Windows 10 May Reserve Another 7GB For Updates.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

love Linux has Kbs worth of updates

Which is why the OS is a backend stuck in 2001, despite the paintjob from 2009.

[TechyBen]

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Which is why the OS is a backend stuck in 2001, despite the paintjob from 2009.

I have no idea what you are going on about. Do you?

 

How big an update does Mac OS use? Or do you claim Mac OS is also stuck in 2001?

As said, this is an ISO problem. ISO is 3-4GB, unpacked is 3-4gb previous version ISO is 3-4 GB for rollbacks on borked update (install 20 odd GB). So 7gb reserve sounds about right. Either that or it's 4gb for the iso now, and an extra 3gb for space/unpacking or just future proofing. It's not an OS or "update" problem. It's MS deciding on forced OS installs. Or MS moving from an "update" system, to an entire "reinstall/refresh/new OS" system. While the older 32GB tablets (other brands to MS exist!!!) worked on Win10 original flavour, MS has decided to mid life cycle for over to this new system disregarding limitations on older hardware.

 

That's a choice by MS, not some magical fairy some here wish to believe in.

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

How big an update does Mac OS use?

Typically Megabytes. Like Windows. Hundreds of Megabytes if needed.

 

8 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Or do you claim Mac OS is also stuck in 2001?

No, unlike the Linux dev community, Apple is capable of moving on and adapting at a decent rate.

9 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

this is an ISO problem

No, it's a solution to update issues.

And the kicker, for over a decade, actual Windows users complained about not getting updates (because they don't do them) and updates failing (partially because they clutter their systems with too much shit).

 

So, basically, no matter what Microsoft does, people complain.

[Peskanova]

On 1/9/2019 at 6:27 AM, RorzNZ said:

If 7gb is a huge amount for you, time for an update!

Well I have 120gb ssd for OS and 500gb ssd for games + 1tb hdd for trash, but where I work as IT there are plenty of laptops / administration computers that uses 120gb ssd as main and only drive so Its not just fuck you and update your rig, there are a lot of variables outside your house so dont be mean

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

Which is why the OS is a backend stuck in 2001, despite the paintjob from 2009.

Im pretty sure that applies to MS and not to linux. the way linux does updates is way better than MS  with their lazy "download the full iso and run an upgrade from it". Its just insane how someone thought its a good idea...

(One more advantage of linux is the fact that you can have a local update mirror. You can leave it to sync when you dont use the internet[almost any NAS will do if it has rsync installed] then you can update from it very fast whenever its convenient for you.)

[Uttamattamakin]

13 hours ago, 79wjd said:

You can think that, but you'd be wrong.

"Cripple" "a lot" of users that bought something that was already obsolete.

 

There was also a special education edition 32gb Surface 3.

at the attitude shown by deeming a computer that is simply... sufficient... as obsolete.   A computer with a 32 bit processor is obsolete.  A computer with only a floppy drive is obsolete.   A computer with better IO than a surface pro and 32 GB should not be obsolete unless something fundamental has changed. (i.e. see above for a fundamental change to computer architecture.)

I knew I had seen such a device.  I know for a fact there exist specially made portables with 32 GB and LTE used in institutional settings.   (Just as the surface pro LTE was once restricted to business.) 

 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

at the attitude shown by deeming a computer that is simply... sufficient... as obsolete

They're obsolete, by multiple definitions.

[Uttamattamakin]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

They're obsolete, by multiple definitions.

If what you use your computer for is AAA gaming yes. 

 

From the perspective of someone who does 3D Design work, CAD, scientific workstation task such as developing CUDA code and open CL code to be ran on super computers  even a Core i9 9900k and a Titan would be "obsolete" .... but only a {advertiser friendly content} would call them that. 


 

Quote

Well I have 120gb ssd for OS and 500gb ssd for games + 1tb hdd for trash, but where I work as IT there are plenty of laptops / administration computers that uses 120gb ssd as main and only drive so Its not just fuck you and update your rig, there are a lot of variables outside your house so dont be mean

Exactly.   So many secnarios where computers were sold as being good enough for long term... 5-10 year use are now shown to have been lies. 

[TechyBen]

2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Typically Megabytes. Like Windows. Hundreds of Megabytes if needed.

 

No, unlike the Linux dev community, Apple is capable of moving on and adapting at a decent rate.

No, it's a solution to update issues.

And the kicker, for over a decade, actual Windows users complained about not getting updates (because they don't do them) and updates failing (partially because they clutter their systems with too much shit).

 

So, basically, no matter what Microsoft does, people complain.

[Bold emphasis mine] Nope, Win 10 is now 7GB... as in, they have reserved 7GB. What is the reserve/requires space for MacOS? Even Android needs about 4gb these days. XD

 

As to everything else you typed. You are sadly deluded. Thanks, bye.

[Uttamattamakin]

1 minute ago, TechyBen said:

[Bold emphasis mine] Nope, Win 10 is now 7GB... as in, they have reserved 7GB. What is the reserve/requires space for MacOS? Even Android needs about 4gb these days. XD

 

As to everything else you typed. You are sadly deluded. Thanks, bye.

I think you misunderstand. 

 

The 7GB is in addition to what the OS takes up already. 

[TechyBen]

Just now, Uttamattamakin said:

I think you misunderstand. 

 

The 7GB is in addition to what the OS takes up already. 

It's "reserved space". That's what it is. I don't misunderstand. Windows is reserving the space for updates. If they said "7GB for temp/archive bundling/cache" I'd go "wow, great idea", if they go "7GB for our stupid ISO stores" then no, it's stupid. XD

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

If what you use your computer for is AAA gaming yes

There is no qualification.

 

They are obsolete.

