Intel Core i9-10900K Stressed, Package Power Reads 235W, Temperatures 93°C

[Inkz]

I feel that Linus's video today saying that there are rumors about heat issues and stuff the day before embargo gives this some truth. Like he wouldn't leak stuff, but I don't think he would emphasis rumors so heavily. 

[5x5]

I wonder what happend when you overclock it

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, Thomas001 said:

 

The CPU was operating at the stock speeds

You seem to be mixing up BASE clock and Turbo clocks. It most certainly wasn't running at base clocks and most certainly didn't have 125W TDP either...

[Kilrah]

Stock boost is stock. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, 5x5 said:

I wonder what happend when you overclock it

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That's probably not too far from reality on a low end board tbh. Am reminded of the "Thermi" commercial AMD made - it's cringe at tho

[5x5]

48 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

You seem to be mixing up BASE clock and Turbo clocks. It most certainly wasn't running at base clocks and most certainly didn't have 125W TDP either...

Turbo is very much stock

[RejZoR]

26 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Turbo is very much stock

It's not what they rate their consumption at. They clearly state they measure TDP at BASE clock. Turbo is NOT a base clock... Like, half a world away from base clock...

[Kilrah]

Not our fault if their specs makes no sense. But the point is that 235W is still enormous for any consumer CPU that has not been overclocked (beyond factory specifications, just in case you also considered turbo as overclock...)

[porina]

5 hours ago, Inkz said:

Just curious the NDAs are for May 20th, anyone know what timezone or time it's for?

Most often they are early US time.

 

2 hours ago, huilun02 said:

If this is at stock, you would need a mobo and cooler rated for more than 235W

Well, only half way there. The mobo needs to be able to deliver a peak power but it doesn't have to be a continuously sustained power.

 

A refresher on how Intel CPUs are supposed to work. There are two power ratings, TDP and PL2. If you have a cooler rated at least TDP, it can run at least at base clock indefinitely. PL2 is the short term turbo value. Combined with another value known as tau, they define how long the CPU can remain at turbo speeds. This depends on the mobo, the cooling, and is meant to be set by the system builder accordingly. What usually happens on enthusiast overclocking enabled Intel boards is that both PL2 and tau are set to unlimited. Basically it'll turbo as far as the CPU allows.

 

Most mass produced systems will have a cooler rated at TDP and only turbo for short times. Higher end enthusiast systems will probably go for continuous turbo and in that case would need a cooler to match.

 

Note Intel's policy is different from AMDs. Intel CPUs in mass produced systems will typically run at TDP continuously but may boost higher in short term. Enthusiast systems  effectively run power unlimited. Both of these are considered by Intel to not be overclocked. AMD CPUs (at least since Zen 2) run up to PPT which is higher than TDP at stock. e.g. 88W PPT for 65W TDP parts, as long as mobo power and general thermals are ok. However turning on PBO for effectively unlimited power budget is considered an overclock.

 

1 hour ago, 5x5 said:

I wonder what happend when you overclock it

The same thing with Zen 2 CPUs: not a lot unless you throw extreme cooling at it or don't care about stability in certain workloads.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

But muh 125W TDP yo! They really need to standardize measurement of this because it's literally an useless irrelevant number at this point.

There already is, for what you want anyway. Intel specifies PL1 and PL2, which can be changed and does get changed (mostly on laptops and MCE on gaming motherboards). It's why it's called Thermal Design Power and not Power Draw. The entire point of TDP is so you know how to design a cooling solution that can maintain a minimum sustained base clock, also mostly important for laptops and OEM systems.

 

9900K PL2: 120W (Not 150W or 180W)

8700K PL2: 120W (Not 165W or 180W)

7700K PL2: 115W (Not something higher)

 

The Intel defined spec for PL2 is PL1 (TDP) * 1.25, so if you want to know the peak power of an Intel CPU it's simple to figure out...... BUT! PL1 and PL2 are configurable and for a decade now the gaming motherboards everyone has been buying have custom PL1 and PL2 configured in the firmware and are not and have never been running at Intel spec, Intel set a standard and nobody cared and ignored it because why would you not? "Our motherboard has 20% more CPU performance than their board, ours is better", no you just changed PL which anyone can do.

