amd marketing trick? AMD B350 chipset not supporting decent overclocking, contrary to what users expect?

[pstarlord]

11 minutes ago, D4n said:

Then I wonder how long a Ryzen 5 1600X lasts under 1.5 V, like this guy for example did, as can be seen in his CPU-Z screenshot https://hwbot.org/submission/3657726_ch33ba_cpu_frequency_ryzen_5_1600x_4264.82_mhz

 

You need to understand that when you see screen shots like this, its rarely someone's "everyday settings."  This person isn't running his system at 1.5V all day long.  Probably just long enough to complete whatever benchmark he was going for, then put it back down below 1.4v.  Now, I don't know his cooling solution, maybe he's got a custom loop going, cooling every aspect of his mobo and is able to keep the heating under control, but given the price of a that kind of cooling compared to the price of that system...I highly doubt it. 

 

I had an overclock of my 1700X up to 4.1Ghz for a while, pushing my X370 mobo with 1.45v.  It was stable enough for everyday thing, and would run most benchmarks fine, but under a long enough load it overheated my VRMs and made my system crash.  On Ryzen's 1000 series chips, you really start to see a diminishing returns once your voltage hits like 1.35v.  I now run my system at 3.9Ghz because it'll handle any extended work load at 1.3v.  And the small amount of performance loss in real world application is A-barely noticeable and B-completely worth it because my PC doesn't crash. haha. 

[miagisan]

I wouldn't consider yourself a "seasoned" over clocker if alot of this is strange to you. Every chip is different (silicon lottery), and motherboard VRM's play a big part in overclocking besides heat and voltage. For example, my asus r9 290x DCII OC should overclock very well according to a ton of websites, but i push anything more than 40 mhz overclock and it just locks up no matter how much voltage i throw at it. I lost hardcore on the silicon lottery.

 

Secondly, there is a virtual wall on the original ryzen chips. 4.0 ghz or higher is not easily attained.

[Stormseeker9]

2 hours ago, D4n said:

Then I wonder how long a Ryzen 5 1600X lasts under 1.5 V, like this guy for example did, as can be seen in his CPU-Z screenshot https://hwbot.org/submission/3657726_ch33ba_cpu_frequency_ryzen_5_1600x_4264.82_mhz

It will definitely shorten the lifespan of the CPU 

[D4n]

Well done, tech companies, well done... Not even a REASON stated why it's failing!! WTF GIGABYTE

 

It worked fine yesterday on 4.00 GHz, now even 3.8 won't work anymore... Omfg

[Bravo1cc]

18 hours ago, aisle9 said:

Overclocking to a certain speed is not guaranteed. Sustained (not boost) 4.0GHz and above was a task on the OG Ryzen chips, even on a good board. You're using boards with garbage power delivery and expecting a speed that you'd need at least a midrange X370 to get to stability at. Consider reading or watching one of the many available Ryzen overclocking guides (I think Tech YES City did a good B350 one) then trying again, with the understanding that shooting the moon on your first attempt then complaining on a forum is probably not going to get results.

I agree with this, i bought the X370 Gaming F a very strong board and this wont clock to 4.0Ghz, i can get a stable 3.9 and that's the limit. 

[D4n]

So, with the 3xxx I'll save those 15 € and not spend it on a X version CPU which doesn't even properly allow overclocking (be it the mainboard manufacturers or AMD, who cause this). Or I'll go back to Intel for better single-core FP + int perf...

[Bravo1cc]

18 minutes ago, D4n said:

So, with the 3xxx I'll save those 15 € and not spend it on a X version CPU which doesn't even properly allow overclocking (be it the mainboard manufacturers or AMD, who cause this). Or I'll go back to Intel for better single-core FP + int perf...

Just simply what others have been telling you, you need to research your components more before buying them. There is plenty out there to help you, you just need to spend the time looking. If you are not sure and don't want to spend the time looking then buy a pre-built that says it can be overclocked or already is.

[WereCatf]

4 minutes ago, Bravo1cc said:

you need to research your components more before buying them

I went with a big, beefy Noctua NH-D12S for my cooler, I have a quality PSU, I have a case with actually great airflow and I spent a good while looking at the various motherboards and chose mine because of it having quite good VRM-solution, and yet, I still ended up with a kind of a dud as my 8700K just refuses to be stable at 5GHz, no matter how many volts I toss at it.

