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"AMD Cheaper than Intel" a mytth?

Lord Szechenyi
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(yes quite a clickbait, forgive me)

so one of the main arguments i've seen is to opt for AMD instead of Intel because "It's cheaper" (at least for the same performance)

now i checked some of my local stores, and i can't confirm for the U.S, but in Hungary Intel IS cheaper than AMD.

i took this as an example

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i3-10100-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3400G/3717vs3498

the intel CPU is about 32000 HUF

Whereas the AMD cpu is 43000 HUF

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I think it stems from AMD always performing worse than Intel so the resale value is lower making "AMD Cheaper". When in reality they are compeitive with their pricing too. Look at the price hike of their new Ryzen 5000 CPUs. BUT Intel was charging $1499 for a 10 core CPU only 4 years ago and AMD is offering 16 cores for $799

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted

For what you get, the AMD is a better value.  You get more so you pay more.

 

Compare apples to apples.  One is an APU, the other is a CPU with a box of crayons onboard.

"Do what makes the experience better" - in regards to PCs and Life itself.

 

Onyx : AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3d / MSI 6900xt Gaming X Trio / Gigabyte B650 AORUS Pro AX / G. Skill Flare X5 6000CL36 32GB / Samsung 980 1TB x3 / Super Flower Leadex V Platinum Pro 850 / EK-AIO 360 Basic / Fractal Design North XL (black mesh) / AOC AGON 35" 3440x1440 100Hz / Mackie CR5BT / Corsair Virtuoso SE / Cherry MX Board 3.0 / Logitech G502

 

7800X3D - PBO -30 all cores, 4.90GHz all core, 5.05GHz single core, 18286 C23 multi, 1779 C23 single

 

Emma : i9 9900K @5.1Ghz - Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti - Gigabyte AORUS Z370 Gaming 5 - G. Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3200CL16 - 750 EVO 512GB + 2x 860 EVO 1TB (RAID0) - EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 - Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate 360mm - Fractal Design Define R6 - TP-Link AC1900 PCIe Wifi

 

Raven: AMD Ryzen 5 5600x3d - ASRock B550M Pro4 - G. Skill Ripjaws V 16GB 3200Mhz - XFX Radeon RX6650XT - Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial MX500 1TB - TP-Link AC600 USB Wifi - Gigabyte GP-P450B PSU -  Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L -  Samsung 27" 1080p

 

Plex : AMD Ryzen 5 5600 - Gigabyte B550M AORUS Elite AX - G. Skill Ripjaws V 16GB 2400Mhz - MSI 1050Ti 4GB - Crucial P3 Plus 500GB + WD Red NAS 4TBx2 - TP-Link AC1200 PCIe Wifi - EVGA SuperNova 650 P2 - ASUS Prime AP201 - Spectre 24" 1080p

 

Steam Deck 512GB OLED

 

OnePlus: 

OnePlus 11 5G - 16GB RAM, 256GB NAND, Eternal Green

OnePlus Buds Pro 2 - Eternal Green

 

Other Tech:

- 2021 Volvo S60 Recharge T8 Polestar Engineered - 415hp/495tq 2.0L 4cyl. turbocharged, supercharged and electrified.

- Lenovo 720S Touch 15.6" - i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM 2400MHz, 512GB NVMe SSD, 1050Ti, 4K touchscreen

- MSI GF62 15.6" - i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM 2400 MHz, 256GB NVMe SSD + 1TB 7200rpm HDD, 1050Ti

- Ubiquiti Amplifi HD mesh wifi

 

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2 minutes ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

(yes quite a clickbait, forgive me)

so one of the main arguments i've seen is to opt for AMD instead of Intel because "It's cheaper" (at least for the same performance)

now i checked some of my local stores, and i can't confirm for the U.S, but in Hungary Intel IS cheaper than AMD.

i took this as an example

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i3-10100-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3400G/3717vs3498

the intel CPU is about 32000 HUF

Whereas the AMD cpu is 43000 HUF

It's not just the CPU price to be considered. There's also the motherboards, and generally the Intel platform was a more expensive motherboard.

