Food & Cooking

[tikker]

  

10 hours ago, poochyena said:

Those two things are 1:1. Unless he tells me he hunts for all his meat, then those two things are one and the same.

Probably as much as you go out every day to forage your own veggies. I completely agree our farming practises have gotten out of hand to e.g. satisfy our hunger for those wonderfully delicious $1 McDonald's burgers.

10 hours ago, poochyena said:

did.. did you not read what you quoted? "together with the culture of eating exotic mammals"

That seems to agree with me perfectly well.

I did, and the emphasis is on exotic. That still doesn't imply that meat is bad for you. Things like mad cow disease are monitored and potentially infected meat discarded. Plenty of veggies we eat aren't good for us raw, but we don't scrutinize mushrooms or beans if they're properly handled and cooked. If we can say to not forage your own mushrooms unless you 100% know what you are doing, we can apply that same thing to eating every living thing under the Sun: don't, unless its farmed in a controllable manner or proven to be free of whatever it is it can give you and properly prepared.

10 hours ago, poochyena said:

e-coli on plants is often cause from water being contaminated with animal poop from........ farm animals! https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/08/29/642646707/investigators-track-contaminated-lettuce-outbreak-to-a-cattle-feedlot

Something we need to be vigilant on then. As you said, we don't always farm animals with the best of practises and we can surely reduce the amount by which we consume meat.

10 hours ago, poochyena said:

I agree but it is still noteworthy. If fewer people on one diet are obese than people on another diet, an average person would generally say the diet with more skinny people is healthier. Its similar to like how you can technically be healthy eating nothing by twinkies and vitamins, but clearly people who consume lots of twinkies tend to not be healthy.

That is exactly the problem: the average person will not think beyond correlation. If you stopped eating meat but slathered every lettuce leaf you eat in a lot of fats there will be little to no gain. We have lost the art of moderation. If your lunch or dinner alone exceed your base metabolic rate in calories then yeah no wonder you get obese. The same would happen if you chow down too many avocados every day. Obesity and diet correlate, but so do obesity and health conciousness or the amount of exercise you do. If calories in exceeds calories out, it gets stored as fat. For example, take the guy that lost weight and fat eating nothing but mcdonalds. He excercised an hour every day and stayed below his burning rate. That is one big reason why diets help: they limit your caloric intake. (I'm not saying this makes McDonald's healthy, there are plenty of arguments and resources out there that show they don't give you all the nutrients you need). I indulge. I love making pizzas at home, I eat burgers and other high calorie food, but I also work out to offset that.

11 hours ago, poochyena said:

I think one thing a lot of companies do wrong is they try too hard to be exactly like meat, so they set up expectations to be a certain way. Like, if you pick up a can of sprite to drink, thinking you picked up the can of coke, its going to taste very weird since you were expecting to taste coke but got something else instead. I think they should advertise "better than meat" or "a unique twist to burgers". Something to indicate it will taste similar to meat, but also not mislead your expectations. I've had several fake meat or cheese products I didn't like at all in the first bite or two, but then ended up loving it by the end once I got a sense of what I was eating.

Yep, I agree here. By presenting it as a "substitute" you still create the expectation of it tasting and acting the same and, perhaps more importantly, you reinforce the still common thought and practise of needing meat for every meal. There are entire cultures that thrive on vegetarian foods like Indian. Marketing needs to stop with "better than meat" or "unique twist" BS. Just market me a delicious portobello burger for what it is: a mushroom on a bun, but a fucking delicious one. One of the best burgers I've ever had was a vegan bean burger

11 hours ago, poochyena said:

Anyways, check out the brand I mentioned earlier in the thread. Absolutely the best fake meat.

I tried Quorn in the past. It tasted like dry cardboard, which is why I think so many people associate vegetarian or vegan food with bad food. Even tofu is seen as just a meat susbtitute. I have the benefit that I like cooking, so if I want a vegetarian meal I simply cook a nice vegetarian meal.

11 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

I can get behind your love of meat, I love it too, but I simply can't understand the vehemence you and many others seem to have towards alternates.

