scuba tech FINALLY! A safe, lightweight all-in-one SCUBA package for recreational divers. And it's not a scam ;)

[Results45]

If anyone remembers the days of crowd-funded SCUBA tech back in 2016 and 2017, it was wild ~ not in a good way.  The Triton Artificial Gills turned out to be vaporware and "Bicycle pump" SCUBA kits like Scorkl and MiniDive have been warned against by the wider certified SCUBA community since their release due to low compressed air capacity, poor design, and high potential for unsafe use by untrained divers.

 

Not that I expected much from the aforementioned attempts to get SCUBA into the hands of the average person, but as a certified open-water SCUBA diver myself I was still left feeling a little dissapointed.

 

Then this turned-up at the DEMA Show this week:

 

 

A live demonstration (albeit shallow):

 

More Pics:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Right off the bat, there are things that lend this thing potential and credibility:

• The design of the product seems really solid. Not only from an ease-of-use standpoint but build-quality and safety as well.
• The fact that they unveiled and introduced it in the flesh at a conference/expo first instead of on Kickstarter or Indiegogo.
• Aquabreather LLC. and their product was built from the ground-up at an investor funded incubator (the Skolkovo Innovation Center).
• It won the Red Dot Design Award of 2019 (Red Dot being an international organization that evaluates product designs).
• They are working to get legal certifications in the US and Europe on top of basic testing.
• Education resources and programs are being developed both to promote awareness and ensure safety when it comes to use.

 

The specs & claimed performance:

• Weight: 4.5kg/9.9lb
• 2 quick-swappable cans/40 Liters of "regenerative fluid" (CO2 scrubbing material ~ like in conventional rebreather)
• Dive time: up to 60 minutes
• Dive depth: up to 42 meters
• An integrated dive light and dive computer/HUD
• Estimated MSRP @ launch: $4000

 

More info & resources:

• https://www.demashow.com/DEMA19/Public/MainHall.aspx
• http://aquabreather.com/en/hydroid/technology/
• http://aquabreather.com/en/about/aquabreather/
• https://www.red-dot.org/project/hydroid-40726
• https://www.red-dot.org/about-red-dot/

 

 

Is anyone as excited and hopeful for this as I am? 

[Meganter]

10 minutes ago, Results45 said:

Is anyone as excited and hopeful for this as I am? 

It will be expensive as hell at first I suppose but in the long run it will be good to initiate people/spare time/people in holidays instead of carrying some 20Kg+ scuba tank. But for deep dive you'll still need that fancy 100Kg stuff (well maybe less ).

 

Kinda remind me of this :

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/easybreath-mask-navyblue-id_8526111.html though it's just for snorkelling.

[williamcll]

When are we going to get artificial gills for diving?

[Results45]

37 minutes ago, Plouffe said:

Kinda remind me of this :

https://www.decathlon.co.uk/easybreath-mask-navyblue-id_8526111.html though it's just for snorkelling.

 

Yeah, but there with safety concerns here are the safest options ~ one with a re-designed snorkel and the others with equalizer mechanisms:

• https://www.amazon.com/WildHorn-Outfitters-Seaview-180°-Snorkel/dp/B07F22VLWY
• https://www.amazon.com/Snorkeling-180°Panoramic-Breathing-Anti-Fog-Anti-Leak/dp/B07Q5QXH6B/
• https://www.amazon.com/AQUAEGIS-Full-Face-Snorkel-Mask/dp/B07DDHRTMR

.

[FloRolf]

I kinda prefer the jedi way. 

[Bombastinator]

Red dot is actually kind of a big deal.  They don’t give out many of those and it’s a world wide award.  It’s the top world industrial design award.

 

UPDATE: it appears this may no longer be the case. “Is” was inappropriate.  My memory of this competition is many years old, and @Osiris199 points out there are a gigantic number of categories of it that can now apparently be applied for.  It may be nearly worthless now.

[Bombastinator]

19 minutes ago, williamcll said:

When are we going to get artificial gills for diving?

