The European Commission fines valve and 5 publishers 7.8 million euros for geo-blocking steam games.

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

This is nearly 10 million dollars, thats a huge fine for a company the size of Valve.

edit;

to put this into perspective, with 360 employees, and assuming a starting salary of ~$80,000, they could have increased their workforce by 35% with 10 million dollars.

In terms of their staff costs, a $10 million fine could seem like a lot. But it's nothing in terms of how much Valve makes each year, which will be in the many billions of dollars.

 

Epic Games made $3 billion in 2018, which was before they launched EGS - and largely just from Fortnite.

 

 

If Valve considered the fine placed on them by the EU to be inconsequential and so not pay it, the EU would increase the penalty with prejudice and pass any new laws necessary in order to make it possible. Valve would always come-out the loser in that situation.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

I'm not sure of what "They don't have to give the EU the graces of using any of their software for the sales of any games" means, but a business has to obey the laws of the countries in which they operate, otherwise they won't be allowed to operate there. And so, every transaction Valve makes within the EU is subject to EU law. So are Valve's servers and any assets Valve has in the EU. So are any funds of Valve's processed and kept in the EU.

 

A company has the right to sell in a place, subject to the law of the location in which they are seeking to conduct their business. Valve's options are to comply with EU law, or cease operating within the EU. Valve wants to sell in the EU because Valve generates hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in revenue each year by doing so.

 

So, Valve can ignore an EU decision imposed on their business, but only by ceasing their business operations in the EU, which Valve doesn't want to do.

 

It would only be like that if I was conducting business on your property, selling to all the other people on your property, using your banking institutions to process payments and your servers to host my services. And also if you were the ultimate ruler for everything that happens on your property (meaning there's no higher government) with the power to enforce your decisions.

 

If I failed to comply with your decision under those conditions, you would be able to freeze bank accounts, cut-off transactions, and seize any assets.

 

Which impacts your credit rating.

 

New York City impounds vehicles and then sells them at auctions if people don't pay their parking tickets.

 

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/services-auctions.page

https://moneycheck.com/what-happens-if-you-dont-pay-parking-tickets/

 

Impact credit score does not mean loose license.

 

Not all towns and villages are the city of NY.

 

 Well I suppose it remains to be seen what really happens with this one. They pay, they don't.... They probably have no intention to pay as they claim to have been following law to the best of their knowledge. It could be just a simple mistake, I suppose Valve would need to be charged with crime, I suppose in the EU the laws are quite a bit different than the US. As you know, not all cities impound cars for a few parking tickets. Maybe most of the largest, but other than that, I've never seen it happen cause I don't live downtown anymore.

 

But I don't see why they should pay this fine. Some people in a little region are denied access.. But nobody ever stopped to ask why? Maybe it's a higher crime rate area where their software is stolen more frequently? 

 

The most amusing part is, If the company just gives in, they can pay a lesser fine. Well, in all of the counties around me, that fine is the same for everyone, compliant or not. Generally if compliant, you just pay the fine. But as you where saying, they may impound Valve and valve doesn't want that. How do you know this information? That's "Hearsay". 

 

EU would also would loose their tax revenue from removing Valve. But I cannot say for certain if this is something the EU commission would actually "want" or not.

 

 

 

 

[Delicieuxz]

8 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Impact credit score does not mean loose license.

 

Not all towns and villages are the city of NY.

What can happen depends on where you live and whether the ticket was issued by a private company, or by a city or state authority. In any case, not being able to get a loan or buy a house, or paying much more on a loan, all because of how an unpaid parking ticket affected a credit rating, would suck.

 

https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/save-money/what-happens-when-you-dont-pay-a-parking-ticket/

Quote

Basically, your consequences will vary by city and state.

 

McCurley says the usual consequences include the doubling or tripling of fines, boots (not the pretty kind) or your ticket gets sent to collections.

 

Now that I’m living in St. Petersburg, I got in touch with Keith Glasgow, the city’s parking enforcement coordinator.

 

From experience, parking tickets here are typically $25. If it’s not paid within 14 days, the fine increases to $40.

 

From there, parking services sends out reminders at 30, 60 and 90 days. If the city still hasn’t received a payment, your ticket will be sent to a collection agency within 90 to 120 days.

 

You’ll also get a hold on your license tag, which means you won’t be able to renew it and will probably get pulled over.

 

Glasgow continues: If you rack up three or more tickets, your car will get booted — and that can’t be undone until you pay.

 

However, the real issue happens when that ticket goes to collections.

 

Glasgow says he’s had people call him: “I’m trying to get a house, but I have this parking ticket,” he impersonates. “Can you please take it off?”

 

I thought, sure, this parking guy is trying to intimidate all of us who are lazy and don’t pay, but sources such as NerdWallet and The Huffington Post confirm these nightmares.

 

 

Quote

 Well I suppose it remains to be seen what really happens with this one. They pay, they don't.... They probably have no intention to pay as they claim to have been following law to the best of their knowledge. It could be just a simple mistake, I suppose Valve would need to be charged with crime, I suppose in the EU the laws are quite a bit different than the US.