 

So right now I can tell you the PL2 of the 10900K is 155W, anything more than that is not running at Intel spec.

[5x5]

27 minutes ago, leadeater said:

There already is, for what you want anyway. Intel specifies PL1 and PL2, which can be changed and does get changed (mostly on laptops and MCE on gaming motherboards). It's why it's called Thermal Design Power and not Power Draw. The entire point of TDP is so you know how to design a cooling solution that can maintain a minimum sustained base clock, also mostly important for laptops and OEM systems.

 

9900K PL2: 120W (Not 150W or 180W)

8700K PL2: 120W (Not 165W or 180W)

7700K PL2: 115W (Not something higher)

 

The Intel defined spec for PL2 is PL1 (TDP) * 1.25, so if you want to know the peak power of an Intel CPU it's simple to figure out...... BUT! PL1 and PL2 are configurable and for a decade now the gaming motherboards everyone has been buying have custom PL1 and PL2 configured in the firmware and are not and have never been running at Intel spec, Intel set a standard and nobody cared and ignored it because why would you not? "Our motherboard has 20% more CPU performance than their board, ours is better", no you just changed PL which anyone can do.

 

So right now I can tell you the PL2 of the 10900K is 155W, anything more than that is not running at Intel spec.

From what I've been told, the PL2 is being set to 220W for retail. 155W is ES

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, 5x5 said:

From what I've been told, the PL2 is being set to 220W for retail. 155W is ES

That would be an interesting change but thus far PL2 has always been 1.25 times PL1. It may be true, at least for the K series as the 10900K has two defined TDP much like laptop CPUs, 95W and 125W. 220W still seems a bit high but it's in line with where gaming motherboard would put it so it may not be an official Intel spec and more an industry spec.

 

220W would be PL1 * 1.8 which is really, really high compared to any past generation but it might just be a needs must situation. We'll find out soon.

 

OEM systems with 10900K will likely use 95W TDP mode and have a PL2 of 120W and what we buy will have basically unlimited PL1/2 as is basically standard now, 9900K situation did change that a bit though.

[5x5]

16 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That would be an interesting change but thus far PL2 has always been 1.25 times PL1. It may be true, at least for the K series as the 10900K has two defined TDP much like laptop CPUs, 95W and 125W. 220W still seems a bit high but it's in line with where gaming motherboard would put it so it may not be an official Intel spec and more an industry spec.

 

220W would be PL1 * 1.8 which is really, really high compared to any past generation but it might just be a needs must situation. We'll find out soon.

 

OEM systems with 10900K will likely use 95W TDP mode and have a PL2 of 120W and what we buy will have basically unlimited PL1/2 as is basically standard now, 9900K situation did change that a bit though.

Wait, why 95? The base TDP is 125W on the i9. x 1.25 gives PL1 of 155W. x 1.25 again gives us about 200W PL2. That would probably make more sense for general boards with high end ones going for 220

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Wait, why 95? The base TDP is 125W on the i9. x 1.25 gives PL1 of 155W. x 1.25 again gives us about 200W PL2. That would probably make more sense for general boards with high end ones going for 220

10900K is both 95W TDP and 125W TDP, system integrators get to choose which one and when it comes to OEM systems they are far more likely to go with 95W as that is what all their systems are designed for right now. Talking about the HP's and Dell's of the world.

 

Also you don't just times the 155W again that's not how PL2 works, it's based off PL1 which is also the configured TDP. So if you choose 125W TDP mode then to get 220W it's 125W * 1.8.

 

Edit:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/199332/intel-core-i9-10900k-processor-20m-cache-up-to-5-30-ghz.html

[RejZoR]

4 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

Wait, why 95? The base TDP is 125W on the i9. x 1.25 gives PL1 of 155W. x 1.25 again gives us about 200W PL2. That would probably make more sense for general boards with high end ones going for 220

They call it TDP-down and it's 95W.