Never.  It’s easier to make a rebreather and those things last longer than anyone wants to be down.  Bad stuff happens if a person is in salt water too long. It’s an osmosis thing.  Blood is a similar salinity to salt water but it’s not exactly the same.  There is swelling eventually.

[CarlBar]

12 minutes ago, williamcll said:

When are we going to get artificial gills for diving?

 

Not anytime soon. The actual amount of oxygen in a single litre of seawater is quite low. You need to put a lot of water through your hypothetical artificial gil before you can extract enough oxygen for it to be beneficial.

 

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Never.  It’s easier to make a rebreather and those things last longer than anyone wants to be down.  Bad stuff happens if a person is in salt water too long. It’s an osmosis thing.  Blood is a similar salinity to salt water but it’s not exactly the same.  There is swelling eventually.

 

Rebreathers will run out proverbial donkeys years before this becomes an issue. Using diving bells and other means people have spent vast periods of time in which they spend the majority of their work day immersed in saltwater. This may become an issue eventually but any current diving setup is going to run out of oxygen long before that.

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

Not anytime soon. The actual amount of oxygen in a single litre of seawater is quite low. You need to put a lot of water through your hypothetical artificial gil before you can extract enough oxygen for it to be beneficial.

 

 

Rebreathers will run out proverbial donkeys years before this becomes an issue. Using diving bells and other means people have spent vast periods of time in which they spend the majority of their work day immersed in saltwater. This may become an issue eventually but any current diving setup is going to run out of oxygen long before that.

“Majority of days” not whole days.  iirc there are rebreathers good for 18hrs.  They are kinda big.

 

there have been people that ran into these problems.  Iirc they did it with underwater tank swapping though.

[CarlBar]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

“Majority of days” not whole days.  iirc there are rebreathers good for 18hrs.  They are kinda big.

 

there have been people that ran into these problems.  Iirc they did it with underwater tank swapping though.

 

I'm not saying it can't happen, just that it's going to take long enough other things, (like needing to eat and sleep), are going to become issues first.

 

Also the appeal of an artificial gill is that you could dispense with a big bulky setup. Reality is it's probably more power efficient to do electrolysis on the water because you need a tiny fraction the flow rate for that. less than 1ml per second, as apposed to the several litres per second an artificial gill would need.

[Bombastinator]

17 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

I'm not saying it can't happen, just that it's going to take long enough other things, (like needing to eat and sleep), are going to become issues first.

 

Also the appeal of an artificial gill is that you could dispense with a big bulky setup. Reality is it's probably more power efficient to do electrolysis on the water because you need a tiny fraction the flow rate for that. less than 1ml per second, as apposed to the several litres per second an artificial gill would need.

...and several liters per second is a water jet more powerful than a scubike. Unless of course it’s huge.  Never gonna happen.  Too much defiance of the laws of physics.

 

eating and sleeping, with old fashioned single stage regulators no less, has been done.

[CarlBar]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

...and several liters per second is a water jet more powerful than a scubike. Unless of course it’s huge.  Never gonna happen.  Too much defiance of the laws of physics.

 

I know but i figured that was kinda self evident ;).

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Never.  It’s easier to make a rebreather and those things last longer than anyone wants to be down.  Bad stuff happens if a person is in salt water too long. It’s an osmosis thing.  Blood is a similar salinity to salt water but it’s not exactly the same.  There is swelling eventually.

Blood is contained in veins and arteries which are by their nature, liquid tight.

 

I don't know where you got this information from but I assure you it's nonsense. There are people who spent 18 hours a day for months at a time swimming in salt water. Only recently a guy swam the entire coast of Britain, took him 9 months being in the water 18 hours a day.

[Osiris199]

Kinda stupid design. Boyancy in a cave for example will be a nightmare.
If I want a decent rebreather, I would still buy a Revo (if I had the money).
Yes it is more bulky, but autonomy and range are much bigger and probably less trouble, like clearing the ears.

[Bombastinator]

6 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Blood is contained in veins and arteries which are by their nature, liquid tight.

