Apple's doesn't want to support Nvidia in macOS

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

100% nVidia's fault huh? Which is why the exact same products were present on literally dozens of laptops by other manufacturers without the characteristic issue the Apple devices had? Pretty extreme analysis there.

You mean they were so good at the time that nobody sued them??

Let me look:

https://www.engadget.com/2010/09/30/nvidia-reaches-settlement-in-class-action-suit-affecting-apple/

https://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/21/nvidia-finally-understands-bumpgate/

 

So no, they failed everywhere!

And they settled a Class Action Lawsuit.

EVERYONE was pissed at nVidia. But thanks to people like you they don't have the power to show them the middle finger. Apple does.

And also Apple wants to control the drivers.

nVidia doesn't want that (maybe because their cheating might get exposed that way??)

[Stefan Payne]

3 hours ago, Arika S said:

so "fuck the consumer" is the right answer because of a grudge? this hurts consumers MUCH more than it does NVidia.

So if someone (like a Plumber, Electrician) is the worst person to you, treats you like shit, doesn't give you any warranty for the shit he messes up.

And then you are expected to get stuff from them again because it "hurts the consumer"??? 

 

Ähhh, really.

Why the heck do people defend nVidia so much?!

 

Do you not get what the Problem was?
They sold chips to all manufacturers that failed left and right and saidthem "yeah, sucks to be you" "you want money from us, that we sold you chips that will break? YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY!!"

Yeah, sure...

 

And where are the nVidia supported Open Source Drivers??

Where's the Support from nVidia for the Open Source drivers?

And why the heck are people still working on the Nuveau stuff? If they don't get any support from nVidia, on the contrary, they are sabotaging the drivers...

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

So if someone (like a Plumber, Electrician) is the worst person to you, treats you like shit, doesn't give you any warranty for the shit he messes up.

And then you are expected to get stuff from them again because it "hurts the consumer"??? 

that's not the same situation, you can CHOSE not to use the trades person again as an individual. apple is telling you you CAN'T. there is no middle man making choices for you in your situation.

 

Quote

Why the heck do people defend nVidia so much?!

on the flip side, why do people defend AMD so much?!

and to be clear, I'm not "defending" anyone. i'm saying this is a bullshit move from apple that will only hurt their consumers.

 

Quote

They sold chips to all manufacturers that failed left and right and saidthem "yeah, sucks to be you" "you want money from us, that we sold you chips that will break? YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY!!"

Yeah, sure...

Except that Apple was the only one to have those chips fail

[Curufinwe_wins]

11 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Snip

2008 bumpgate event (which was nVidia's fault, and did pay for it), vs another later 2010 MBP one related to capacitor failure, which wasn't common to other manufacturers. Sorry for forgetting about bumpgate.

 

For reference, Apple used nvidia graphics (with occasional ATI as well) all the way until the 2014 MB Pro... so the series of events claim is still incorrect.

 

And cheating like having a whole different bios mode specifically designed for cheating a single benchmark? Well actually a number of them. All for individual benchmarks.

[Stefan Payne]

Just now, Arika S said:

Except that Apple was the only one to have those chips fail

Did you click on the Link?!
Those always failed, even on Desktop cards, in HP, Dell and so on...

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, Arika S said:

that's not the same situation, you can CHOSE not to use the trades person again as an individual. apple is telling you you CAN'T. there is no middle man making choices for you in your situation.

 

on the flip side, why do people defend AMD so much?!

and to be clear, I'm not "defending" anyone. i'm saying this is a bullshit move from apple that will only hurt their consumers.

 

Except that Apple was the only one to have those chips fail

Bumpgate they were not. The 2010 kernal panic though was unique to apple. Even as an interaction with the nvidia graphics (due to a poorly spec'd capacitor).

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Did you click on the Link?!
Those always failed, even on Desktop cards, in HP, Dell and so on...

apologies, i was referring to the kernalpanic

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

So if someone (like a Plumber, Electrician) is the worst person to you, treats you like shit, doesn't give you any warranty for the shit he messes up.

And then you are expected to get stuff from them again because it "hurts the consumer"??? 

 

Ähhh, really.

Why the heck do people defend nVidia so much?!

 

Do you not get what the Problem was?
They sold chips to all manufacturers that failed left and right and saidthem "yeah, sucks to be you" "you want money from us, that we sold you chips that will break? YOU WILL NEVER GET ANY!!"

Yeah, sure...

 

And where are the nVidia supported Open Source Drivers??

Where's the Support from nVidia for the Open Source drivers?

And why the heck are people still working on the Nuveau stuff? If they don't get any support from nVidia, on the contrary, they are sabotaging the drivers...