Companies don't get a choice of whether to obey the law of the countries they operate in - if they don't, they're out of the country. So, a foreign company conducting business in the US while ignoring US law will cause the same or worse to happen.

 

Valve can disagree with the decision while still paying it. They'll likely utilize any avenue they have to object to the decision. But if the decision stands after Valve have exhausted their avenues to object to it, then Valve will pay it.

 

Quote

But I don't see why they should pay this fine. Some people in a little region are denied access.. But nobody ever stopped to ask why? Maybe it's a higher crime rate area where their software is stolen more frequently? 

Different countries are charged different amounts for games because people in different countries make different amounts of money and have different amounts to spend, and are willing to spend different amounts on a game.

 

In a poor country, a game might cost $15, while in a wealthy country it might cost $60. Valve don't want people from wealthy countries buying $60 games from poor countries for $15 because that loses them, and the publishers who sell their games through Steam, lots of money. So, they use region-locked prices to try to make sure that only people living in a certain country can buy games from there.

 

Geo-blocking games goes a big step beyond that and means that if someone legitimately buys and activates a game in one country, but then moves to or is visiting another, they won't be able to play the games they purchased in the other country anymore.

 

Quote

EU would also would loose their tax revenue from removing Valve. But I cannot say for certain if this is something the EU commission would actually "want" or not.

Valve withdrawing their business from the EU isn't one of the possible outcomes. Valve will object to it to the extent they are able to, and if the decision stands at the end, Valve will pay.

 

If Valve withdrew from the EU, which isn't going to happen, it wouldn't mean that people in the EU stop buying games. They'd just buy games from one of the many other platforms operating in the region and Valve's market share would decrease while its competitors' would increase, while Valve would lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars per year over a fine of a couple million dollars.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

If Valve withdrew from the EU, which isn't going to happen, it wouldn't mean that people in the EU stop buying games. They'd just buy games from one of the many other platforms operating in the region and Valve's market share would decrease while its competitors' would increase, while Valve would lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars per year over a fine of a couple million dollars.

And if they did so that may will just start another lawsuit due to them ceasing operation in the EU affecting millions of EU citizens and I think the EU might have something to say about that.

[Moonzy]

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And if they did so that may will just start another lawsuit due to them ceasing operation in the EU affecting millions of EU citizens and I think the EU might have something to say about that.

when you're so big that you literally cant just stop existing even if you wanted to

 

what is the EU trying to achieve here? i dont get it

steam could just abolish the lower prices offered to lower income nations and now everyone have to pay more for games.

are they angry that others buy game at cheap, so they wanna ruin it for them?

[NeuesTestament]

14 hours ago, JZStudios said:

How is this possible? Good Guy Valve and Lord Gaben are physically incapable of doing shitty business practices. Ask anyone!

No we don't have Stockholm syndrome!

Don't worry this injustice will be easily compensated by another CSGO weapon case.

[AndreiArgeanu]

1 hour ago, Moonzy said:

what is the EU trying to achieve here? i dont get it

steam could just abolish the lower prices offered to lower income nations and now everyone have to pay more for games.

are they angry that others buy game at cheap, so they wanna ruin it for them?

Thing is, games aren't really cheaper in the EU or in poorer EU countries. Below you can see how much Cyberpunk costs in different countries and if you look closely you'll notice that there's only one country that is in the EU where the price of the game is cheaper and that's it, and it's not even a significant difference over the US price. If you're in any other EU country you probably have to pay more than that anyway. And the EU doesn't have a problem if steam restricts keys from outside the EU to work inside the EU, their main concern is games bought within the EU used in another EU country.

Quote

Bilateral agreements and/or concerted practices between Valve and each of the five PC video game publisher implemented by means of geo-blocked Steam activation keys which prevented the activation of certain of these publishers' PC video games outside Czechia, Poland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, in response to unsolicited consumer requests (so-called “passive sales”). These lasted between one and five years and were implemented, depending on the cases, between September 2010 and October 2015.

[Bluestar]

I just need to put my two cents into this. As I have been personally affected by it and its rediculus.

As an Estonian we have some games that are geo-restricted like Borderlands 2 for example.

 

Here is the price difference:

 

Borderlands 2

Estonian price:29,99€

EU price taken from Germany:29,99€

 

Borderlands 2 GOTY

Estonian price:44,99€

EU price taken from Germany:44,99€

 

Notice: Purchases made in Estonia are only playable in Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia

 

Also if i recall correctly then at first the game even came with no english language option but it was soon fixed after big outrage. (Baltic states aka Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia all have their own language that is not even slavic. So most people just play games on English)

 

I also noticed that Fallout New Vegas got renamed to Fallout New Vegas RU, there is no warning on it, and in the store it does not have RU at the end. However it does have different steam appid, it broke mods in the beginning and during steam sale it was more expensive here than everywhere else in EU...

 

So basically besides paying same EU price or even at times higher price and getting geo-restricted game there is no benefit to it, just the downside.

I hope steam fixes it at some point with their partners..

 

[JZStudios]

8 hours ago, NeuesTestament said:

Don't worry this injustice will be easily compensated by another CSGO weapon case.

Yeah, but will you have to pay for it?

[williamcll]

I wish they could solve the geoblocking issue in SEA as well.