 

I don't know where you got this information from but I assure you it's nonsense. There are people who spent 18 hours a day for months at a time swimming in salt water. Only recently a guy swam the entire coast of Britain, took him 9 months being in the water 18 hours a day.

Yep.  They are liquid tight alright. They’re not particularly gas tight though and also not salt ion tight.

a good deal tighter than many semi permeable membranes they use for things like reverse osmosis and and kidney treatment.  They use the MOST permeable stuff that they can make work for that.  Goes faster.   I believe one preferred choice for some time was animal intestine.  They’ve got better stuff now.  Still not 100% though. Even plastic bottles arent 100%.  Glass is a lot better which is a reason why some things are still shipped in it.  Contacts in a glass vial have a shelf life several times longer than ones in a plastic container for example.

 

 I didn’t say it would kill you. I bet he smeared his whole body in grease though and still came out puffy and his skin was grey.  I got it from a couple of places.  One was an account of a guy who tried to set a time submerged world record using scuba gear. They had to cut the regulator to get it out of his mouth it was so swollen.  Another was my dive instructor.  It was a really really long time ago.  Coming distressingly close to 40 years ago.  It’s possible I’m misremembering some of it.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, VegetableStu said:

how are they making the airtight seal at the neck? or is is just the goggles and the mouthpiece? o_o

Personally I’m betting the latter.  “Simplify to a problem already solved” I got no actual idea though

[DrMacintosh]

Inb4 Thunderfoot comes in an debunks this as physically impossible. 

[Results45]

Really hoping this makes it on tonight's TechLinked 

 

Edit: Just watched it.......better luck next time.

[Bombastinator]

19 hours ago, Osiris199 said:

Kinda stupid design. Boyancy in a cave for example will be a nightmare.
If I want a decent rebreather, I would still buy a Revo (if I had the money).
Yes it is more bulky, but autonomy and range are much bigger and probably less trouble, like clearing the ears.

Rebreathers were never a commercial thing back when I did this stuff.  rebreathers were hardcore navy gear one only read about.  They were considered dangerous.  I forget why.  The concept that it is possible to just go out and buy one excites me.  My memory is that their primary advantage was they allowed unusually deep diving.  The whole gas compression problem with depth more or less didn’t exist.  I live pretty close to the center of the continent now though.  Lake diving strikes me as stupid and unpleasant.  Plus I’m scared to see how the ocean must have changed.

[Dujith]

I'm a bit skeptic about this. The major issue with a re-breather is handling the flow and Co2. 

If any valve fails or leaks you will not notice this till its to late, same with the flowrate. The second you notice this its already to late.

 

Them saying this is "safe" raises an eyebrow with me. There is a reason why the standard scuba setup (tank with premixed air, open breather. bye bye Co2) is used by everyone. Its safe and vaults are easily detected.

 

 

@Bombastinator

Also remember that the Red Dot award is for the design (Fonts, graphics ect) not the actual product. And they hand em out like cookies if you pay up that is  

 

Edit: the "hard" to get Red Dot awards 2019: Product Design 1545 Results 2019

 

[Osiris199]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Rebreathers were never a commercial thing back when I did this stuff.  rebreathers were hardcore navy gear one only read about.  They were considered dangerous.  I forget why.  The concept that it is possible to just go out and buy one excites me.  My memory is that their primary advantage was they allowed unusually deep diving.  The whole gas compression problem with depth more or less didn’t exist.  I live pretty close to the center of the continent now though.  Lake diving strikes me as stupid and unpleasant.  Plus I’m scared to see how the ocean must have changed.

They were considered dangerous, I suppose by how (un)reliable they were and probable gas toxicity. As you breath out the gas containing O2, N2 and CO2, the machine needs to add more gas (be it O2, air or He in trimix) for a next breath (in the normal 21% O2 volume). If the machine miscalculates the amount of gas or in which balance O2-N2-He or the scrubber doesnt function properly, you are prone to having too much or not enough O2, causing Hypoxy or Oxygen poisoning. This not counting any type of decompression.
Another thing I dont like about this thing is the lack of any back up system. Every rebreather user I know has another ponybottle as a bail-out.

