When is a camera considered professional?

[Moerino]

Hi there, 

For school I have to do this big project.

My main question is: Could you make a professional movie with a mobile phone?

My sub-questions are;  

• What requirements must a professional film meet?
• What external accessories for the phone are required to meet the requirements?
• Is the amount of material that has to be carried for the mobile phone an obstacle?

I've been struggling for hours now to find what requirements a professional film has to meet, but the only thing I've found so far is that Netflix needs you to have a true 4k sensor (≤ 4096 photosites wide) and some recording formate (see picture)

(picture is a screenshot of a YouTube video, cause the link to the Netflix site doesn't work anymore) 

 

Can you guys help me out with the requirements a professional film has to meet??

Thanks a lot.

 

P.S. Could you also leave your source, I have to make a source list at the end 

[GDRRiley]

Yes you can. there are projects on netflix shot on iPhone.

whats often more important for a film is audio and whats being filmed.
plenty of stuff is shot on old HD cameras but because it has good sound and story telling it hold up.

Now most modern films are shot at 2-6k if they are digital. Some that have lots of VFX will be shot at 8k.

typically 17:9 or more widescreen format like 2.5:1 (17.5:7) is standard.

 

netflixes 240mbps has some issues. they assume a non interaframe compression in with interframe in say H265/H264 you can get away with around 150mbps for a 4k 24 signal
 

[jaslion]

You totally can make a feature film on a phone and it's been done with lesser known movies and indie films before. Other movies have used handicams and whatnot to film big parts.

The requirements are totally your own a movie is a piece of art so be as creative as you want.

Nothing extra is needed for a phone sure you can get a stabilizer, a zoom lens,... but really a decent quality camera is good enough

If you get a phone with enough storage/expandable storage and offload the footage from time to time then no issue

 

What it really comes down to is the tools don't make the maker. Sure you can have a red 12k super duper ultra camera but if your movie is a boring crappily shot movie then it doesn't matter it's nice and crisp looking. Your movie will only be as good as you can make it. Sure better tools will help but in the end it's your skill that makes it not the tools you are using.

 

A professional film has nothing to meet as it's all about art. The only thing a film technically has to meet is length but there are many sub classes like shortflim, feature film,... so really there are no requirements at all. It's art and art by nature is up to the beholder.

 

The netflix thing is basically them wanting a standardization of image quality and they also want everything in 4k so people buy their 4k plan that is all there is behind it. People have cheated the system there many times by only have a 1080p final cut (or a wacky resolution) and then either making the 1080p version look a little worse by making the final export at 1600*900 and upscaling it to 1080p and then putting the actual 1080p (or wacky higher resolution that isn't 4k) and upscaling it to 4k to meet the netflix requirements.

[GDRRiley]

9 hours ago, jaslion said:

The netflix thing is basically them wanting a standardization of image quality and they also want everything in 4k so people buy their 4k plan that is all there is behind it. People have cheated the system there many times by only have a 1080p final cut (or a wacky resolution) and then either making the 1080p version look a little worse by making the final export at 1600*900 and upscaling it to 1080p and then putting the actual 1080p (or wacky higher resolution that isn't 4k) and upscaling it to 4k to meet the netflix requirements.

thats only if it is made by netflix if they buy it they don't care.
And if they make it they will make sure it isn't some fake 4k, they've got a short list of gear and lots of requirements

[WereCatf]

9 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

whats often more important for a film is audio and whats being filmed

I'd also count well-setup lighting there. Good lighting can make a world of a difference!

[Zodiark1593]

If you intend to, and are making money with your film, by definition, it is a professional project. Unsure if your teacher would appreciate the impromptu refresher on vocabulary though. Could backfire pretty badly, though in fairness, instructions are legitimately unclear, so the literal route could work. 
 

Platforms that you wish to host your video to may have quality standards that goes beyond resolution,  though that is a different subject. 

[RasmusDC]

as stated i really also think that at the current state, yes a professional film can be made with the phone camera, some might even use it in scenes to create a "dogma" stile delivery...

 

although the limitations is there, unless you do begin to use actual lenses that kan create the "BOKEH" movies, of having blurred backgrounds  and so on.

 

I remember the early days in Denmark, when the "dogme" movie was done, where focus was on the actual storyline, and removal from "cinematics" and the trickery of good equipment and special effects, it created a different closeness to the characters.. and i am no just talking "shaky camera" and low light enviroments, with ISO graining..

[LAwLz]

Those are some pretty vague questions.

 

10 hours ago, Moerino said:

My main question is: Could you make a professional movie with a mobile phone?

Depends on what type of movie you are trying to make. Some types of movies can most certainly be filmed using a smartphone camera.

A documentary or found footage movie? I don't see any reason why you couldn't use a smartphone for that. The next Avengers movie? That would not really work on a smartphone because the audience experts a certain look and feel which can't be replicated without cinema cameras.

Paranormal Activity for example was shot with a 2006-era camcorder. I wouldn't be surprised if modern smartphones has image quality that matches or exceeds that.

The Blair Witch Project was filmed on a Digital8 camera from 1999. Again, wouldn't be surprised if a modern smartphone has better technical capabilities than that.

 

10 hours ago, Moerino said:

• What requirements must a professional film meet?

Depends on the movie being filmed. There is no checklist like the one you are trying to find. You can't just say "it has this resolution and this dynamic range so therefore it is a professional camera". 