 

Also, I'd argue the i3-10100 is better compared to a Ryzen 3 3100, which is closer in price and doesn't have the advanced on-board iGPU bringing the cost up (unless you're goal is build a machine without a dGPU).

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 7 5800X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-14 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / 4× Crucial MX500 2TB (RAID-0) | Corsair RM750X | Mellanox ConnectX-3 10G NIC | Inateck USB 3.0 Card | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

Laptop (Narrative): Lenovo Flex 5 81X20005US | Ryzen 5 4500U | 16GB RAM (soldered) | Vega 6 Graphics | SKHynix P31 1TB NVMe SSD | Intel AX200 Wifi (all-around awesome machine)

 

Proxmox Server (Veda): Ryzen 7 3800XT | AsRock Rack X470D4U | Corsair H80i v2 | 64GB Micron DDR4 ECC 3200MT/s | 4x 10TB WD Whites / 4x 14TB Seagate Exos / 2× Samsung PM963a 960GB SSD | Seasonic Prime Fanless 500W | Intel X540-T2 10G NIC | LSI 9207-8i HBA | Fractal Design Node 804 Case (side panels swapped to show off drives) | VMs: TrueNAS Scale; Ubuntu Server (PiHole/PiVPN/NGINX?); Windows 10 Pro; Ubuntu Server (Apache/MySQL)


Media Center/Video Capture (Jesta Cannon): Ryzen 5 1600X | ASRock B450M Pro4 R2.0 | Noctua NH-L12S | 16GB Crucial DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-22 | EVGA GTX750Ti SC | UMIS NVMe SSD 256GB / TEAMGROUP MS30 1TB | Corsair CX450M | Viewcast Osprey 260e Video Capture | Mellanox ConnectX-2 10G NIC | LG UH12NS30 BD-ROM | Silverstone Sugo SG-11 Case | Sony XR65A80K

 

Camera: Sony ɑ7II w/ Meike Grip | Sony SEL24240 | Samyang 35mm ƒ/2.8 | Sony SEL50F18F | Sony SEL2870 (kit lens) | PNY Elite Perfomance 512GB SDXC card

 

Network:

Spoiler 
                           ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ────── UniFi Security Gateway ─── UniFi Switch 8-60W ─┬─ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╦═ Veda (Proxmox Virtual Switch)
(500Mbps↑/500Mbps↓)                             UniFi CloudKey Gen2 (PoE) ─┴─ Veda (IPMI)           ╠═ Veda-NAS (HW Passthrough NIC)
╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╩═ Narrative (Asus USB 2.5G NIC)
║ ┌────── Closet ──────┐   ┌─────────────── Bedroom ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
╚═ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╤═ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╦═ Byarlant
   (PoE)                 │                        ╠═ Narrative (Cable Matters USB-PD 2.5G Ethernet Dongle)
                         │                        ╚═ Jesta Cannon*
                         │ ┌─────────────── Media Center ──────────────────────────────────┐
Notes:                   └─ UniFi Switch 8 ─────────┬─ UniFi Access Point nanoHD (PoE)
═══ is Multi-Gigabit                                ├─ Sony Playstation 4 
─── is Gigabit                                      ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed to Bedroom from Media Center       ├─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
** = cable passed from Media Center to Bedroom      └─ Work Laptop** (Startech USB-PD Dock)

Retired/Other:

Spoiler

Laptop (Rozen-Zulu): Sony VAIO VPCF13WFX | Core i7-740QM | 8GB Patriot DDR3 | GT 425M | Samsung 850EVO 250GB SSD | Blu-ray Drive | Intel 7260 Wifi (lived a good life, retired with honor)

Testbed/Old Desktop (Kshatriya): Xeon X5470 @ 4.0GHz | ZALMAN CNPS9500 | Gigabyte EP45-UD3L | 8GB Nanya DDR2 400MHz | XFX HD6870 DD | OCZ Vertex 3 Max-IOPS 120GB | Corsair CX430M | HooToo USB 3.0 PCIe Card | Osprey 230 Video Capture | NZXT H230 Case

TrueNAS Server (La Vie en Rose): Xeon E3-1241v3 | Supermicro X10SLL-F | Corsair H60 | 32GB Micron DDR3L ECC 1600MHz | 1x Kingston 16GB SSD / Crucial MX500 500GB

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5 minutes ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

now i checked some of my local stores, and i can't confirm for the U.S, but in Hungary Intel IS cheaper than AMD.

i took this as an example

AMD us cheaper in most markets, but stock and pricing can't be the same in every region

 

Cone to the US and compare, you might see a different story.

