How do you feel about pirating discontinued online-download only software?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

I think this is allowed by the standards.

 

There is a lot of software for consoles like the wii and PSP, that was only available online. since both of those said consoles are unsupported fo ronline downloads, and softeware is nolonger available. Most of the software (at least for the wii) was online only, so you cant play any of the games anymore. That leaves piracy as the only way to play those titles on those consoles.\

 

Some stores don't even let you redownload uninstalled owned software post mortem, leaving your purchases missing.

 

How do you feel about this? In your opinion, is this piracy OK? 

[mahyar]

well pretty much every game (except free ones like valorant or cs:go) i played was pirated console or pc old or new indie or AAA all were pirated and i dont feel bad about it

[PlayStation 2]

Shrug. I like to document demos of console games. It doesn't really bother me.

[GhostRoadieBL]

it's a grey zone. kind of like games or software from studios who have closed or gone bankrupt and can no longer be supported and companies like valve through steam still host and take all the profit from the dead company's property. The same issue is with music, you want to support the artist but they are long dead and the slimy record label is taking all the profit from sales. 

So for my opinion, if the software is completely unavailable for purchase or discontinued or you purchased it legally and still want to use it, piracy is the only option and the best option. Legality is grey as obviously the company won't be coming after you if they closed up shop but for things like Wii software we all know how Nintendo is when it comes to hardcore fans wanting to enjoy their content. (for those who don't know, Nintendo is possibly the worst company in the world for modders or anyone wanting to pay homage to their prior properties. the original Mario Battle Royal, Zelda graphics upgrades, even modded N64 games have been targeted with legal action, pure anti-fan moves)

 

it's even hard for some current games, I've had to purchase and then get a pirated copy so I can play offline when I travel due to always online DRM causing the games I own to not even load. 

[WhitetailAni]

I downloaded Mario Maker 1 and 3D World for Cemu cause I didn't feel like getting a Wii U and both of those games.

I then got a warning from Comcast & Nintendo.

Thing is, what does Nintendo want me to do? They don't sell those games anymore.

You can only get them used.

[WhitetailAni]

If there isn't a way to get it from the manufacturer, I don't care. If you still can, I won't.

[Justaphysicsnerd]

3 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

I think this is allowed by the standards.

 

There is a lot of software for consoles like the wii and PSP, that was only available online. since both of those said consoles are unsupported fo ronline downloads, and softeware is nolonger available. Most of the software (at least for the wii) was online only, so you cant play any of the games anymore. That leaves piracy as the only way to play those titles on those consoles.\

 

Some stores don't even let you redownload uninstalled owned software post mortem, leaving your purchases missing.

 

How do you feel about this? In your opinion, is this piracy OK? 

Its called abandonware

Edited November 2, 2020 by wkdpaul

[whm1974]

There is a possible solution: HOMEBREW!!!

[Helpful Tech Witch]

15 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

There is a possible solution: HOMEBREW!!!

But you still have to pirate them to install.....

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

But you still have to pirate them to install.....

How do you Pirate something that is Homebrew?

[GhostRoadieBL]

3 hours ago, Justaphysicsnerd said:

Its called abandonware

some things are abandonware but not all titles are listed that way. 

 

"Abandonware is a product, typically software, ignored by its owner and manufacturer, and for which no official support is available. Although such software is usually still under copyright, the owner may not be tracking copyright violations.

Within an intellectual rights contextual background, abandonware is a software (or hardware) sub-case of the general concept of orphan works. Museums and various organizations, dedicated to preserving this software, continue to provide legal access.

In the United States, copyright protection was 50 years; that subsequently changed to life of the author plus 50 years."

 

specifically for the mentioned software (wii and PSP) the developer still retains rights and is definitely the kind of jerk to send "legal scare tactics" letters to potential downloaders. This isn't abandonware as the copyright owner is still being held and just not tracked. That's where legal grey zones come in. If the software isn't hosted by a recognized abandonware host or group it's piracy, just socially acceptable piracy as the company is no longer supporting their own property. 

 

3 hours ago, whm1974 said:

How do you Pirate something that is Homebrew?

this is mixing terms, piracy is downloading paid intellectual property of a company or individual without paying them, Homebrew is developing your own software to use with a typically locked down operating system (wii for example) 

typically homebrew are hosted for free or sometimes by donation to keep development running in a person's off time for fun not profit. The games you can run through homebrew software are typically pirated due to the inability to purchase or the "everything should be free" kinds of mentality typical piraters have. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by wkdpaul

[WhitetailAni]

9 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

How do you Pirate something that is Homebrew?

Homebrew means you have modded your console.

My Wii has homebrew.

This allows me to play games that aren't Nintendo-created such as game mods.

E.g. New Super Spike Wii.

 

Also, with the correct applications, you can play games not from a game disc.

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

this is mixing terms, piracy is downloading paid intellectual property of a company or individual without paying them, Homebrew is developing your own software to use with a typically locked down operating system (wii for example) 

typically homebrew are hosted for free or sometimes by donation to keep development running in a person's off time for fun not profit. The games you can run through homebrew software are typically pirated due to the inability to purchase or the "everything should be free" kinds of mentality typical piraters have. 

 

1 hour ago, ragnarok0273 said:

Homebrew means you have modded your console.

My Wii has homebrew.

