What in God's name has the EULA been reduced to

[nicehat]

 

 

 

I fired up Total War Rome II on steam to be greeted by a new EULA. Instead of clicking agree, I decided to read the first point.

 

1.) SEGA hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited, fully revocable right and license to install, access and use one (1) copy of the Game Software and/or Editors (including any New Materials) and/or Additional Content solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use.

 

So, I bought the game, and its not mine, its a licensed copy. Fine, times have changed, Sega needs to cover its ass. Whatever. The part that really irks me is where they say that the licence you get is completely non-transferable (meaning you technically arnt allowed to share it on steam), and fully revocable. If one fine day SEGA decides to take the game off the table, they can. This is completely ridiculous. 

 

The only way you come across this EULA is after you purchase (license) the game. And if you dont like it? No refunds

[Vitalius]

-snip-

This should be illegal. 

[Imabigmac]

lol, you are only leasing/renting it, just like a house the owner can kick you out as long as you are given notice. 

[nicehat]

lol, you are only leasing/renting it, just like a house the owner can kick you out.

 

Sure, but in this case, you only get to read/sign the contract AFTER you pay the entire year of rent upfront and in cash. Bullshit!

[Imabigmac]

Sure, but in this case, you only get to read/sign the contract AFTER you pay the entire year of rent upfront and in cash. Bullshit!

that is what should be illegal. Someone rich American should sue EA or Steam over it. 

[qwertywarrior]

we the consumers have choices

if we feel something is not fit to be bought because of said reasons we need to voice them

 

there are developers who even release DRM free games because of this BS

 

http://www.sega.com/EULA/

[Theo]

same goes for steam doesnt it?

[StingBull]

"non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited

 

these are standard but

 

"fully revocable"

 

this one is bullshit. I would like too see them take down the game I paid money for from my account. Let's see if they survive as a company after that.

[techswede]

Soo? A game purchase has been reduced to an indefinite lease?.. 

[Vitalius]

Soo? A game purchase has been reduced to an indefinite lease?.. 

Indefinite? I didn't see any guarantee of that. 

[DirkaFat]

Remember that commotion about how Steam completely erased a game from everyone's libraries? From what I've gathered in a thread posted here, the games we "buy" on Steam aren't really ours according to the agreements of Steam itself. So Steam pretty much has the right to revoke access to any and all games when they want to, I guess. (Though this may be false)

 

 

But yes, giving you access to the terms after the purchase is ridiculous.

[nicehat]

we the consumers have choices

if we feel something is not fit to be bought because of said reasons we need to voice them

 

there are developers who even release DRM free games because of this BS

 

http://www.sega.com/EULA/

 

Fair enough, I could have done my homework, and looked up the EULA before buying/"renting" the game on Steam. But heres where they shyte on you again...Check this shit out:

 

 

In addition, some applications offered through or in connection with the Game Software may be subject to additional terms and conditions promulgated by SEGA from time to time. Any material modifications to the Agreement will also be brought to your attention by posting onhttp://www.sega.co.uk/terms or http://www.sega.co.uk/privacy.

...

The Agreement set forth herein continue to remain in full force and effect until such time as terminated by either party. You agree and acknowledge that you are not entitled to any refund for any amounts which were paid to SEGA prior to any termination.

 

So they can change the EULA at any time they want and if you happened to buy/rent the game thinking you got one EULA only to get a refreshed one at installation, TOO BAD, YOU ALREADY BOUGHT THE GAME NO REFUNDS TROLOLOLOLOL 

 

[techswede]

Indefinite? I didn't see any guarantee of that. 

That post was directed at digital game purchases in general. 

I missed the "fully revocable" bit. 

That's complete arse gravy and should not be legal. nor should we accept it.

[squirrl]

 

OP

 

 

Even though it sounds weird, when you buy software you are buying a licence to use it. You don't own the software, the creator owns it. That creator could sell the rights to the software and then the purchaser would actually own it. You're just paying for the right to use it and not much else.