I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

How many watts do I need? ATX 3.0 & PCIe 5.0 spec, PSU misconceptions, protections explained, group reg is bad

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13 minutes ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

(yes quite a clickbait, forgive me)

so one of the main arguments i've seen is to opt for AMD instead of Intel because "It's cheaper" (at least for the same performance)

now i checked some of my local stores, and i can't confirm for the U.S, but in Hungary Intel IS cheaper than AMD.

i took this as an example

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i3-10100-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3400G/3717vs3498

the intel CPU is about 32000 HUF

Whereas the AMD cpu is 43000 HUF

that's just one example and the cpus aren't really comparable.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

(yes quite a clickbait, forgive me)

so one of the main arguments i've seen is to opt for AMD instead of Intel because "It's cheaper" (at least for the same performance)

now i checked some of my local stores, and i can't confirm for the U.S, but in Hungary Intel IS cheaper than AMD.

i took this as an example

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i3-10100-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3400G/3717vs3498

the intel CPU is about 32000 HUF

Whereas the AMD cpu is 43000 HUF

The cpu's you are comparing aren't comparable as they are both aimed at different markets. One is a regular budget cpu with a basic gpu (intel) and one is a older regular budget cpu with a pretty decent gpu in it. Amd has always had 2 focuses. Delivering a good full experience on one chip (apu) at a sensible price or giving you a regular old cpu without a integrated gpu and thus not wasting your money there allowing them to price their cpu's lower.

 

A direct competitor for the i3 10100 is the ryzen 3100 or 3300x (depending on the price) or a ryzen 1600af/2600 depending on the price and task you need to do.

 

Intel has always packed in a gpu into every single cpu they have. Even in the ones that do not have one there is on in there but it is just defective so you are still paying for the resources and fabrication it cost to make it but a little less because well it's defective. The only times intel can compete with amd's integrated gpu's is on their top of the line i7 and i9 cpu's which is silly as almost anyone that buys one of those is buying a gpu anyways. They may change that in the future with their new xe gpu they have as it really does not make sense putting your highest end integrated gpu (thus upping the price even more of the cpu) in a cpu that will 99% of the time be paired with a much better gpu anyways compared to a lower end pentium or i3 where people would really appreciate the extra performance of a better igpu.

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It doesnt cost much to build a processor. If it where expensive, AMD wouldn't have sub 100 dual and quad core chips (1st gen).

 

Amazingly when I delidded a 1200 and a 2700x, they looked identical under the hood. 

 

How could they be practically the same but such a large difference in price?

 

Well to give variety and maximum profits. 

It probably doesnt cost any more or less to produce a 5600x vs a 5800X for example. 

 

AMD cheap? Never really has been honestly. Couldn't ask a tall price on processors that where considerably slower (in the past as example) 

They wanted big money for the FX 9590 when released. And that 1000$++ Phenom extreme chip..... 

 

Now competitive, they charge what ever they want. Like no one saw that coming right? 500$ processors is not out of the normal at all. 

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

BUT Intel was charging $1499 for a 10 core CPU only 4 years ago and AMD is offering 16 cores for $799

 

1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

only 4 years ago

Let's not forget Moore's Law

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1 hour ago, AbydosOne said:

It's not just the CPU price to be considered. There's also the motherboards, and generally the Intel platform was a more expensive motherboard.

 

Also, I'd argue the i3-10100 is better compared to a Ryzen 3 3100, which is closer in price and doesn't have the advanced on-board iGPU bringing the cost up (unless you're goal is build a machine without a dGPU).

