Anyone watching the Mark Zuckerberg stuff?

[AngryBeaver]

I mean lets be honest here, a lot of these senators and representatives just don't get it. I have seen people who are suppose to know the law and rights of the people make some very erroneous statements.

 

Apparently, they feel they need the government to now include laws to give it power on regulating and governing large private companies like facebook. They have made a comparison between the personal information issues and espionage. So since this one in particular got me pissed I want to point out a major difference. In espionage the information is stolen without consent, knowledge, or a choice in the matter. However, all of this information involved in the facebook situation was completely offered. You cannot upload information or pictures about your self to a public/social platform and have any expectation of privacy.

 

The government also doesn't need or have the power to tell a company how it should run. It doesn't have the right to tell them how to run their own privacy policies. On top of that the biggest issue is because of a rogue app developer that caused most of these issues... however, I don't see them going after the source of that problem.

 

Facebook isn't going anywhere. They are a big company that is learning as they go. No information that is actually damning to someone has been leaked. This isn't like a data breach where SSN, CC #s, or the like have been leaked. So I think this is just another case of our government trying to overstep their bounds.

[Theguywhobea]

Yeah I also thought this was weird. Has any law or regulation been put in place stating whether or not any one has a reasonable expectation of privacy on the internet? Since the Internet is mostly a public forum, I'd consider it part of the public domain, where you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

 

It seems really weird for the government to be so involved with user data at a private company. Facebook is rather ubiquitous but no one is forced to use Facebook and upload pictures or private information.

 

Where is the FCC in  all this? They are the ones championing the government getting out of regulating the Internet, so why is this hearing going on?

 

I get that personal data getting into the wrong hands is an inherently bad thing, and I'm sure there are laws in place that govern how private companies should handle customer data, but a public hearing with the CEO (is he even the CEO anymore?) seems out of place.

[johnukguy]

In fact much of the information obtained was either done so dishonestly or was stolen, as access was given to friends of people who used the shitty app but did not themselves consent. Also, privacy is a right, especially under EU law and therefore much of this was illegal. There is no right, regardless of terms of use, to supply information to other parties, who then used it to essentially fabricate users or hijack identities in order to achieve purposes to which the original parties had given no consent. Of course large corporations should be regulated. They are not people, have no ethics and are far too powerful, especially in the US where they run the government.

[captain_to_fire]

4 minutes ago, Theguywhobea said:

Yeah I also thought this was weird. Has any law or regulation been put in place stating whether or not any one has a reasonable expectation of privacy on the internet?

There’s one coming.

Mark Zuckerberg got lucky that the controversy didn’t happen on May 25th. 

[Sauron]

16 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

However, all of this information involved in the facebook situation was completely offered. You cannot upload information or pictures about your self to a public/social platform and have any expectation of privacy.

While this is true, you can't legally murder someone because they ask you to. People are stupid, that doesn't mean Facebook has a right to exploit them and sell that data to shady third parties for profit.

[Radium_Angel]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

While this is true, you can't legally murder someone because they ask you to. People are stupid, that doesn't mean Facebook has a right to exploit them and sell that data to shady third parties for profit.

If the product is free (FB in this case) then you are the product.

Does anyone not wonder why they can use it freely and at the same time that FB is worth billions?

They gotta get that money from somewhere....

 

Using FB with their ToS is sheer lunacy. And anyone with half a brain should stay far away from it

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

If the product is free (FB in this case) then you are the product.

Unless it's FOSS.

[AngryBeaver]

16 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

In fact much of the information obtained was either done so dishonestly or was stolen, as access was given to friends of people who used the shitty app but did not themselves consent. Also, privacy is a right, especially under EU law and therefore much of this was illegal. There is no right, regardless of terms of use, to supply information to other parties, who then used it to essentially fabricate users or hijack identities in order to achieve purposes to which the original parties had given no consent. Of course large corporations should be regulated. They are not people, have no ethics and are far too powerful, especially in the US where they run the government.

You do not have a "RIght" to privacy outside of PII that is sensitive in nature. The EU makes a big stink about it, but even their laws don't offer much protection and even with what happened facebook is still compliant to EU law.

 

You do know the more power you hand to the government the less rights you have. A government that becomes too powerful is a very bad thing.

10 minutes ago, Sauron said:

While this is true, you can't legally murder someone because they ask you to. People are stupid, that doesn't mean Facebook has a right to exploit them and sell that data to shady third parties for profit.