 

This is to say, like Bravo there said, you really should pay some attention to what components you buy, but, in the end, it's still a game of luck.

[bowrilla]

2 hours ago, D4n said:

Well done, tech companies, well done... Not even a REASON stated why it's failing!! WTF GIGABYTE

 

It worked fine yesterday on 4.00 GHz, now even 3.8 won't work anymore... Omfg

Your ignorance amazes me. People actually explained to you how overclocking works, that you're not guaranteed anthing beyond stock, that your board is weak and probably not suited vor overclocking, that you can't just put in some numbers and expect overclocking to just work, that manual voltage control is needed for proper results and that it's ultimately a game of (silicon) luck - and you're still complaining about things that are basically just the way things work and are fine for basically everyone else who did a bit of research and successfully maxed out their overclocking potential. But sure, bad bad bad tech companies.

[D4n]

7 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

your board is weak and probably not suited vor overclocking

"X370" and "weak" ? Seriously? Wasn't it "AB350M" and "weak" that belong together here?

[seon123]

2 minutes ago, D4n said:

"X370" and "weak" ? Seriously? Wasn't it "AB350M" and "weak" that belong together here?

That's the chipset. The DS3H is super crap, and worse than most B350 boards in terms of the VRM, using a crappy 4 phase with super low end MOSFETs. 

[bowrilla]

9 minutes ago, D4n said:

"X370" and "weak" ? Seriously? Wasn't it "AB350M" and "weak" that belong together here?

There are a lot of bad X370 and X470 boards out there. The chipset doesn't say much about the overclocking capabilities of a specific board. It needs good VRM and proper VRM cooling. It's up to the manufacturers what kind of VRM design and cooling solution they choose. Can be good, can be bad. You need to do some research. If you have a decent or even good board (you haven't specified that) then you might be just out of luck and the rest of the post still applies.

 

P.S.: This applies to Intel as well. It's up to the mainboard manufacturers to provide VRM designs. There are a lot of bad Z-class mainboards out there. Chipsets mean nothing in regards to VRM designs. On Intel you just have to buy Zxxx boards for overclocking. AMD is at least fair enough to give you options. Most of the extra features you'll get with a Zxxx or Xxxx chipset are useless for most users.

[Princess Luna]

21 hours ago, NunoLava1998 said:

Get a B450M PRO4, B450 PRO4, B450M MORTAR, B450 TOMAHAWK and try again

Makes no sense to buy a new motherboard for a couple hundred mhz, just wait for the X570 chipset ones and Ryzen 2 at this point if OP is THAT much bothered with his performance.

[bowrilla]

Ah, now I see. The HWinfo screenshot gives away your mainboard. Well, congratulations, that board is pretty much garbage for overclocking. You might be ok with Ryzen 5 and stock speeds on that board but that's about it. Flimsy cooler, 4 phases and according to tests pretty weak ones on top of that. µATX is a tricky business when going for an Ryzen system: at best you'll get a mediocre board (as of now B450M Mortar, still 4 phases but has at least proper cooling), at worst you'll end up with garbage. Funny enough: there are good mITX boards out there like the ASUS ROG Strix B450-I and X470-I (basically identical so no point in opting for the more expensive X470 version).

[Bravo1cc]

OP this is a really useful article if you need it. 

 

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/1229-anatomy-of-a-motherboard-what-is-a-vrm-mosfet?showall=1

[D4n]

Quote

like this guy for example did

@bowrilla That's literally what I wrote JUST before the hwbot link... that is not my hwbot account!!! READ, thank you.

 

29 minutes ago, bowrilla said:

If you have a decent or even good board (you haven't specified that)

Yes, sorry, I spent a whopping 80 $ (converted) on my AX370-M DS3H (was the cheapest X370 that I could find).

So, is there or isn't there a website out there that recommends specific X370 boards or not? How would a non-championship-overclocker know which boards exactly have a (one or several, idk) "good" or "bad VRM" ?