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-Ryzen-3-3100-vs-Intel-i3-10100/3715vs3717

Interesting, i was able to find one for 36000 Huf

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The 3400g has a much better gpu than the i3. The correct comparison is with the 3300x

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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Just look at the news thread 17+ pages long where people are losing their shit coz AMD dares to ask higher price than last year. Even though they not only have higher clock, they also have much higher IPC on top of IPC uplift with Ryzen 3000 series. All with SAME TDP as last year. I mean, how AMD dares! How they dare to charge more for a better product! Absurd!

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1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

It doesnt cost much to build a processor. If it where expensive, AMD wouldn't have sub 100 dual and quad core chips (1st gen).

 

Amazingly when I delidded a 1200 and a 2700x, they looked identical under the hood. 

 

How could they be practically the same but such a large difference in price?

 

Well to give variety and maximum profits. 

It probably doesnt cost any more or less to produce a 5600x vs a 5800X for example. 

They look identical because, on a macro (visible) scale, they are.

The manufacturing processes aren't perfect; after manufacturing, they thoroughly test each die before packaging them into what you get as a CPU.

The Zen/Zen+/Zen 2 architecture (as an example) has 4-core chiplets, with as many as 4 chiplets per package. When they test the chiplets, here's a few (simplified) examples of what happens:

  • If all 4 cores work properly, it can get packaged into an 8, 12, or 16 core CPU (such as a 2700X).
  • If only 3 cores work properly, it's paired with another 3-core chiplet and packaged as a 6-core processor (such as a 3600).
  • If only 2 cores work properly, it can be paired with another 2-core chiplet and packaged as a 4-core processor.
  • If 1 or 0 cores work properly, they get thrown out.

So really, yes, it doesn't cost any more or less to produce the cheaper CPUs (although the high-end 12 and 16 core CPUs do cost more, as they have more chiplets); in fact, producing the cheaper CPUs reduces the overall manufacturing costs for all CPUs since it means less waste (that is, without the cheap CPUs, only the perfect chiplets would be useable, and everything else would get thrown out).

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1 minute ago, fordy_rounds said:

They look identical because, on a macro (visible) scale, they are.

The manufacturing processes aren't perfect; after manufacturing, they thoroughly test each die before packaging them into what you get as a CPU.

The Zen/Zen+/Zen 2 architecture (as an example) has 4-core chiplets, with as many as 4 chiplets per package. When they test the chiplets, here's a few (simplified) examples of what happens:

  • If all 4 cores work properly, it can get packaged into an 8, 12, or 16 core CPU (such as a 2700X).
  • If only 3 cores work properly, it's paired with another 3-core chiplet and packaged as a 6-core processor (such as a 3600).
  • If only 2 cores work properly, it can be paired with another 2-core chiplet and packaged as a 4-core processor.
  • If 1 or 0 cores work properly, they get thrown out.

So really, yes, it doesn't cost any more or less to produce the cheaper CPUs (although the high-end 12 and 16 core CPUs do cost more, as they have more chiplets); in fact, producing the cheaper CPUs reduces the overall manufacturing costs for all CPUs since it means less waste (that is, without the cheap CPUs, only the perfect chiplets would be useable, and everything else would get thrown out).

What was/is interesting is the 1200 is 14nm and the 2700x is 12nm. 

Is it really at that scale? Or perhaps just certain components are at 12nm where its advertised??

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21 minutes ago, fordy_rounds said:

If 1 or 0 cores work properly, they get thrown out.

If 1 core works, then they can pair it with another 1 core CCX so you get an Athlon :D 

Please quote or tag me @Void Master,so i can see your reply.

 

Everyone was a noob at the beginning, don't be discouraged by toxic trolls even if u lose 15 times in a row. Keep training and pushing yourself further and further, so u can show those sorry lots how it's done !

Be a supportive player, and make sure to reflect a good image of the game community you are a part of. 

Don't kick a player unless they willingly want to ruin your experience.

We are the gamer community, we should take care of each other !

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52 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

What was/is interesting is the 1200 is 14nm and the 2700x is 12nm. 

Is it really at that scale? Or perhaps just certain components are at 12nm where its advertised??