[IdeaStormer]

Easy, don't accept, don't buy, just e-mail them why and leave it at that, crowd source it till they either go bankrupt or change their ways.

[Ertman]

Games and other software has been 'licensed' for quite sometime.

The EULA has not always been fully legally enforceable either. Some of those specific clauses will not be possible to enforce as part of the contractual relationship.

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

This should be illegal. 

Why? It makes perfect sense if you actually thought about it.

 

"non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited

 

these are standard but

 

"fully revocable"

 

this one is bullshit. I would like too see them take down the game I paid money for from my account. Let's see if they survive as a company after that.

How is "fully revocable" bullshit? They cant keep the servers up forever. They cant support the product forever. They cant continue to develop patches and content forever. Use some common sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I fired up Total War Rome II on steam to be greeted by a new EULA. Instead of clicking agree, I decided to read the first point.

 

1.) SEGA hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited, fully revocable right and license to install, access and use one (1) copy of the Game Software and/or Editors (including any New Materials) and/or Additional Content solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use.

 

So, I bought the game, and its not mine, its a licensed copy. Fine, times have changed, Sega needs to cover its ass. Whatever. The part that really irks me is where they say that the licence you get is completely non-transferable (meaning you technically arnt allowed to share it on steam), and fully revocable. If one fine day SEGA decides to take the game off the table, they can. This is completely ridiculous. 

 

The only way you come across this EULA is after you purchase (license) the game. And if you dont like it? No refunds

 

By sharing it on Steam you are not transfering the licence. It is licenced to your steam account, not a computer or single person.

[Vitalius]

Why? It makes perfect sense if you actually thought about it.

 

How is "fully revocable" bullshit? They cant keep the servers up forever. They cant support the product forever. They cant continue to develop patches and content forever. Use some common sense.

 

By sharing it on Steam you are not transfering the licence. It is licenced to your steam account, not a computer or single person.

It should be illegal to require accepting a EULA to use a license that you must first purchase the product to actually accept when your right to the license can be revoked. Especially when they can randomly change it without notifying you.

If you want to say "you can just read it on their website before you buy the game to know what you are going to have to agree to", you can't be certain it'll be the same EULA as they can change it at whim.

I didn't say "right to the game or services therein", I said the license. A license doesn't need a server with the game on it to be valid. That's completely irrelevant. If they revoke your license, and you have the game installed, it's illegal to have installed because you don't have the license anymore and it's effectively pirating. Just as illegal as having Windows installed without a receipt for your install (to prove you own a license) is. Product key be damned (they are literally irrelevant and for annoyance based on how Microsoft operates).

Let that sink in. How that's completely unrelated to patched, services, or what-have-you. 

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

It should be illegal to require accepting a EULA to use a license that you must first purchase the product to actually accept when your right to the license can be revoked. Especially when they can randomly change it without notifying you.

If you want to say "you can just read it on their website before you buy the game to know what you are going to have to agree to", you can't be certain it'll be the same EULA as they can change it at whim.

I didn't say "right to the game or services therein", I said the license. A license doesn't need a server with the game on it to be valid. That's completely irrelevant. If they revoke your license, and you have the game installed, it's illegal to have installed because you don't have the license anymore and it's effectively pirating. Just as illegal as having Windows installed without a receipt for your install (to prove you own a license) is. Product key be damned (they are literally irrelevant and for annoyance based on how Microsoft operates).

Let that sink in. How that's completely unrelated to patched, services, or what-have-you. 

Its irrelevent.

 

In the UK you cant add terms after the contract has been made. But the UK and EU have much stronger consumer rights than the US does, maybe that is why Steam isnt so bothered about displaying EULAs before you buy?

 

Steam also do a refund if you dont install the game, and contact their customer support within a specific time period. If you dont agree to the EULA you can get a refund. They also have the Steam Subscriber Agreement, which you will agree to before you purchase the game.