This allows me to play games that aren't Nintendo-created such as game mods.

E.g. New Super Spike Wii.

 

Also, with the correct applications, you can play games not from a game disc.

I know what Homebrew is and and the Term has been around since the 70's when only Hobbyist had Microcomputers that they had to put to together themselves. There was the Homebrew Computer Club where many Platform Designers along with Software Developers got their start.

 

In fact Microsoft Basic was available back then on Papertape for one of the first Microcomputers. Otherwise you had to program the thing by flipping Off and On switches on the front panel.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 hours ago, whm1974 said:

How do you Pirate something that is Homebrew?

this is not a discussion about homebrew. Its about now legally unavailable software.

[Sauron]

As per the community standards I can't condone or encourage piracy in any way. All I can say is that, hypothetically, pirating these games would hurt nobody, financially or otherwise. I also think copyright is irredeemably broken and holds no moral value, only a legislative one.

[GhostRoadieBL]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I also think copyright is irredeemably broken and holds no moral value, only a legislative one.

unfortunately for creators that opinion is common, and a major reason why 'made in china' has killed off huge swaths of innovators products directly causing the stagnation of technological advancement of our society. 

[Teddy07]

I don´t care. These comapanies make more than enough money. Jack Sparrow sails the seven seas

[Sauron]

25 minutes ago, GhostRoadieBL said:

unfortunately for creators that opinion is common, and a major reason why 'made in china' has killed off huge swaths of innovators products directly causing the stagnation of technological advancement of our society. 

Nah, in the vast majority of cases copyright does not benefit the original creator but rather the corporation that bought the rights to the work, sometimes just by virtue of the creator being their employee. Tell me, is Kojima or any of the original developers of MGS benefitting from Konami holding exclusive rights to that game?

[WkdPaul]

3 hours ago, Justaphysicsnerd said:

Its called abandonware

If a company still hold right on the IP, it's still piracy regardless. So as a rule, we (LTT forum moderation) classify abandonware as piracy.

 

 

3 hours ago, whm1974 said:

There is a possible solution: HOMEBREW!!!

It's not a solution, downloading ROMs is still piracy. Homebrew has nothing to do with that.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

If a company still hold right on the IP, it's still piracy regardless. So as a rule, we (LTT forum moderation) classify abandonware as piracy.

From a legal perspective, what if the company that held hat IP went under? Not too familiar with piracy laws, or many laws for that matter hahahaa. I mean surely you would be in the clear since there's no representatives to sue you. 

[WkdPaul]

1 minute ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

From a legal perspective, what if the company that held hat IP went under? Not too familiar with piracy laws, or many laws for that matter hahahaa. I mean surely you would be in the clear since there's no representatives to sue you. 

If the company went under, normally some creditor should have gotten hold to the right of the IP.

But if it somehow slipped and there's no claim, then it should be in the public domain. (this isn't legal advice, I'm not an expert, I only worked a few years in the video game industry and I have some basic knowledge, but this dates from the early 00's).

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

If a company still hold right on the IP, it's still piracy regardless. So as a rule, we (LTT forum moderation) classify abandonware as piracy.

 

 

It's not a solution, downloading ROMs is still piracy. Homebrew has nothing to do with that.

It is a solution to Piracy. Instead of Illegally D/L Copyrighted Software, write your one or support those that do on no longer made and support old platforms.

[GhostRoadieBL]

19 minutes ago, Sauron said:

copyright does not benefit the original creator but rather the corporation that bought the rights to the work

that's the difference between individual creation and contracted employee creation. The individual creator benefits if a corporation purchases rights to use their copyrighted property through royalties or wholesale purchase, this usually (when they know what they are doing) shows up as a percentage cut of the profits made from the intellectual property while the creator retains rights to their creation, 

contract creation is extremely different, game studios own the intellectual property their employees are contracted to make, it is most similar to a commission contract compared to a purchase of property. Kojima benefitted from the paycheque for the contract he signed to work on MGS along with plenty of healthy bonuses along the way as is the custom in many game studios. He agrees to the contract, the contract states very clearly that any imagery or content that individual creates is property of Konami who hold copyright to the game. 

 

It would be difficult to separate the profit to each employee based on what the game makes, you would have to front projected income through the entire development process and split the income of the game based on assets made by each employee. How would you make money by being the box texture painter while someone else is the motion capture operator, or the bug finders who are paid a salary for their potential find/fix, not their actual bug finding. 

The other option is to be independent but good luck being able to make a AAA title on your own without a backer who will want a cut of the profit. 

[whm1974]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

If the company went under, normally some creditor should have gotten hold to the right of the IP.

But if it somehow slipped and there's no claim, then it should be in the public domain. (this isn't legal advice, I'm not an expert, I only worked a few years in the video game industry and I have some basic knowledge, but this dates from the early 00's).

Orphaned Works?

[TempestCatto]

I'm the wrong person to ask. I support pirating no holds back. I mean, be nice to inide devs and buy the thing if you can. Or if you can't (region lock) try and buy merch or donate to them somehow. Otherwise, big corporations can not suck my ass, because they're not even good enough to do that. I'm so tired of paywalls and exclusives (referring to streaming services like HBO Max for example) that I'm just done. I'm done trying to be a nice consumer. I mean, yes, they need to earn money to make new cool things, but they often just make it so damn hard sometimes.

 

/rant