Gigabyte X570 Master VRM analysis out is OP

[Tenelia]

There goes my dream of high efficiency design... Sigh.

[Herman Mcpootis]

15 hours ago, Deli said:

These 12, 14 phases VRM are totally waste of money. They do it for the marketing purpose. A good solid 8 phases(or 8+2) will be more than enough even for the up coming 16 core CPU. All these extra mosfets do is just jacking up the price of the mobo.

could be worse. they could go UP7 and throw out a 32 phase VRM again...

[Quadriplegic]

6 hours ago, Valentyn said:

Prices seem like they’re going to be Intel level sadly. Wish they’d cut costs and remove the bling and rgb stuff.

Intel level? I'd say far above Intel:
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-05/msi-x570-mainboards-uebersicht-preise/

219€ for entry level X570. B550 better get lot of motherboards, or AMD might start looking like bad value for your money.

[Stroal]

It's important to remember these are the top tier boards. I'm sure the B550 motherboards will have a lower cost. I hope they also have some boards without PCI 4.0, as that seems to be the majority of the costs increase on these new boards. Also the fact that this is the first PCIE 4.0 boards in existence, I think it's acceptable for them to cost a little bit more.

 

Even if you factor in the top tier 3900X, and a $500 motherboard, you're still under the price of a single 9920X with no motherboard. 

[Valentyn]

8 minutes ago, Quadriplegic said:

Intel level? I'd say far above Intel:
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-05/msi-x570-mainboards-uebersicht-preise/

219€ for entry level X570. B550 better get lot of motherboards, or AMD might start looking like bad value for your money.

Bloody hell. motherboard makers trying to cash in Hard!

Just what is the top end boards going to cost then

 

 

7 minutes ago, Stroal said:

It's important to remember these are the top tier boards. I'm sure the B550 motherboards will have a lower cost. I hope they also have some boards without PCI 4.0, as that seems to be the majority of the costs increase on these new boards. Also the fact that this is the first PCIE 4.0 boards in existence, I think it's acceptable for them to cost a little bit more.

 

Even if you factor in the top tier 3900X, and a $500 motherboard, you're still under the price of a single 9920X with no motherboard. 

 

Makes me wonder what the next Threadripper boards will cost then!

[RejZoR]

I wonder if any mobo vendor will make chipset with passive heatpipe cooler instead of fan cooler. Or just larger passive aluminium heatsink that doesn't need a fan.

[Valentyn]

1 minute ago, RejZoR said:

I wonder if any mobo vendor will make chipset with passive heatpipe cooler instead of fan cooler. Or just larger passive aluminium heatsink that doesn't need a fan.

So far only Gigabyte.
 

MSI claim their fans are "virtually silent", and only kick in once temps reach a certain threshold. Now is that noctual low RPM silent, or AMD Vega stock cooling "silent".
 

 

[Stroal]

4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I wonder if any mobo vendor will make chipset with passive heatpipe cooler instead of fan cooler. Or just larger passive aluminium heatsink that doesn't need a fan.

AFAIK, there was a few mobos that didn't have a fan cooler, and had a heat pipe instead. I'm pretty sure Gigabyte had a few/

[Quadriplegic]

5 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Bloody hell. motherboard makers trying to cash in Hard!

Just what is the top end boards going to cost then

 

https://www.computerbase.de/2019-05/msi-x570-mainboards-uebersicht-preise/

Yeah, seems like mid-range mobos will become the new high end mobos (X570 Gaming Pro Carbon at 299€, X470 Gaming Pro Carbon is around 180-200€). 

Boards like Crosshair VIII will probably cost around 400-450€

[ravenshrike]

2 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I wonder if any mobo vendor will make chipset with passive heatpipe cooler instead of fan cooler. Or just larger passive aluminium heatsink that doesn't need a fan.

The Gigabyte Extreme, which is the top tier board, has passive cooling. It's also going to be somewhere around 600 dollars though.

[RejZoR]

MSI on the other hand seems to have VRM heatsinks connected to the chipset heatsink so the fan is actually also cooling the VRM in the end.

 

@ravenshrike

Lol, 600€, I ain't paying that much for a motherboard. X99 at almost 400€ was insane overkill and it died literally over night anyway. Now I have MSI's 190€ one and it's going fine. I've made a resolution not to go this high anymore with prices.

[Quadriplegic]

Update regarding MSI boards pricing - ComputerBase has edited the article, removing the prices in the process. Apparently, they were not correct.

Who knows tho? 

Just in case, pricing of few mobos:

Gaming Plus €219

Gaming Plus Edge WiFi €229

Gaming Pro Carbon €299

MEF Ace around €430

MEG Creation ~530€ if I remember right

[Princess Luna]

Yeah pricing on these boards does feel exaggerated when you compare to Z390...

[Firewrath9]

The X570 Taichi is a 12+2, which is worse than the X470's 12+4...

anyways, the X570 Taichi/Phantom Gaming X/Aqua are all the same PCB, so perhaps I might go with a Z390 Aorus elite.

[Firewrath9]

14 hours ago, Deli said:

Their new X570 itx board looks like a 6+2 phases. I wish it's 8+2.

theres not much space, even the mDTX C8I only has a 6+2.

I'd rather have some 12+2 phase mATX boards, as they have the same dimensions as a ATX but with the bottom third chopped off (4 pcie slots), which doesn't affect the top half where the vrm is.

[Origami Cactus]

3 hours ago, Stroal said:

I hope they also have some boards without PCI 4.0, as that seems to be the majority of the costs increase on these new boards. 