[NeuesTestament]

Maybe I will buy it as a heater.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, NeuesTestament said:

Maybe I will buy it as a heater.

The more you buy the more you heat

Why wait when you can have heat tracing now

Just heat it

Heat: On

 

Spoiler

Did I miss any other memes? 

 

[GDRRiley]

15 minutes ago, NeuesTestament said:

Maybe I will buy it as a heater.

well then the perfect paring is a r9 295x2 or a Titain Z both are wonderful parings.

 

Everyone remade FX9590 memes to 10900k?

I hate this naming convention

Edited May 20, 2020 by GDRRiley

[5x5]

29 minutes ago, leadeater said:

10900K is both 95W TDP and 125W TDP, system integrators get to choose which one and when it comes to OEM systems they are far more likely to go with 95W as that is what all their systems are designed for right now. Talking about the HP's and Dell's of the world.

 

Also you don't just times the 155W again that's not how PL2 works, it's based off PL1 which is also the configured TDP. So if you choose 125W TDP mode then to get 220W it's 125W * 1.8.

 

Edit:

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/199332/intel-core-i9-10900k-processor-20m-cache-up-to-5-30-ghz.html

cTDP isn't stock clock TDP, though. As with mobile, if cTDP down is enabled, the CPU will run sub base clock. Just how if I toggle my laptop's 8550U to 10W cTDP down, I can't go over 1.4GHz despite the 1.8GHz base clock rating. With normal TDP i average 2GHz and with cTDP up I manage 2.6

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

cTDP isn't stock clock TDP, though. As with mobile, if cTDP down is enabled, the CPU will run sub base clock. Just how if I toggle my laptop's 8550U to 10W cTDP down, I can't go over 1.4GHz despite the 1.8GHz base clock rating. With normal TDP i average 2GHz and with cTDP up I manage 2.6

I know but like I said it has two modes, this is new to desktop processors. Only laptops had this before. And stock is meaningless now as for the past decade nothing you brought and put in to your gaming desktop that you built yourself has had anything at stock values or default spec.

 

10900K set to 95W will be fine, it just won't be competitive with AMD and for single thread workloads perform slightly less than the 9900K. You lose 400 MHz base clock and probably max turbo to 4.9GHz or 5.0GHz possibly with TVB disabled (no idea here, 50/50 on this but if heat is a real concern then off puts it at 51/49).

 

Edit:

Asus R4BE Default PL1 & PL2

 

1000W is very much not the PL1 & PL2 of a 4930K 

[Kilrah]

22 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Heat: On

Guess someone had to match brandings

 

2020 high end green/blue PCs:

RTX ON

HEAT ON

 

 

[Jotoco]

Greta will be visiting Intel soon.

 

How dare them provoke global warming like that?

[leadeater]

 

 

 

 

Quote

We kind of gave a sneak preview on the front page with our frequency graph, but the short answer as to whether these new Core i9 processors really need 250 W for 10 cores is yes. Intel sent us details on what it has determined should be the recommended settings for its K processor line:

• Core i9-10900K: TDP is 125 W, PL2 is 250 W, Tau is 56 seconds
• Core i7-10700K: TDP is 125 W, PL2 is 229 W, Tau is 56 seconds
• Core i5-10600K: TDP is 125 W, PL2 is 182 W, Tau is 56 seconds

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15785/the-intel-comet-lake-review-skylake-we-go-again/5

 

@5x5 PL2 is as high as you heard it was, also the first time I've seen PL2 be different for CPUs in the same generation and product stack. Competition!

[KaitouX]

Quote

Speaking with a colleague, he had issues cooling his 10900K test chip with a Corsair H115i, indicating that users should look to spending $150+ on a cooling setup. That’s going to be a critical balancing element here when it comes to recommendations.

-Anandtech

lol

 

The i5-10600K would be decent if it was closer to the 3600X and not almost the same as the 3700X pricing wise. At least it isn't just bad like previous i5 were due to the lack of HT.