Really? Murder is against the law. There is no law regulating this type of thing and honestly there shouldn't be. Private companies can make their own decision when it comes to these things and consumers can choose to not use those companies services. I mean people being stupid is not an excuse. If I offer you a contract and you sign it without reading then it isn't my fault when I take your house.

 

Also pretty much everything you use these days sell your information, be it contact information for marketing, or analytical information so they can predict what customers want or their usage behavior. This is happening everywhere and it is also why companies like facebook are FREE to use.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Really? Murder is against the law. There is no law regulating this type of thing and honestly there shouldn't be.

That's what the senators are trying to decide, is it not?

3 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Private companies can make their own decision when it comes to these things and consumers can choose to not use those companies services. I mean people being stupid is not an excuse. If I offer you a contract and you sign it without reading then it isn't my fault when I take your house.

What about scams? By your reasoning, the consumer can just "not fall for them" and everything will be fine, right?

4 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also pretty much everything you use these days sell your information, be it contact information for marketing, or analytical information so they can predict what customers want or their usage behavior. This is happening everywhere and it is also why companies like facebook are FREE to use.

Does that mean we should like it?

[knightslugger]

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

What about scams?

Scams by nature are fraudulent... so there's that.

[AngryBeaver]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

That's what the senators are trying to decide, is it not?

Yes they are trying to get even more power over the people and private entities. That is a big problem for the US people.The government doesn't get to stick their nose into everything despite what they THINK they might need to do. This is just more government corruption and power grabbing at its finest.

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

What about scams? By your reasoning, the consumer can just "not fall for them" and everything will be fine, right?

Scams are also a problem with the consumer. They however, are completely in a different area than what we are discussing. Facebook did not SCAM anyone, nor have they do anything illegal. Immoral maybe, but not illegal.

 

4 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Does that mean we should like it?

That is a question someone needs to ask themselves. If you don't like it then don't use any company that shares you information. Don't use credit cards, ISP's, phones, etc. Find a job that doesn't share any of your information and then pay cash for everything. It is possible to do, just unlikely. This is the information age so everything involved information is of value. This is just the way of the world now, you can't change it.

[johnukguy]

23 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

You do not have a "RIght" to privacy outside of PII that is sensitive in nature. The EU makes a big stink about it, but even their laws don't offer much protection and even with what happened facebook is still compliant to EU law.

 

 

In fact you do indeed. Feel free to look it up instead of just saying the first thing that comes into your head, when it's obvious that you have little idea what you are talking about and have done no research. Start with the GDPR (The General Data Protection Regulation) in the EU and educate yourself a little so that you at least some idea of what this is all about.

23 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

You do know the more power you hand to the government the less rights you have. A government that becomes too powerful is a very bad thing.

Which is exactly why your right to privacy and how your data is used matters. Do you really not understand this or are you just pretending to be so poorly informed?

 

23 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Really? Murder is against the law. There is no law regulating this type of thing and honestly there shouldn't be. Private companies can make their own decision when it comes to these things and consumers can choose to not use those companies services. I mean people being stupid is not an excuse. If I offer you a contract and you sign it without reading then it isn't my fault when I take your house.

 

Except, again, that you just argued that any company can put in whatever it wants in a contract, even if it's illegal and scam you. Again, do you not understand why that should not be allowed, or are you just pretending to know so little and not to understand basic issues of legality and rights?

 

23 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also pretty much everything you use these days sell your information, be it contact information for marketing, or analytical information so they can predict what customers want or their usage behavior. This is happening everywhere and it is also why companies like facebook are FREE to use.

Now this is the first thing that you've said that's true but, yet again, that doesn't mean that people should be lied to in order to get that data and that identities should be stolen in order to misuse that data. Do you also honestly not know that the company that did this acted highly illegally, blackmailing people, using stolen identities to post white supremacist propaganda, lying to users....? Or are you fine with some company that has already acted illegally, then stealing your data, pretending to be you and posting neo Nazi propaganda in your name?
 

 

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, AngryBeaver said:

Yes they are trying to get even more power over the people and private entities. That is a big problem for the US people.The government doesn't get to stick their nose into everything despite what they THINK they might need to do. This is just more government corruption and power grabbing at its finest.

That sounds as awful lot like a political opinion and I won't offer mine because it would be against the CoC.

1 minute ago, AngryBeaver said:

Scams are also a problem with the consumer. They however, are completely in a different area than what we are discussing. Facebook did not SCAM anyone, nor have they do anything illegal. Immoral maybe, but not illegal.