Part of the problem is (in my opinion) that we try to sell them as subsitutes. As I said above, when I tried the Quorn stuff it was bland dry cardboard in the shape of ground meat. Of course it's a necessary hurdle to further our expertise in imitation meat (and potential allergies), but I think there's a lot to be gained if we can educate people on how delicious food without meat can be on its own. I can make a nice jackfruit sandwhich that resemble something like pulled pork. I won't sell it to you as "vegan pulled pork", because that's simply not what it is. I'll just show you this weird fruit and that it can taste nicely.

6 hours ago, trag1c said:

There are some extremely convincing subsitutes but they are few and far between. Though in don't know if I could ever make the switch to solely vege products as that would mean giving up hunting and smoking meats.

I think that's fine. If we'd all cosume a bit less that'll go a long way already.

[Quackers101]

6 hours ago, 8tg said:

And that brings me to the other aspect of these artificial not-meats I despise, they’re cheap as dirt to produce, and they’re what these corporations want to shove down your throat instead of real meat because it’s cheaper. All this under the guise of animal ethics, ecological concern and being healthy.

some that are an issue from the meat industry. as some in the meat industry wants to jump the trend with AWFUL products and just having the claim of "it's vegan tho". Some other ones and sometimes smaller in the industry, are trying a lot more to get a quality product out with good taste.

 

Not sure about the life span, but often freezed and it's good. To such a mix in content, when are one not able to know what you are served which is a somewhat of an issue going away from raw/original produce.

[Bitter]

18 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

My only contribution.

Meat is meat, it is healthy to eat just like veggies, all within proper moderation. The day I don't eat real meat is the day I die.

This trend to make and sell meat like things is dumb, lie to yourself but please for the love of God, dont lie to me.

All trends end, like any previous trend.

I view it this way, I know it's not meat and I don't expect it to be meat and I don't pretend it's meat. I just enjoy variety and trying new things in my diet, if it's good it's good. Some of the veggie patty 'burgers' are pretty good as long as you don't expect it to be the same as meat. I'm all for variety in my protein sources!

[thechinchinsong]

The cultural and systemic reliance of almost all humans on meat of some kind is something that will slow down the mainstreaming of meat-alternative products until humanity is literally pushed to the brink of extinction. Not to say that things like veggie and fungal meat substitutes won't increase in popularity, but as it can be seen in this thread alone, most won't give up meat, with many hesitant to even decrease consumption. The amount of pollution and land use that animal husbandry requires is significant, but most country and people will probably just ignore the problem until it is too late just like they do with other kinds of pollution and global warming. I would support these kinds of alternatives as well as stuff like insect protein, krill, and lab-grown meat, but considering that there are people who think vaccines have micro-chips and flat earthers, I can't imagine any of these doing well, at least in the US.

[whm1974]

19 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Look at all they need to mimic a fraction of our taste.

Depends. Most Mock Meats need a good deal of processing and usually have a high amount of salt added. 

[whm1974]

4 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

The cultural and systemic reliance of almost all humans on meat of some kind is something that will slow down the mainstreaming of meat-alternative products until humanity is literally pushed to the brink of extinction. Not to say that things like veggie and fungal meat substitutes won't increase in popularity, but as it can be seen in this thread alone, most won't give up meat, with many hesitant to even decrease consumption. The amount of pollution and land use that animal husbandry requires is significant, but most country and people will probably just ignore the problem until it is too late just like they do with other kinds of pollution and global warming. I would support these kinds of alternatives as well as stuff like insect protein, krill, and lab-grown meat, but considering that there are people who think vaccines have micro-chips and flat earthers, I can't imagine any of these doing well, at least in the US.

A good part of the problem is that most Meat Alternatives are pricier then Meat itself. At least in the US.  

[whm1974]

Good God I forgot about Tempeh which is Mycelium grown on a soybean substrate. 

 

This has the advantage of less processed then Tofu and has it's own flavor.

[thechinchinsong]

2 hours ago, whm1974 said:

A good part of the problem is that most Meat Alternatives are pricier then Meat itself. At least in the US.  