3. BILLING, PAYMENT AND OTHER SUBSCRIPTIONSALL CHARGES INCURRED ON STEAM, AND ALL PURCHASES MADE WITH THE STEAM WALLET, ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART, REGARDLESS OF THE PAYMENT METHOD, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY SET FORTH IN THIS AGREEMENT.IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON UNTIL DELIVERY OF SUCH CONTENT HAS STARTED OR PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A TRANSACTION OR OBTAIN A REFUND ONCE DELIVERY OF THE CONTENT HAS STARTED OR THE PERFORMANCE OF THE SERVICE HAS COMMENCED, AT WHICH POINT YOUR TRANSACTION IS FINAL. YOU AGREE THAT DELIVERY OF DIGITAL CONTENT, AND THE ASSOCIATED SUBSCRIPTION, AND/OR PERFORMANCE OF THE ASSOCIATED SERVICE, COMMENCES AT THE MOMENT THE DIGITAL CONTENT IS ADDED TO YOUR ACCOUNT OR INVENTORY OR OTHERWISE MADE ACCESSIBLE TO YOU FOR DOWNLOAD OR USE. 

The publisher uses the EULA to protect themselves.

[Vitalius]

The publisher uses the EULA to protect themselves.

I'm not sure if you are saying what I said is irrelevant, or you are correcting my spelling (this).

The rest of that was interesting, and I can understand what you mean by them protecting themselves, but I don't understand why them having the right to revoke a license is protecting themselves. 

A license does not guarantee access to a piece of software, only the right to lawfully install that software on your machine. I don't see where access to the install file is within that, so I can't understand why they need legal protection of that sort other than "in case we decide to be dicks later on". 

[JAW96]

you guys are just now noticing this, it has been like this as far as I can think back

[helping]

Sure, but in this case, you only get to read/sign the contract AFTER you pay the entire year of rent upfront and in cash. Bullshit!

That's the part I like about these.

Disagree? ok, now what.

[Walter87]

that is what should be illegal. Someone rich American should sue EA or Steam over it. 

I do believe steam has a condition in their EULA that you cannot sue or file a class action lawsuit over the company...

 

This is something the tax payers should bring up to their local politicians to address in a new law that mandates free access to EULA's before purchasing any licensed software.

 

I kinda wish we had better consumer rights like the EU.

[nicehat]

In the UK you cant add terms after the contract has been made. But the UK and EU have much stronger consumer rights than the US does, maybe that is why Steam isnt so bothered about displaying EULAs before you buy?

 

 

if you look at the EULA on their website, they indicate that the EULA is drawn up according to UK law. Basically, since Creative Assembly is a fully owned English subsidiary of Sega, we have to play by UK's rules. But I take issue with your point about not being able to add or subtract terms from the original. They clearly say on the website that they can from time to time make additions to the terms for which you will have to sign and agree to a new EULA. 

 

Also, I didnt know that Steam issued refunds based on end user disagreement of the terms. Good to know. I basically made this thread to raise awareness that the EULA that you signed for your game should be glanced over every now and again. They seem to be adding whatever they want in there these days, and you might be surprised in what you find!

[xXxYOLOxSWAGxXx_420BlazeIt]

if you look at the EULA on their website, they indicate that the EULA is drawn up according to UK law. Basically, since Creative Assembly is a fully owned English subsidiary of Sega, we have to play by UK's rules. But I take issue with your point about not being able to add or subtract terms from the original. They clearly say on the website that they can from time to time make additions to the terms for which you will have to sign and agree to a new EULA. 

 

Also, I didnt know that Steam issued refunds based on end user disagreement of the terms. Good to know. I basically made this thread to raise awareness that the EULA that you signed for your game should be glanced over every now and again. They seem to be adding whatever they want in there these days, and you might be surprised in what you find!

If you live in the EU you dont need to give a reason when requesting a refund. You just have to have not installed the game before you request the refund.