I really don't think you understand what is going on here, you are on a crusade against rationality. Why do you view everything you disagree with as people "defending".  All companies make mistakes, engage in practices that land them in legal trouble, sometimes they are guilty and sometimes they are innocent.  Nvidia isn't totally the evil imminence in all situations, apart from being completely egregious to reality, it is absurd to think that in situations like this that one side is angelic.  Apple really haven't got a leg to stand on here because they are blocking the product from being used by consumers, NOT Nvidia.  You can't use past practices to hold them guilty in the face of the evidence. Besides the fact you link to an article that claims nvidia did a whole heap to try and fix the problem but couldn't.  Which is a far cry from the insidious evil trying to get out of it insinuation you are peddling.

 

Quote

 

This dawned on me when I noticed Nvidia was hiring a lot of thermal engineers in late 2008 to solve the problem retroactively. The disconnect was that the bumpgate failures were not due to a thermal problem per se. The chips did not cook to death.

Nvidia’s bumps were cracking due to repeated thermal stresses, leading to physical failure.

...

If Nvidia can find someone to sit in that particular hot seat, then in a year or so, it might have a handle on its package problems.

 

Does not look like they were just ignoring it and hoping it would go away, it seems they genuinely thought it was a thermal issue by the OEM designers.

[Stefan Payne]

15 hours ago, Arika S said:

apologies, i was referring to the kernalpanic

C7110 or something like that? 

The 330µF Tantalum Cap??

 

15 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

And cheating like having a whole different bios mode specifically designed for cheating a single benchmark? Well actually a number of them. All for individual benchmarks.

No, cheating as in doing something else than the developer wants like removing objects without the developer's consent after he sent them the code of the game. 

 

There was a guy in the German 3DCenter Forum complaining about it. Sadly he deleted his Account...

 

That's also what they are beeing accused of with the Gameworks shit, that they implement one thing in the game and do something else in the actual game.

 

15 hours ago, mr moose said:

I really don't think you understand what is going on here, you are on a crusade against rationality.

No, you are defending nVidia for no reason.

You do not know what was going on behind the scenes.

For example look at the Linux Kernel. Where is the Open Source Part of the nVidia Driver? 

There isn't any. They don't comply to the Specification. AMD does. Intel does. Everone else does.

That also causes Problems with for example Wayland and other stuff because.

 

And there are also other examples of nVidia beeing total dicks. Did you forget the Geforce Partner Programme and the lies around that??

 

Its totally Apple's right to close off their Kernel and NOT allow 3rd Party drivers, as you can cite lack of APIs for that and security concerns - like on Linux where nVidia hacks the Kernel instead of adopting the Spec wich is an open source part in the Kernel. 

 

They don't do that because others can then look at the Driver Code and might see something they shouldn't - or nVidia might show their "real Performance"; wich is way under what its on Windows right now because they can't do the Content Replacement they do right now.

 

But hey, its always the other guy's fault, right?

 

Quote

Nvidia isn't totally the evil imminence in all situations

After the shit with the Geforce Partner Programme, how can someone say shit like this?!
That's really appalling...

Yeah, that was totally not evil. To misuse and abuse the power they have to force their "partners" to kick out the AMD Chips from their well known brands and make new Brands...

Yeah, that's really not evil...

 

Sorry dude but with that, they don't deserve the "benefit of the doubt" as they have shown over and over again that they are bad people.

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

C7110 or something like that? 

The 330µF Tantalum Cap??

 

No, cheating as in doing something else than the developer wants like removing objects without the developer's consent after he sent them the code of the game. 

 

There was a guy in the German 3DCenter Forum complaining about it. Sadly he deleted his Account...

 

That's also what they are beeing accused of with the Gameworks shit, that they implement one thing in the game and do something else in the actual game.

 

No, you are defending nVidia for no reason.

You do not know what was going on behind the scenes.

For example look at the Linux Kernel. Where is the Open Source Part of the nVidia Driver? 

There isn't any. They don't comply to the Specification. AMD does. Intel does. Everone else does.

That also causes Problems with for example Wayland and other stuff because.

 

And there are also other examples of nVidia beeing total dicks. Did you forget the Geforce Partner Programme and the lies around that??

 

Its totally Apple's right to close off their Kernel and NOT allow 3rd Party drivers, as you can cite lack of APIs for that and security concerns - like on Linux where nVidia hacks the Kernel instead of adopting the Spec wich is an open source part in the Kernel. 

 

They don't do that because others can then look at the Driver Code and might see something they shouldn't - or nVidia might show their "real Performance"; wich is way under what its on Windows right now because they can't do the Content Replacement they do right now.

 

But hey, its always the other guy's fault, right?

 

After the shit with the Geforce Partner Programme, how can someone say shit like this?!
That's really appalling...

Yeah, that was totally not evil. To misuse and abuse the power they have to force their "partners" to kick out the AMD Chips from their well known brands and make new Brands...

Yeah, that's really not evil...

 

Sorry dude but with that, they don't deserve the "benefit of the doubt" as they have shown over and over again that they are bad people.

The denial is strong in this one.