That's completely true. However, I think even if meat alternatives were cheaper, it wouldn't change the picture too much. Besides, with the USDA consistently subsidizing and funding traditional meats, I doubt corporate will ever let their representatives move on, just like oil companies.

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, whm1974 said:

Good God I forgot about Tempeh which is Mycelium grown on a soybean substrate. 

 

This has the advantage of less processed then Tofu and has it's own flavor.

I just tried some last month and its SO good! I add pasta sauce to it

[whm1974]

11 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I just tried some last month and its SO good! I add pasta sauce to it

I never tried this, and Don't know where to buy it either. Strange but I tried searching for "Where to buy Tempeh" on Yahoo and kept getting houses for sale.

 

And no I am not going to try making it myself.

 

 

[poochyena]

55 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

I never tried this, and Don't know where to buy it either. Strange but I tried searching for "Where to buy Tempeh" on Yahoo and kept getting houses for sale.

 

And no I am not going to try making it myself.

I got it at walmart, its near where lettuce and other fresh food is sold. Its simple to cook too, just fry it up and add sauce.

[whm1974]

14 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I got it at walmart, its near where lettuce and other fresh food is sold. Its simple to cook too, just fry it up and add sauce.

Which Sauces do you recommend? Ketchup I out refuse to use. 

[poochyena]

38 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

Which Sauces do you recommend? Ketchup I out refuse to use. 

I just use tomato pasta sauce, but really any sauce will go good with it. Stir fry sauce, BBQ sauce, its a very neutral food that pairs well with anything.

[XGoodGuyFitz]

This sounds like it would be disgusting...like not even the taste just knowing what mycelium is....plus i hate mushrooms so like that doesnt help. 

[poochyena]

20 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

This is a very limited, and very nonexistent issue in most cases. Farm animals don't roam planted fields after the planting or before harvest.

Right, what happens is the poop gets into the nearby water supply that is used to water the plants.

 

17 hours ago, 8tg said:

A black bean burger I can respect

I laughed when I read this lol. I never heard of someone say they "respect" a black bean burger. Its just food.

17 hours ago, 8tg said:

And that brings me to the other aspect of these artificial not-meats I despise, they’re cheap as dirt to produce, and they’re what these corporations want to shove down your throat instead of real meat because it’s cheaper.

Since when is fake meat cheaper than real meat?

17 hours ago, 8tg said:

I am a human being, I am an apex predator, I decimated the rest of the life on this planet to the extent where I have enslaved entire species so I can have them killed and cooked on demand. I respect and admire what humanity has done, and I’m not going to do the anthropological equivalent of suicide, giving up everything I as a human have accomplished, just so some corporation can have more power over me, or so some smoothbrain can think they’re better than other people for not eating real meat.

This is like saying you refuse to give up using whale oil to power your lanterns because LED lights are too modern and cheap. We humans progress and create better things. Its odd to be so passionate about something thats worse than the alternative in every way.

13 hours ago, tikker said:

Things like mad cow disease are monitored and potentially infected meat discarded.

I don't think you understand. These viruses exist because of farming, and they can spread to humans. A plant species is either safe to eat or not. Gardens aren't a breeding ground for human transmittable viruses. How many diseases and deaths can be linked to a plant disease mutating to become transmittable to humans? A sick cow isn't like a spoiled apple where you just discard it and thats it.

 

13 hours ago, tikker said:

If you stopped eating meat but slathered every lettuce leaf you eat in a lot of fats there will be little to no gain. We have lost the art of moderation. If your lunch or dinner alone exceed your base metabolic rate in calories then yeah no wonder you get obese.

We aren't robots though. People eat based on cravings, rather than caloric needs. There is also evidence that the type of food you eat can actually change your metabolism. Its like, smoking one cigarette won't give you cancer, but people who smoke crave cigarettes and smoke more. Certain foods can have very similar addictive tendencies. Vegetarians and Vegans don't tend to be a healthier weight because they are better at counting calories, its because they tend to eat less addictive foods. No one over-eats lettuce. Its not because lettuce lovers have better self-control, its because leafy greens don't contain addictive chemicals that make people want to eat it until they can't move.