Yes there are, these are called the b450 and x470.

[ravenshrike]

1 hour ago, Firewrath9 said:

The X570 Taichi is a 12+2, which is worse than the X470's 12+4...

anyways, the X570 Taichi/Phantom Gaming X/Aqua are all the same PCB, so perhaps I might go with a Z390 Aorus elite.

At a guess with the shift to the I/O + chiplet system the peripheral parts of the chip require less power.

[Guest]

On 5/28/2019 at 11:11 PM, Deli said:

These 12, 14 phases VRM are totally waste of money. They do it for the marketing purpose. A good solid 8 phases(or 8+2) will be more than enough even for the up coming 16 core CPU. All these extra mosfets do is just jacking up the price of the mobo.

I would be interested to hear how they come up with the 70A rating. Try slapping that much current through a CPU at 1. whatever volts and you won’t need any RGB to light up your case. I would just guess it is the combined capacity of all the MOSFETs which will barely pass any current in the real world. 

 

I will I’ll also be interested to see just how many watts these new setups actually use, and measure how stable and clean the voltage is. 

[Firewrath9]

43 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

I would be interested to hear how they come up with the 70A rating. Try slapping that much current through a CPU at 1. whatever volts and you won’t need any RGB to light up your case. I would just guess it is the combined capacity of all the MOSFETs which will barely pass any current in the real world. 

 

I will I’ll also be interested to see just how many watts these new setups actually use, and measure how stable and clean the voltage is. 

? 70A is per mosfet, which is judged by it on a bare pcb w/ no cooling. b/c its not a bare PCB, but instead a bunch of them packed right next to each other, its probably not 70A

[Deli]

6 hours ago, Firewrath9 said:

theres not much space, even the mDTX C8I only has a 6+2.

I'd rather have some 12+2 phase mATX boards, as they have the same dimensions as a ATX but with the bottom third chopped off (4 pcie slots), which doesn't affect the top half where the vrm is.

Oh, I'm pretty sure they can fit 8+2 phases in an itx board if they choose to. Just remove those RGB headers and craps. Looks like Asrock and Asus both have 8+2 for their itx boards this time.

 

Very sad, MATX is a dying breed. I build my brother in law a 2950X with Asrock X399M. The only MATX board for Threadripper. A very lovely machine.

 

I have a Streacom DA2 case. Depends on how hot the new 3000 series is. I probably will build get a 3900X for the upgrade. Fitting a very powerful system in a mini case is such an satisfactory feeling.

[tbake0155]

5 hours ago, Phill104 said:

I would be interested to hear how they come up with the 70A rating. Try slapping that much current through a CPU at 1. whatever volts and you won’t need any RGB to light up your case. I would just guess it is the combined capacity of all the MOSFETs which will barely pass any current in the real world. 

 

I will I’ll also be interested to see just how many watts these new setups actually use, and measure how stable and clean the voltage is. 

I'm not sure I follow you. 70A at 1.5V would produce 105W, completely reasonable power draw for a modern cpu.  It's exactly because cpus are using such low voltage that high current is needed. 

 

With any power delivery mosfet, you are better offer going beefier than needed because the efficiency will be better and it will produce less heat (effectively efficient and low heat output are synonymous in this case).

 

Ideally, engineers can maximize efficiency but it's not always up to just engineers, the bottom line comes into play as well.

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, Phill104 said:

I would be interested to hear how they come up with the 70A rating. Try slapping that much current through a CPU at 1. whatever volts and you won’t need any RGB to light up your case. I would just guess it is the combined capacity of all the MOSFETs which will barely pass any current in the real world. 

 

I will I’ll also be interested to see just how many watts these new setups actually use, and measure how stable and clean the voltage is. 

 I understand that perception, anyone with a first hand experience of Current calculations and cross sectional capacities would be like WTF is this all about.  But it makes sense when you consider that the CPU has many power pins to deliver and spread the current load.   AM4 has one thousand 300 something pins, so even if only 100 of them were for power delivery that is still less than an amp per pin at 1.5V to maintain over 100 Watts direct to the cores of the CPU.

 

I haven't bothered looking to see exactly how many power pins there are or the core voltage for the new Ryzens, (haven't even watched the video) but shuffle the numbers around and you get the idea how it works.  16 fets with a theoretical max of 70 amps each gives you  enough headroom and without significant thermal issues.

 

 

[Jito463]

16 hours ago, mr moose said:

AM4 has one thousand 300 something pins,

1331.  I remember that specifically, because they were so close to the perfect comeback socket  Just 6 more pins (even if they were empty ones) and it would have been something no one would forget.  Missed opportunity right there.

[Firewrath9]

Just now, Jito463 said:

1331.  I remember that specifically, because they were so close to the perfect comeback socket  Just 6 more pins (even if they were empty ones) and it would have been something no one would forget.  Missed opportunity right there.

Intel new 224 core CPU. Has 8 28 core dies on their brand new Chernobyl Lake™ 14nm Original Extreme Xeon processor, low low MSRP of 694201337$, pn their new 31337 pin socket

5GHZ all core base clock, and definetly no glue (uses intel epoxy™)

also introducing the new 69 pin connector, which can supply the full 4200W of power

[mr moose]

45 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

1331.  I remember that specifically, because they were so close to the perfect comeback socket  Just 6 more pins (even if they were empty ones) and it would have been something no one would forget.  Missed opportunity right there.

 

I was out by 31 with a guess.  I want a prize!