be able to replace the components with stronger ones and leave the power supply.

 

Why are you writing here? Create a topic where people will answer your question.

I created a topic but no one answered

[Jurrunio]

8 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

The second slot is always 4x, no matter what chipset is it B450 or B550?

 

The second pci slot is always 4x, no matter what B450 or B550 chipset? Because these 4x are coming from the chipset and not the processor?

Unless the board maker made extra effort (giving it two x8 support for example, that's what SLI supported boards must do), yes. Chipset itself only gets 4 lanes. B350 B450 X370 X470 is different since it downgrades the 4 3.0 lanes to 8 2.0 lanes and uses half of it for extra IO like SATA ports. This means the PCIe card connected to it only get to use half the bandwidth of the chipset

 

8 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

It's better to buy a disc with B550 because the second pci slot has 3.0 4x, how would it work in 2.0 8x mode?

Why would it work at PCIe 2.0 x8? 3.0 x4 is fine.

[GamerGry123]

8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Unless the board maker made extra effort (giving it two x8 support for example, that's what SLI supported boards must do), yes. Chipset itself only gets 4 lanes. B350 B450 X370 X470 is different since it downgrades the 4 3.0 lanes to 8 2.0 lanes and uses half of it for extra IO like SATA ports. This means the PCIe card connected to it only get to use half the bandwidth of the chipset

 

Why would it work at PCIe 2.0 x8? 3.0 x4 is fine.

 

10 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Unless the board maker made extra effort (giving it two x8 support for example, that's what SLI supported boards must do), yes. Chipset itself only gets 4 lanes. B350 B450 X370 X470 is different since it downgrades the 4 3.0 lanes to 8 2.0 lanes and uses half of it for extra IO like SATA ports. This means the PCIe card connected to it only get to use half the bandwidth of the chipset

 

Why would it work at PCIe 2.0 x8? 3.0 x4 is fine.

View for two MSI Z490 A-PRO and MSI B550 A-PRO motherboards both have a second pci 4x slot?

 

I want to buy with one of these motherboards which one is better?

[Jurrunio]

11 minutes ago, GamerGry123 said:

 

View for two MSI Z490 A-PRO and MSI B550 A-PRO motherboards both have a second pci 4x slot?

 

I want to buy with one of these motherboards which one is better?

B550 A Pro is better because the CPUs it uses are better.

[GamerGry123]

6 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

B550 A Pro is better because the CPUs it uses are better.

Okay, it's a better album for Amd.
Which of these motherboards is better? MSI B550 A-PRO or MSI MAG B500 TOMAHAWK?

The B550 TOMAHAWK has a slightly better ALC 1200 sound and the B550 A-PRO motherboard has an ALC 892 but there is not much difference between these codecs.

Yet the TOMAHAWK B550 can run with even higher RAM clock speeds. It still has 2.5G internet and the B550 A-PRO version has 1G internet, but are these differences worth paying more for the TOMAHAWK B550? The price difference is $ 12.

[Jurrunio]

2 hours ago, GamerGry123 said:

The price difference is $ 12.

only $12? Tomahawk sounds like the better deal then

[GamerGry123]

Do these motherboards have the same VRM power sections?

[TVwazhere]

-Thread merged with existing thread-

 

We answered this question here:

On 3/8/2021 at 8:56 AM, TVwazhere said:

 

The B450 Tomahawk and B550A Pro are similar in the power delivery area, but the B550A has more up to date features such as a 3.1 gen 2 typce c front panel connector. 

Incorrect. Both GPU's will get the same x8 PCI-E lanes regardless of which motherboard they're on, because the number of PCI-E lanes are determined by the CPU, not the motherboard. 

 

Also incorrect.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Smj5dh97n32wJqm5dkdDcQt8ID7vH52-lKzaaXUUQx8/edit#gid=0

 

I'm not an expert of the different types of VRM's (I leave that up to people more interested in that sort of thing), but objectively they are different. 

B550 Tomahawk VRM are better than the B550 A-Pro