But I think I'm done here, will wait for either Ryzen 3xxx to release or get an i5 k version (maybe 6xxxK or 7xxxK, at least Intel CPUs overclock reliably, IF that didn't change since the i7 2600K that I got to 4.4 GHz no problem, back in the days)

[Princess Luna]

10 minutes ago, D4n said:

was the cheapest X370 that I could find

That is the thing... you get what you pay for... there are reviews online and all but ultimately the best thing you do is ASK in here first before purchasing any thing so experienced people can guide you out more appropriately.

 

[D4n]

But that's the thing... what is production cost of a mainboard in china, something like 20, 30 $ probably? The amount of profit they want to make on it is ridiculous

Also, I can still refund my AX370 if I want to.

[bowrilla]

18 minutes ago, D4n said:

@bowrilla That's literally what I wrote JUST before the hwbot link... that is not my hwbot account!!! READ, thank you.

What are you trying to say?

 

18 minutes ago, D4n said:

Yes, sorry, I spent a whopping 80 $ (converted) on my AX370-M DS3H (was the cheapest X370 that I could find).

The cheapest solution is rarely the best solution. That board is cheap for a reason.

18 minutes ago, D4n said:

So, is there or isn't there a website out there that recommends specific X370 boards or not? How would a non-championship-overclocker know which boards exactly have a (one or several, idk) "good" or "bad VRM" ?

Watch/read thorough reviews by anandtech, gamersnexus or buildzoid. There are some overviews int the AMD subreddit. For B450/X470 see this one: 

And then there's always German site hardwareluxx providing a thorough overview though without rating: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html You will get the gist if you try to read it a bit even without any knowledge of German.

18 minutes ago, D4n said:

But I think I'm done here, will wait for either Ryzen 3xxx to release or get an i5 k version (maybe 6xxxK or 7xxxK, at least Intel CPUs overclock reliably, IF that didn't change since the i7 2600K that I got to 4.4 GHz no problem, back in the days)

People already told you: it's the bloody same with Intel. A cheap Zxxx board and a bad performing chip won't get you anywhere. Overclocking means you have to invest some time researching and then testing your specific combination.

[aisle9]

 

3 hours ago, D4n said:

So, with the 3xxx I'll save those 15 € and not spend it on a X version CPU which doesn't even properly allow overclocking (be it the mainboard manufacturers or AMD, who cause this). Or I'll go back to Intel for better single-core FP + int perf...

Go back and read something about overclocking Ryzen before you try again. The non-X CPUs are perfectly capable of great overclocks. Source: me and everyone else who's ever owned a non-X Ryzen CPU. All the X gets you is (theoretically) a higher bin and XFR.

 

Seriously, read. Watch. You'd see how silly the complaints you have are if you spent literally ten minutes researching Ryzen overclocking before whining that your CPU can't hold a very high overclock on a shit motherboard. If you're not going to research how to overclock before you piss and moan about things you don't understand, then save yourself the headache, buy an H310 motherboard and an i5-8400 and get on with life.

[Herman Mcpootis]

2 hours ago, D4n said:

"X370" and "weak" ? Seriously? Wasn't it "AB350M" and "weak" that belong together here?

 

here's a pic of your X370 board:

 

and here's the pic of the AB350M-DS3H.

 

notice how they look the same? that's because they are exactly the same thing with a different chipset. you didn't pay for a better board, you just paid for a different chipset. this board is one of the crappier B350 boards out there, so what were you expecting when you tried overclocking?

[D4n]

1 hour ago, Herman Mcpootis said:

 hat were you expecting when you tried overclocking?

Better "VRMs" for example, who knows if those are also the same in those two boards.

[NunoLava1998]

25 minutes ago, D4n said:

Better "VRMs" for example, who knows if those are also the same in those two boards.

They're probably the same, considering they look the exact same:

 

[SenKa]

You also bought an AZ370. Rememeber what we all said about AB350 to where they were omega cheap hybrid chipsets with bad VRM's as designated by the A?

 

[aezakmi]

Not all CPUs are the same so you can't expect to overclock any CPU to any frequency using the same voltage values

 

Also not all of the boards are the same, your board is a low end one so it's built for low end CPUs, it remains compatible with high end ones like the 2700 but it'll struggle to keep it running at anything that's not the stock speed, also, Gigabyte boards are mostly for budget builds so you pay for that kind of performance, you just can't overclock on those.