Obese people exist not because they are bad at counting calories, its because they are addicted to food, and its not leafy greens they are addicted it.

 

[tikker]

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

We aren't robots though. People eat based on cravings, rather than caloric needs.

Well yes, but that's up to you to control those urges. Not to say it's easy for everybody, but I have no issue not eating until I'm actually hungry. That takes time though.

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

There is also evidence that the type of food you eat can actually change your metabolism. Its like, smoking one cigarette won't give you cancer, but people who smoke crave cigarettes and smoke more. Certain foods can have very similar addictive tendencies. Vegetarians and Vegans don't tend to be a healthier weight because they are better at counting calories, its because they tend to eat less addictive foods. No one over-eats lettuce. Its not because lettuce lovers have better self-control, its because leafy greens don't contain addictive chemicals that make people want to eat it until they can't move.

No one over eats lettuce because it's more than 90% water. It contains around 16 kcal per ~100 g. The recommended 2500 kcal per day for men would require you to eat (2500/16) * 0.1 kg = 15-16 kg of lettuce daily. Good luck with that Plant aren't nutritious compared to meat, which is extremely calorie dense in comparison. If I take the value here for steak you are at almost 300 kcal per 100 g, 20 times that of lettuce, so yeah if people eat 500 g steaks or lots of meat with cheeses, sauces and what not often that's a substantial fraction of your daily intake and that's just one course. Combine that with snacks and other hidden calories and it's not hard to exceed your daily amount easily.

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

Obese people exist not because they are bad at counting calories, its because they are addicted to food, and its not leafy greens they are addicted it.

Obese people exist because we eat too much. We are fixated on this 3 meals per day regiment and eat too large portion size and snack all day. Calories in vs calories out is very important in combination with a balanced diet, which comes back to self control again. I've personally never had an issue with not eating meat, even though I grew up with the standard meat+veg+potatoes dinner every day, meat on sandwhiches on occasion that sort of stuff. Not saying control in an addiction is easy, and I believe the studies indicating potential addictive effects of meat, e.g. because it substitutes for some stuff the body can produce itself. That's more reason to not push people to go vegan immediately, but to ease them into it by demonstrating how good vegetarian and vegan food can be. If full time meat eaters skip one day of meat per week that's already a win.

[Chiyawa]

For me, I think I'll stick with pure meat rather than synthetic one.

 

Still, my diet consist of mostly vegetable.

[whm1974]

2 hours ago, Chiyawa said:

For me, I think I'll stick with pure meat rather than synthetic one.

 

Still, my diet consist of mostly vegetable.

Mycellium isn't synthetic meat. it is just the actual fungus that sprouts mushrooms.

[XGoodGuyFitz]

1 hour ago, whm1974 said:

Mycellium isn't synthetic meat. it is just the actual fungus that sprouts mushrooms.

But it is meaning to imitate meat, just like burgers made from black beans.

[whm1974]

2 hours ago, XGoodGuyFitz said:

But it is meaning to imitate meat, just like burgers made from black beans.

More like replace meat as a Source of Protein.

[XGoodGuyFitz]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

More like replace meat as a Source of Protein.

It probably won't replace meat. Meat just tastes too good. 

[TheOnlyKirst]

On 9/19/2021 at 4:51 AM, 8tg said:

I am a human being, I am an apex predator, I decimated the rest of the life on this planet to the extent where I have enslaved entire species so I can have them killed and cooked on demand.

please let this be a troll lmao why did I start reading this thread?

[XGoodGuyFitz]

11 minutes ago, TheOnlyKirst said:

please let this be a troll lmao why did I start reading this thread?

I hope it isnt a troll just so i can see something get enslaved. /j

[whm1974]

5 minutes ago, XGoodGuyFitz said:

I hope it isnt a troll just so i can see something get enslaved. /j

And just who is going to get enslaved?

 

Back to Topic: I don't see how consuming Mycellium is any different then eating Mushrooms. Tempeh has been enjoyed for 1000's of Years now. Yeast is used in baking bread and brewing booze. Brae and Blue Cheese is made with mold.

[XGoodGuyFitz]

38 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

And just who is going to get enslaved?

*what