Why does people use DAC/AMP for smol bois?

[iM8Pizza]

Hi there, I have questions regarding the usage of DAC/AMP for smol bois, by smol bois I mean any audio (particularly earphones) that don't need extra power to drive, I am by no means want to sh!t on these people, I just want to clarify things and whether or not I should get them myself.
From what I know, from the Audio Board's FAQ, I have no need to get either of them since I can run my earphones and headphone just fine from my phone, PC, and laptop. But it always got me wondering, when I see people in online shop's reviews, like, plenty of them, use DAC/AMP for listening with these smol bois, the first question that came into mind is, wouldn't that just make it sound louder and it just add coloration to the sound that the smol bois make? and another thing that piqued my interest is when some people says that by using DAC/AMP with xx smol boi, it will increase its soundstage and/or adds clarity, my question to that is how is that possible? or is it not possible and its just due to lack of words or something else?
sorry for the lack of term, I just feel like smol bois fits here since it captures all three, earbud, earphone, headphone.

Sorry for the rather trivial question, it's just something that's been bugging me for quite some time now and I feel like this forum is friendly enough for a beginner like me to learn more. I'm a rather quite listener when it comes to volume, my volume when using my headphone is at 10 with the onboard audio from the motherboard. Thank you for reading and have a good day

[Ahoy Hoy]

I think the big problem is audiophiles dont understand physics. So dont understand how the science behind audio works. They just spend money on equipment and to justify the money it is obviously so much better sounding.

Amps increase the maximum volume. If the current system you have is loud enough you dont need another more powerful amp. If the current amp is loud enough without hearing back ground electronic noise you dont need to change amp.

Dacs change data to audio signal. If the current system converts the signal and has no audible interference or artefacts and the back ground electronic noise isnt audible. Why do you need a new DAC.


They use words to describe audio like thumpy or bright etc. These words dont mean anything. There is no scientific definition becuase its a word to describe a opinion of something only you can hear so the meanings are different between every person.

[Tigerleon]

True, but... describing a sound is the only way to understand how a headphone sounds. According to many many people. For example, the DT 990 pros have a really "sharp" or sibilant sound. Which is a way to describe the tuning of the drivers. Audiophiles may not know physics well. But we sure do know how to describe differences in sound and the overall quality of it.

[Tigerleon]

10 minutes ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

Amps increase the maximum volume. If the current system you have is loud enough you dont need another more powerful amp. If the current amp is loud enough without hearing back ground electronic noise you dont need to change amp.

Dacs change data to audio signal. If the current system converts the signal and has no audible interference or artefacts and the back ground electronic noise isnt audible. Why do you need a new DAC.

The DAC and amp part you got right.

[Ahoy Hoy]

2 minutes ago, Tigerleon said:

True, but... describing a sound is the only way to understand how a headphone sounds. According to many many people. For example, the DT 990 pros have a really "sharp" or sibilant sound. Which is a way to describe the tuning of the drivers. Audiophiles may not know physics well. But we sure do know how to describe differences in sound and the overall quality of it.

But what I think is sharp is not what you think is sharp because its dependent on each others hearing and what we think that word means. I actually have no idea what the word sharp means beyond saying the knife is sharp. 

Those audio descriptions have the same amount of meaning as mood descriptions. My feeling of angry is not the same as what you think angry is. Its roughly similar but its not the same and no one person description is the same as another's.

[iM8Pizza]

@DriftMan@Tigerleon@Ahoy Hoy Thank you for the replies.

I can agree as to what Driftman says that there are plenty of misinformation out there, and the examples that you laid out are already understandable for me, since, unlike audio, PC hardware and its performance can be objectively shown and proven, unlike audio, where we have different ears and making one's measurement of it different to the next person.

As for whether or not I should need a DAC or AMP, I don't, since I've read the Audio Board's FAQ and it's pretty clear that I don't need them. I want to know what are the reasons these people get them and to clarify some thoughts that I have in my head regarding them, that is, without having anything higher than a smol boi, a DAC/AMP would only makes it louder and add colorisation to the sound.

[rice guru]

For iems and most headphones. You really don't need a dac/amp a standard iphone dongle will get you what you need for most use cases. Lots of folks in the audio community ironically the budget community loves to talk about dac amps. I spend a decent amount of cash on dac amps cause of good deals I ran into and cause the headphones I run for pretty well with extra power and the amps and dca I buy are just inherently colored. And allign with my preferences. 