 

10 hours ago, Moerino said:

• What external accessories for the phone are required to meet the requirements?

Again, depends on the movie you are making. Some stabilization (like a gimbal), a tripod for static shots, external microphone (does not have to be connected to the camera), lighting, etc. Those things are good to have but depending on the project might not be necessary.

 

10 hours ago, Moerino said:

• Is the amount of material that has to be carried for the mobile phone an obstacle?

No? I mean, you don't really require more things when shooting on a phone than you do with any other camera. If anything, shooting on a smartphone makes it so that you have to carry less stuff.

[Arika]

there has been a number of feature films shot on phones.

 

Netflix is hardly the authority on what is considered a "professional" film.

 

If the question is purely "can you make a professional movie with a mobile phone?" then the answer is yes, all of the below films were shot on an iphone

 

1. Unsane

2. Tangerine

3. Romance in NYC

4. I Play With the Phrase Each Other

5. And Uneasy Lies the Mind

6. Night Fishing

7. Detour

8. Dancers of New York

9. Made in Paris

10. The Painter of Jalouzi

11. Snow Steam Iron

12. Searching for Sugar Man

13. 9 Rides

14. High Flying Bird

[GDRRiley]

Phones do okay but even old cine cameras like ARRI alexa Classics, FS700R (especially with an external recorder) C100 look better than iphones.

[minibois]

12 hours ago, Moerino said:

My main question is: Could you make a professional movie with a mobile phone?

Any camera used for a professional movie is a professional camera.

You could get some screenshots or small parts of a movie and also some photos/small videos of a mobile phone camera and then ask participants: "Do you think this screenshot/video clip could appear in a Hollywood movie?"

 

Taking steps back, a professional movie can be made with a mobile phone, if people are happy with the result of this camera. That would probably be the most important part.

It's just that professional cameras can record RAW for example, which allows for much more detail in color correction.

[kaixax555]

The world "professional" is vague at best. Sure, with creativity you can create great video on a mobile phone. But as for "professional", it really depends on application. What do you define as "professional"? You need to narrow down your scope to better find an answer.

• What requirements must a professional film meet?

Very difficult question to answer, because different organisations have different requirements for video work. 

• What external accessories for the phone are required to meet the requirements?

Besides the phone, firstly I would get a gimbal. A shaky mess is generally not pleasant (unless you are going for Jason Bourne series style of videography and even that is polarising), gimbal would help to smooth out the motion. 

 

Secondly, you need an external microphone, you can either go with a boom mic or a lav mic you get your actors to wear. Sound is easily the weakest part of videoing on a phone. Getting a separate mic would elevate the quality greatly. You need a clapping board too, the sharp sound from clapping the board is meant to sync audio with external sources in post production. 

• Is the amount of material that has to be carried for the mobile phone an obstacle?

Gimbal, not really, but getting an external audio source means you likely need another person to help you on just working on sound. 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

comment on wrong psot

[kaixax555]

Now to answer the question in the title, what makes a camera professional? If I were to expand this question, it would be "what is the differences between videos taken in a professional camera and an iPhone" 

 

There are a lot of differences, some of which are pretty significant. It is very similar when it comes to photography as well. 

 

Bitrate and codec - Professional cameras capture at a much higher bitrate. iPhone tops out at 46MBps. Bitrate matters when capturing fast movements. If let's say you are taking video in extreme slow, the iPhone is more likely to struggle in terms of capturing all the detail. In addition, codecs matter too. iPhone uses high efficiency H.265 format. Higher efficiency means they can cram more resolution for a given bit rate. However, this comes at a cost, where you will lose detail in fast pace sequences, as the H265 codec looks at the video at tries to match the portions of the image by a pixel or two.

 

Dynamic range - It is basically the difference between the darkest part of the image and the lightest parts. A large dynamic range is favoured by professional filmmakers and photographers. It allows for adjusting color and exposure during post production, and allow you to pull detail from shadows and highlights. Professional cameras shine here, they have larger dynamic range, and gives huge advantage in editing post production. A phone usually has a lower dynamic range, though some of the phones have pretty decent dynamic range all things considered. 

 

Noise - It is mainly how much noise is there in very dark situations. This is where you can't really run away from physics. Professional cameras like Red have a huge sensor (Red Epic W has a Super 35 sensor, capturing 8k footage and 35.4 megapixels, about the resolution of my Pentax K-1), resulting in more light hitting the sensor per unit area. In contrast, iPhone has a much smaller sensor, this means less light and noisier images. To compensate, the iPhone does try to process noise duriing video shooting. 

 

For more video, here is a video from Corridor Crew comparing their Red Epic W with an iPhone X. 

 

 

[Pasi123]

This thread reminded me of a movie that was shot on a Nokia N8. I've never watched it but I read about it some years ago.

 

https://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n8-filmed-feature-film-olive-hits-theaters-this-month-02199622/

 

 

[LaFemmeEnVert]

1 hour ago, Pasi123 said:

This thread reminded me of a movie that was shot on a Nokia N8. I've never watched it but I read about it some years ago.

 

https://www.slashgear.com/nokia-n8-filmed-feature-film-olive-hits-theaters-this-month-02199622/

 

 

this trailer looks like it was made somewhere in the 80s or 90s like some cheap HBO home video