 

 

You claim it's apples right to deny users the driver they require for their hardware and yet still claim it's nvidia's fault.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[Ashleyyyy]

On 1/21/2019 at 12:20 AM, mr moose said:

In fact I have read on many forums that many people consider nvidia drivers on linux to be generally better

NO, JUST NO

 

the nvidia control panel doesn't remember settings unless you put them in your xorg.conf file, which is a problem because most mainstrean distro's use the Gnome desktop. which doesn't support xorg anymore. so there is no xorg.conf file. 

 

on top of that i have had various systems brick themselfves because of the nvidia drivers where the only way to fix them was to boot into the recovery console and uninstall the nvidia drivers. and then waiting until it gets fixed because installing the drivers again will brick the system again. 

[mr moose]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

NO, JUST NO

 

the nvidia control panel doesn't remember settings unless you put them in your xorg.conf file, which is a problem because most mainstrean distro's use the Gnome desktop. which doesn't support xorg anymore. so there is no xorg.conf file. 

 

on top of that i have had various systems brick themselfves because of the nvidia drivers where the only way to fix them was to boot into the recovery console and uninstall the nvidia drivers. and then waiting until it gets fixed because installing the drivers again will brick the system again. 

 

Are you saying I haven't read that?  Interesting that you know what I've read better than me.

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2911459/why-nvidia-graphics-cards-are-the-worst-for-open-source-but-the-best-for-linux-gaming.html

https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/hardware/graphics-cards/1042006-a-fresh-look-at-the-nvidia-vs-radeon-linux-performance-perf-per-watt-for-august-2018

And the a reddit chat seems to support what I said:

 

I do agree that this isn;t the be all and end all of it, but I really didn't think that qualification had to be made.

 

[Ashleyyyy]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Are you saying I haven't read that?  Interesting that you know what I've read better than me.

i never said i did...? why so agressive?

[Stefan Payne]

10 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The denial is strong in this one.

As is in you, because nVidia Violates the Linux Specification with the Open Source Driver part in the Kernel.

AMD does not.

 

AMD does support the Open Source Driver while also having a Closed Source one.

nVidia does NOT support the Open Source driver and is sabotaging it.

 

And the Linux Kernel doesn't really have an API to support Kernel Mode Drivers. Windows does.

So you _NEED_ Open Source Parts.

 

And you know who makes the AMD Drivers for MacOS? Little hint: NOT AMD.

 

Quote

You claim it's apples right to deny users the driver they require for their hardware and yet still claim it's nvidia's fault.

Yes, because we _KNOW_ that nVidia doesn't allow Open Source Driver or other persons making them.

AMD does.

They don't have a Problem with APple writing the drivers for OSX. Wich is why Apple uses AMD and not nVidia.

Because nVidia isn't cooperative.

 

Oh and one Thing you're missing is the 3rd Party to the Graphics Market!

Intel.

They don't even have Closed Source drivers at all!!

So they aren't excluded from OSX either - maybe because they support "3rd party Driver Development"??

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

i never said i did...? why so agressive?

becasue you literally snipped this out of my post

On 1/21/2019 at 10:20 AM, mr moose said:

In fact I have read on many forums that many people consider nvidia drivers on linux to be generally better if you are choosing hardware.

 

And responded with this:

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

NO, JUST NO

 

the nvidia control panel doesn't remember settings unless you put them in your xorg.conf file, which is a problem because most mainstrean distro's use the Gnome desktop. which doesn't support xorg anymore. so there is no xorg.conf file. 

 

on top of that i have had various systems brick themselfves because of the nvidia drivers where the only way to fix them was to boot into the recovery console and uninstall the nvidia drivers. and then waiting until it gets fixed because installing the drivers again will brick the system again. 

So yes you did say it.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

As is in you, because nVidia Violates the Linux Specification with the Open Source Driver part in the Kernel.

AMD does not.

 

AMD does support the Open Source Driver while also having a Closed Source one.

nVidia does NOT support the Open Source driver and is sabotaging it.

 

And the Linux Kernel doesn't really have an API to support Kernel Mode Drivers. Windows does.

So you _NEED_ Open Source Parts.

 

And you know who makes the AMD Drivers for MacOS? Little hint: NOT AMD.

 

Yes, because we _KNOW_ that nVidia doesn't allow Open Source Driver or other persons making them.

AMD does.

They don't have a Problem with APple writing the drivers for OSX. Wich is why Apple uses AMD and not nVidia.

Because nVidia isn't cooperative.

 

Oh and one Thing you're missing is the 3rd Party to the Graphics Market!

Intel.

They don't even have Closed Source drivers at all!!

So they aren't excluded from OSX either - maybe because they support "3rd party Driver Development"??

 

Is that how you justify hating nvidia/praising AMD to yourself?

 

It must be really sad having to bend reality that far so as not to upset your personal ideals.

[SansVarnic]

-= Topic Locked =-

 

Sigh . . .

Discussion and debate are the fundamental and core reason for having this sub-section of the forum.Arguments and backlash is not. 

There are valid points to all sides of the argument here but I believe this has run its course and the thread is derailing.

Edited January 22, 2019 by SansVarnic