This thing doesnt have any sort of mounting for anything.

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, Dujith said:

I'm a bit skeptic about this. The major issue with a re-breather is handling the flow and Co2. 

If any valve fails or leaks you will not notice this till its to late, same with the flowrate. The second you notice this its already to late.

 

Them saying this is "safe" raises an eyebrow with me. There is a reason why the standard scuba setup (tank with premixed air, open breather. bye bye Co2) is used by everyone. Its safe and vaults are easily detected.

 

 

@Bombastinator

Also remember that the Red Dot award is for the design (Fonts, graphics ect) not the actual product. And they hand em out like cookies if you pay up that is  

 

Edit: the "hard" to get Red Dot awards 2019: Product Design 1545 Results 2019

 

There are a huge number of categories it seems.  They are much narrower than I thought they were.  All professional design competitions require entry fees.  It is a design competition rather than an engineering competition.
I suppose that if you could find a category where your product fit and no one else entered competition would be non existent.

 

Also my memory of red dot is quite old.   Barely 1990.  Possibly pre-1990.  At least at that time they were incredibly hard to get.  Or so we as student were led to believe.  You couldn’t just go buy one.  There were lecturers brought in based exclusively on the point that they had won one.  Perhaps the thing has been badly adulterated in the many years since.  It wouldn’t be the first thing that happened to.

The “handing out like cookies” didn’t used to be the case.   The only reason to do such a thing would be to fool people such as myself who had heard of the competition many years previously.  The competition IS very old.  It’s not impossible that the people being abused i my case were the school people who’s memory of red dot was even older, when it was even harder to get.  It would take many years of gradual slide to devolve to the level of effectively utterly fake competition you describe.

 

The number of Categories is quite worrisome.  Perhaps I was duped. I can’t say I wasn’t given the limited information

You are saying the award while it covers ID, was not FOR ID in this case but for decoration OF the device?  Your link was to the thing was not to the actual object but to a search system. 
 

I have updated my statement to include your point.  Thankyou.  

Edited November 19, 2019 by Bombastinator
Update about update

[Bombastinator]

25 minutes ago, Osiris199 said:

They were considered dangerous, I suppose by how (un)reliable they were and probable gas toxicity. As you breath out the gas containing O2, N2 and CO2, the machine needs to add more gas (be it O2, air or He in trimix) for a next breath (in the normal 21% O2 volume). If the machine miscalculates the amount of gas or in which balance O2-N2-He or the scrubber doesnt function properly, you are prone to having too much or not enough O2, causing Hypoxy or Oxygen poisoning. This not counting any type of decompression.
Another thing I dont like about this thing is the lack of any back up system. Every rebreather user I know has another ponybottle as a bail-out.

This thing doesnt have any sort of mounting for anything.

I didn’t realize the product actually WAS a rebreather.  It looked to me from the thread that rebreathers just came up automatically.  watching the video it clearly is though.  

 

That kind of thing WOULD get by an ID competition rather than an engineering one.  ID is not about engineering.  If it even is an ID competition anymore as you pointed out.  Perhaps red dot is now effectively a warning rather than something to advertise.  If it is as bad as you claim the only reason to attempt to get one would be to fool people such as myself.  And the only reason to front load something with a history of merit but apparently no actual current merit is it’s all they’ve got.

 

This makes me sad.  One more thing destroyed.  Good that I know it though.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Bombastinator
General sentence fixing

[Dujith]

@Bombastinator

The link i posted were all the Design awards for 2019, so thats 1545 awards this year alone for just Designs. 

That was just to point out how many awards they give out on a yearly basis.

 

But thats not even the case. Their award is for Brand Identity.... so thats how you present your brand design wise with pictures/logo's fonts.

They specially like the compressed font  So imo that award means zilch. Besides that they present it in a nice way.

[Bombastinator]

My memory back in the day was that there were under half a dozen.  Perhaps only one for ID. 1545 is definitely not that.

 

i wonder if there even is still a functional ID competition that exists?  If every entrant wins it’s certainly not that.