Obsolete =/=unusable.

 

 

By some definitions, the machine in my profile is obsolete. And it is.

[TechyBen]

Just now, Drak3 said:

There is no qualification.

 

They are obsolete.

Obsolete =/=unusable.

 

 

By some definitions, the machine in my profile is obsolete. And it is.

Quote

Definition: "no longer produced or used; out of date."

Used yes. Produced, sometimes yes. Again with the denial. 

[79wjd]

 

22 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Exactly.   So many secnarios where computers were sold as being good enough for long term... 5-10 year use are now shown to have been lies. 

It's no one's fault but your own of you bought a computer with 32gb of storage thinking it was a good long term investment given that it was barely sufficient at the time for all but the lightest of users. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Peskanova said:

Well I have 120gb ssd for OS and 500gb ssd for games + 1tb hdd for trash, but where I work as IT there are plenty of laptops / administration computers that uses 120gb ssd as main and only drive so Its not just fuck you and update your rig, there are a lot of variables outside your house so dont be mean

I'm not being mean. 120gb would have been fine a while ago, but now SSDs have dropped in price such as that 250GB SSDs are only $20 more than 120gb. Makes absolutely no sense to keep using 120GB. Arguing over $30ea thats nothing to any company. 

 

Whether anyone likes it or not, this 7GB is going to be allocated to the main drive and locked up as reserved space, no use saying low capacity drives can slice the mustard when they can't anymore. 

[Drak3]

23 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Used yes. Produced, sometimes yes. Again with the denial. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete

 

 

Unless you're arguing that:

• Windows 95/98 is not obsolete as businesses still use that when newer versions don't support specific applications and interfaces they require.
• Muzzle loading rifles are not obsolete as they're still manufactured and used for hunting.
• 90's era vehicles are not obsolete as there is still a considerable amount of them in use today.

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

120gb would have been fine a while ago,

It's still fine now for anyone that doesn't save dozens of gigabytes in garbage they won't touch.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

It's still fine now for anyone that doesn't save dozens of gigabytes in garbage they won't touch.

Yeah but when you're deploying computers for individuals that aren't tech savvy, you don't want your job to be this 24/7.

[Drak3]

Just now, RorzNZ said:

Yeah but when you're deploying computers for individuals that aren't tech savvy, you don't want your job to be this 24/7.

I mean, part of my job is maintaining a literal dozen systems for my company. Hasn't been an issue yet.

[Guest]

Just now, Drak3 said:

I mean, part of my job is maintaining a literal dozen systems for my company. Hasn't been an issue yet.

I'm envisioning a more full time gig with at least fifty computers or something. It's like $30 to upgrade anyway. 

[Drak3]

Just now, RorzNZ said:

I'm envisioning a more full time gig with at least fifty computers or something. It's like $30 to upgrade anyway. 

I have a simple solution. Point the downloads folder to a capped VHD.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Im pretty sure that applies to MS and not to linux. the way linux does updates is way better than MS  with their lazy "download the full iso and run an upgrade from it". Its just insane how someone thought its a good idea...

It has reduced a lot of problems:

• Fix any mess the user might have done on their system
• Replace system files that have been modified by a virus, if the system was infected (anti-virus does not fix modified system files. It just removes the virus. It is, of course, all about prevention, detecting virus before the infection is deployed on the system. But sometimes it passes through)
• Forces open space defragmentation (affects HDDs - helps - keeps performance)
• Forces system file regroupement on the drive so that all data is next to each other, and not scattered all over the place (affects HDDs - keeps performance)
• Rewrite data freshly on TLC SSDs (TLC (and I assume worse so with the coming up QLC SSDs) has an issue where data written on it since a while, starts "fading" 'causing error correction to kick in when reading affecting data blocks, reducing drive performance. These drives, today, tend to have the firmware to detect these and re-write the data before the data is loss and help keep performance up.
• Simplify debugging as you know the environment that the user has, and not try all possibilities based on which update was installed or not. (Same for cumulative update releases)

Linux based OSs, common issue is conflicts which the OS / packaging system doesn't know how to deal with. It often times requires users to have a good knowledge of its programs and Linux based OS to deal with it. This is a recurring problem where you see often on Linux forums where people don't know how to deal with conflicts and asks for assistance.

 

Quote

(One more advantage of linux is the fact that you can have a local update mirror. You can leave it to sync when you dont use the internet[almost any NAS will do if it has rsync installed] then you can update from it very fast whenever its convenient for you.)

Useful in the days of 56K internet.. not so much in always connected devices of today.

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I have a simple solution. Point the downloads folder to a capped VHD.

Oh I am the worst with my downloads folder. It was like 30gb last time. That’s a good idea 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Oh I am the worst with my downloads folder. It was like 30gb last time. That’s a good idea 

I got that idea playing around with Ubuntu and Android x86 in HyperV arpund 2 years ago.

[GoodBytes]

6 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Oh I am the worst with my downloads folder. It was like 30gb last time. That’s a good idea 

You can have Windows 10 do a clean up automatically.

Settings > System > Storage > Configure Storage Sense

You can say all files that is older than 1 day (15 days, 30 days, 60 days, etc) in the Download folder to be deleted.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You can have Windows 10 do a clean up automatically.

Settings > System > Storage > Configure Storage Sense

You can say all files that is older than 1 day (15 days, 30 days, 60 days, etc) in the Download folder to be deleted.

Then if people complain that all their downloads suddenly go away and they need to cover their work. Drakes method is better because it enforces the need to learn and manage storage, without losing data. If they run out, it will say they need to remove some files before they can download, other system services will be unaffected.

 

I think it’s one of those things that is simple to setup and you just don’t think of it at the time.