I'm not affiliated with AMD, so I can't give a definitive answer, but: 7/12/14nm is an approximation of the transistor size, and has nothing to do with chiplet size; I suspect that the Zen+ chiplets used in the 2700X pack more transistors (compared with the Zen chiplets used in the 1200) into the same size die. This actually makes sense, as it would allow them to use the same tooling for die-cutting and packaging. Since your eyes can't see at the 12-14nm level, they'd end up looking the same.

 

36 minutes ago, Void Master said:

If 1 core works, then they can pair it with another 1 core CCX so you get an Athlon :D 

Good point, I hadn't thought about Athlon....

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Athlon is not soldered. The die looks different probably because of the iGPU installed. Definitely different from the 1200 or 2700x.

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3 hours ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

 

Let's not forget Moore's Law

Correct it proves how Intel was sitting on their ass

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Nah that was true 1 - 2 years ago I feel.

 

Now Intel caught up with a bit cheaper prices and slightly better gaming performance (allegedly) and AMD is smelling blood releasing one "Ryzen gen" after another that no one *really* needs  at slightly buffed up prices... 🤷

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9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Correct it proves how Intel was sitting on their ass

 

4 hours ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

Let's not forget Moore's Law

 

"Moore's Law"

 

Is deader than dead™.

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/24/905789/were-not-prepared-for-the-end-of-moores-law/amp/

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1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

 

"Moore's Law"

 

Is deader than dead™.

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/24/905789/were-not-prepared-for-the-end-of-moores-law/amp/

Moore's Law was never in fact a law and it has nothing to do with transistor density or count. It was simply an observation he had about relative performance he noticed that was following a similar trend. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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7 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Moore's Law was never in fact a law and it has nothing to do with transistor density or count. It was simply an observation he had about relative performance he noticed that was following a similar trend. 

The point is it was true for a long time, but now it isn't anymore and despite that people think things just keep going like they used to. They're not, chip makers are struggling and gains have slowed down massively therefore.

 

Which isn't all that bad tbh because we're already on a very high level of computational power, it just irks me when people say intel or nvidia, etc "are sitting on their asses"  when they internally really scramble to get something new out that overcomes the current limitations... (Because they *know* the end of conventional shrinking tech that they relayed on for so long is near or rather already here)

 

 

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Posted

-> Moved to CPUs, Motherboards and Memory

***

 

There are things to consider. First is that any blanket statement should be thought before just using it. AMD being cheaper than Intel isn't absolute, its relative. Think back 1-2 generations. Then AMD was cheaper than Intel while providing competitive performance. Now Intel has reacted to it. Could we change statement to saying that Intel is cheaper? Because it is in some regions? Thats the issue with blanket statements. If you use one, you better be sure it applies regardless of situations.

 

Second is that you are using local market pricing and availability. And the fact that price/performance difference in low-end and high-end is different. Like looking at this one Hungarian store and prices on high-end CPUs. AMD is beating Intel by far.

^^^^ That's my post ^^^^
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On 10/13/2020 at 11:08 PM, Mark Kaine said:

 

 

"Moore's Law"

 

Is deader than dead™.

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/24/905789/were-not-prepared-for-the-end-of-moores-law/amp/

Too long, didn't read.

although i made a topic a couple of weeks ago on how we will need to find a substitute for silicon because we are close to reaching the smallest semiconductor size (2nm around 2023)

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On 10/13/2020 at 11:17 PM, Mark Kaine said:

The point is it was true for a long time, but now it isn't anymore and despite that people think things just keep going like they used to. They're not, chip makers are struggling and gains have slowed down massively therefore.

 

Which isn't all that bad tbh because we're already on a very high level of computational power, it just irks me when people say intel or nvidia, etc "are sitting on their asses"  when they internally really scramble to get something new out that overcomes the current limitations... (Because they *know* the end of conventional shrinking tech that they relayed on for so long is near or rather already here)

 

 

"640 kB ought to be enough for anybody"

so your "very high level of computational power" is crap, a solution is going to be found, whether it's some goofy stuff with AI, or bigger CPUs, something will be found.

Because although i'm one of those people who think ray tracing sucks (it doesn't look bad, but there's barely a difference) lots of other people won't be satisfied.

Spoiler

Or maybe we are finally going to see programs that are optimized just like in the good old days

 

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