Uh-oh intel ?‍♂️?‍♂️

[techy_pcbuilder]

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_has_revealed_77_new_chip_vulnerabilities_one_of_which_has_a_notable_performance_impact/1

[NumLock21]

It seems only the news ones as I have a Kaby-Lake. Even thought they say 4% of performance, I wonder if I'm going to notice it. Probably not.

[DarkWorld]

It doesn't exactly affect any consumer workload when left unpatched.....

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, NumLock21 said:

It seems only the news ones as I have a Kaby-Lake. Even thought they say 4% of performance, I wonder if I'm going to notice it. Probably not.

Well, for the sake of discussion an impact is an impact.  In the realms of user noticeably we are talking 3-4 ms's in browsing and similar low compute workloads.

 

For heavier workloads it looks like this:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-jcc-microcode&num=4

 

[vanished]

-does not meet posting guidelines for tech news subforum-

 

Damn, the issues just don't stop with them do they?   and 4% may not sound like much but purchasing decisions are sometimes made on that little of a lead.  They really don't have much left in the way of advantages: price? features? efficiency? security? memory bandwidth? expanability?  All better on AMD's side of the street.  Intel has thus far managed to hold onto a slight gaming lead but it's on the order of single digit percentages in the majority of cases and this isn't going to help them any.

[NumLock21]

8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Well, for the sake of discussion an impact is an impact.  In the realms of user noticeably we are talking 3-4 ms's in browsing and similar low compute workloads.

 

For heavier workloads it looks like this:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-jcc-microcode&num=4

 

So some loss in performance but nothing major.

[Tristerin]

Intel FX108350 Hemorrhoid Lake

 

Enjoy it consumers, enjoy it.  I swear you have the cores we say are on the spec sheet!

[mr moose]

14 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

-does not meet posting guidelines for tech news subforum-

 

Damn, the issues just don't stop with them do they?   and 4% may not sound like much but purchasing decisions are sometimes made on that little of a lead.  They really don't have much left in the way of advantages: price? features? efficiency? security? memory bandwidth? expanability?  All better on AMD's side of the street.  Intel has thus far managed to hold onto a slight gaming lead but it's on the order of single digit percentages in the majority of cases and this isn't going to help them any.

Depending heavily on what you do with the hardware.  Companies will usually take a noticeable hit in performance/dollar for track record uptime. This isn't a "because we've always used Intel" argument, it is a conditional observation with nothing for retaliative comparison.    

 

 

Whilst browsing through the tests I posted earlier, it looks like Apache got a performance boost out of the new Unicode, but lost it again after using the new compiler and new unicode.    This would suggest many owners have options even in how they apply mitigations that will result in minimal losses and in some cases gains.

[Mark Kaine]

41 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

4%

Some people get crazy over 1% perf gains in benchmarks like 3DMark and such,  I'd say 4% is a lot.  

 

 

[vanished]

19 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Depending heavily on what you do with the hardware.  Companies will usually take a noticeable hit in performance/dollar for track record uptime. This isn't a "because we've always used Intel" argument, it is a conditional observation with nothing for retaliative comparison.    

 

Whilst browsing through the tests I posted earlier, it looks like Apache got a performance boost out of the new Unicode, but lost it again after using the new compiler and new unicode.    This would suggest many owners have options even in how they apply mitigations that will result in minimal losses and in some cases gains.

Indeed it does depend, at least in a situation where some things work better with one than the other, but it seems like a lot of huge names have realized that AMD is going to serve them better:

https://www.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/136478-netflix-eyes-move-amd-epyc-processors-data-centres/

https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/compute/amd-epyc-processors-come-to-google-and-to-google-cloud

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-stock-jumps-as-amazon-starts-using-epyc-chips-in-the-cloud-2018-11-06

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/announcing-new-amd-epyc-based-azure-virtual-machines/

 

Steve even mentioned the other day that their web host is part of this gang.  It's so bad that in many cases apparently they're not just moving to AMD as the time to refresh comes up, they're breaking out of their traditional upgrade cycle to move asap

[mr moose]

17 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Indeed it does depend, at least in a situation where some things work better with one than the other, but it seems like a lot of huge names have realized that AMD is going to serve them better:

https://www.hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/136478-netflix-eyes-move-amd-epyc-processors-data-centres/

https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/compute/amd-epyc-processors-come-to-google-and-to-google-cloud

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/amd-stock-jumps-as-amazon-starts-using-epyc-chips-in-the-cloud-2018-11-06

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/announcing-new-amd-epyc-based-azure-virtual-machines/

 

Steve even mentioned the other day that their web host is part of this gang.  It's so bad that in many cases apparently they're not just moving to AMD as the time to refresh comes up, they're breaking out of their traditional upgrade cycle to move asap

 

Uptake is good for AMD, no doubt about that.  Most of those are new builds and development so it is not surprising an AMD get a look in (the IT man wouldn't be doing his job if they weren't properly evaluated and AMD wouldn't be doing theirs if they didn't sell any).  But I don't think you will find a company or data centre just start throwing in epyc servers because they are cheaper or a few % faster, it is usually a long process when acquiring or upgrading major hardware (it doesn't matter if that is earth moving equipment, soldering irons in a factory or servers in a data centre).  Also whilst GN might be able to move their hosting to a different data centre on a bad day,  I haven't really seen any reports that servers are failing to the point where a premature upgrade was warranted.

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Uptake is good for AMD, no doubt about that.  Most of those are new builds and development so it is not surprising an AMD get a look in (the IT man wouldn't be doing his job if they weren't properly evaluated and AMD wouldn't be doing theirs if they didn't sell any).  But I don't think you will find a company or data centre just start throwing in epyc servers because they are cheaper or a few % faster, it is usually a long process when acquiring or upgrading major hardware (it doesn't matter if that is earth moving equipment, soldering irons in a factory or servers in a data centre).  Also whilst GN might be able to move their hosting to a different data centre on a bad day,  I haven't really seen any reports that servers are failing to the point where a premature upgrade was warranted.

Sure not for a few percent, but when it's on the order of 170% on top of costing less than 1/3 and using less power and not having security issues left and right, meanwhile offering massively more PCIe connectivity and speed, it starts to look pretty good.  Did you see the original benchmarks for Rome when that came out a few months back?

[amdorintel]

more reason to go with amd

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Sure not for a few percent, but when it's on the order of 170% on top of costing less than 1/3 and using less power and not having security issues left and right, meanwhile offering massively more PCIe connectivity and speed, it starts to look pretty good.  Did you see the original benchmarks for Rome when that came out a few months back?

 

And that is why it is gaining traction (especially in new builds.arrays), but again, majority of business will not upgrade unnecessarily and are not generally attracted by the performance/dollar metric without all other considerations having been addressed.

[NumLock21]

5 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Some people get crazy over 1% perf gains in benchmarks like 3DMark and such,  I'd say 4% is a lot.  

 

 

that's just for competition or e-peen contest where it matters.

In general one should never build a system that's borderline in performance on what they want to do with it. Always give yourself more headroom.

[Mark Kaine]

8 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

e-peen

Yes, I'm aware.

[TheNaitsyrk]

Well, I'll wait for benchmarks.

 

Already have X299 Dark. So unlucky.

 

At least mobo + CPU will cost as much as new Intel CPU so I have options still.

[Master Disaster]

This is what happens when you don't update your architecture for 4 years. Chances are if Intel had hit and released 10nm as planned these bugs would only affect older CPUs but because everything is still based on Skylake even the latest CPUs are still affected.

[Mick Naughty]

Hasn’t this been the case for ever a decade now? Still not seeing a problem.