[kucharczykt]

1 hour ago, Ahoy Hoy said:

I think the big problem is audiophiles dont understand physics. So dont understand how the science behind audio works. They just spend money on equipment and to justify the money it is obviously so much better sounding.

Amps increase the maximum volume. If the current system you have is loud enough you dont need another more powerful amp. If the current amp is loud enough without hearing back ground electronic noise you dont need to change amp.

Dacs change data to audio signal. If the current system converts the signal and has no audible interference or artefacts and the back ground electronic noise isnt audible. Why do you need a new DAC.


They use words to describe audio like thumpy or bright etc. These words dont mean anything. There is no scientific definition becuase its a word to describe a opinion of something only you can hear so the meanings are different between every person.

Thumpy means it has more bass and bright means it has more in the top end or highs. These usually arn't opinions as they can be proven by the soundscape of the headphones. As for dacs and amps not needed for the majority of headphones and sound quality is mainly up to the headphones themselves.

[CTR640]

Ehm...excuse me but if I wanna use my earphones connected to my desktop PC, then what should I do with my desktop dac/amp?

Throw it in the trashbin? You can use any earphone and headphone with it.

 

But having a Bugatti Chiron just to buy some food for your smol bois is pretty insane cuz u haz a smol tronk in ur kar

[The Flying Sloth]

There are probably four answers here,

 

1, They didn't need a DAC/AMP and made a silly purchase.

 

2, Onboard audio was noisy or had interference or was just extremely low quality (especially common with phones)

 

3, They already had a DACAMP and might as well use it.

 

4, They needed the different connections anyway so needed to buy it no matter the output device they use.

 

 

 

 

[rice guru]

36 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

3, They already had a DACAMP and might as well use it.

basically me these days.  when using cheap audio gear I dont see a reason why not use existing gear. In regards to OP if you dont plan to get gear that warrants extra gear to drive them you dpm't really need it. if your in the audio hobby though and find a good deal on it then a good argument could be made to drop cash on it. but if your gear sounds just fine right now 99% of the time your are good where you are at. 

[iM8Pizza]

Hello everyone, thank you for the replies on the topic, it's all been helpful
So I basically don't need to get either of the two since using my phone, pc, and laptop seems to just goes fine with what audio thing I have. On that note though, I don't think anyone mentioned regarding the question I had regarding 'soundstage' that got 'improved' from using a certain DAC and/or AMP, is that even possible? Like, isn't the one that's responsible for soundstage lies on the smol boi itself? wouldn't it be like adding a 2070 to a 3rd gen i5 and hoping it to run 4k60fps just fine? is it even possible to?
Since, out of all things that's said to 'change' the way they sound, having it to get a better soundstage sounds like a big deal to me, since I don't really care if DAC/AMP adds coloration to the way the smol boi sound since I basically EQ my smol bois to have no peaks on any frequency, basically trying to make it sound flat from what I know.

thank you and have a good day

[CTR640]

While the onboard audio of my motherboard is pretty alright, it won't power my other headphones for shit. Earbuds are fine but the differences are very huge. So yeah, if connected to PC, you can use any earphones and headphones with no problem.

 

And according to soundstage, it depends on the headphones. It's an endless discussions because it's about dac/amps and headphones. Earphones usually have zero soundstage and it's all stereo.

 

I have a GTX1080Ti and 4rd gen i7, the 4770 and as long as playing on higher resolutions than 1080p, you'll be fine. I only play at 1440p and 2160p if it can. So 2070 with 3rd gen i5, not really sure because old gens i5 are pretty crappish these days.

[iM8Pizza]

Aye that I understand, as for my case, be it my headphone or earphones, I can run them just fine from my PC. The i5 3rd gen paired with 2070 is just an example, since the i5 will most likely bottleneck it, it's an example for the question of improving soundstage by using DAC/AMP for smol bois, in this case, isn't the smol bois driver the bottleneck?

[CTR640]

Ah I see. Well, the most popular dac/amps are Fiio K5 Pro and iFi ZEN (CAN). They provide very good sound at affordable price, $149-ish. iFi has some other dacs in the kinda the same price range and Fiio too like the K3 and Q3. While your onboard audiochop might be fine, the difference is noticeable. And the soundstage? I used my Marshall MID ANC and it has no soundstage, it's like in your head. Then I moved on to other headphones and the Beyerdynamic DT880 was the first real headphone and this one turned out to be a starter. But the soundstage is big, no longer in your head. And then I moved on to other headphones and they have big soundstage too and great seperations. But...these are not for smol bois.