So, let's run it down;

 

a scam takes advantage of gullible customers - check

a scam advertises something that seems too good to be free or cheap - check

a scam lies about what it does - check

a scam is investigated by the government - check

 

And once again you're basing what should or shouldn't be allowed exclusively on existing law, which is a fallacy when we're discussing... new laws...

6 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

That is a question someone needs to ask themselves. If you don't like it then don't use any company that shares you information. Don't use credit cards, ISP's, phones, etc. Find a job that doesn't share any of your information and then pay cash for everything. It is possible to do, just unlikely. This is the information age so everything involved information is of value. This is just the way of the world now, you can't change it.

Or maybe demand that companies you NEED to use to live in the modern world don't treat you like live stock.

[MikeSK]

I thought the main purpose of this hunt is to see if Face Book contributed to Trump's winning the election.  Anything involving Trump has social micro personal interventionists deeply concerned and driving them to extremes.  The US Federal System is broken.  

 

On 4/11/2018 at 11:30 AM, Sauron said:

Or maybe demand that companies you NEED to use to live in the modern world don't treat you like live stock.

There is a disconnect between Corporations and Reality.  Corporations are for a large part concerned with capitalization and not delivering quality of services, jobs and life.  I think of Corporations as micro governments trying to win the war for capital and fame. 

[AngryBeaver]

5 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

In fact you do indeed. Feel free to look it up instead of just saying the first thing that comes into your head, when it's obvious that you have little idea what you are talking about and have done no research. Start with the GDPR in the EU and educate yourself a little so that you don't embarrass yourself like this again.

Well the GDPR doesn't even go into effect until NEXT month. Also the penalty for breaching it is going to be much less than the amount of be gained annually for companies that deal in personal data. Now that being said facebook has still not broken any laws here. All they need to do for compliance are clean up their wording to make it more understandable (which they are/have done), give people the ability to download all the information they have about themselves on there (already can be done) and to request the information all be removed (all ready can be done). So I HAVE done some research, it is you who is obviously mistaken.

 

8 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

Which is exactly why your right to privacy and how your data is used matters. Do you really not understand this or are you just pretending to be so poorly informed?

For the record you DO have a right to privacy when it concerns the GOVERNMENT. That same protection does not extend to private entities and that is for numerous, valid, and very good reasons.

 

9 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

Except, again, that you just argued that any company can put in whatever it wants in a contract, even if it's illegal and scam you. Again, do you not understand why that should not be allowed, or are you just pretending to know so little and not to understand basic issues of legality and rights?

Where did I say any of that? A contract isn't legally binding if it is in fact illegal. Also what facebook has done is NOT illegal. You can keep spouting that all your want, but they are conforming to even the NEW GDPR, which isn't even in effect for another MONTH.

[johnukguy]

Just now, AngryBeaver said:

Well the GDPR doesn't even go into effect until NEXT month. Also the penalty for breaching it is going to be much less than the amount of be gained annually for companies that deal in personal data. Now that being said facebook has still not broken any laws here.

Except, yet again, yes they have. Do you really not know that it's not legal to allow a company on your platform to mislead people as to what their data will be used for and to allow that company to steal people's identities? 

 

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

For the record you DO have a right to privacy when it concerns the GOVERNMENT. That same protection does not extend to private entities and that is for numerous, valid, and very good reasons.

Yet again (please start doing some basic research, this level of ignorance is embarrassing), yes you do have a right of privacy with private companies. Despite your seeming to be entirely ignorant of the fact, it is a fact that corporations do not have the right to abuse your privacy, misuse your data and steal your identity. Why do you not know these very basic facts?

[AngryBeaver]

22 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

Except, yet again, yes they have. Do you really not know that it's not legal to allow a company on your platform to mislead people as to what their data will be used for and to allow that company to steal people's identities? 

 

Yet again (please start doing some basic research, this level of ignorance is embarrassing), yes you do have a right of privacy with private companies. Despite your seeming to be entirely ignorant of the fact, it is a fact that corporations do not have the right to abuse your privacy, misuse your data and steal your identity. Why do you not know these very basic facts?

It wasn't facebook that stole information. That was done by an app developer. Also posting stuff posing as someone else when it comes to just facebook isn't exactly stealing an identity. Stealing an identity is linked more to the financial and protected PII. 

 

That right of privacy is there, but it pertains to PII. It involves things like SSN, CCN, financing information, protected client privileged information, medical records, etc...

 

When you use facebook for example you agree to their terms. You also choose what information you are sharing with them. I have full control over what others can find on facebook about me. If I choose to add my name, photos, birth date, address, etc... then I cannot expect that information to be private. The same goes for here. If my user name was my real name for example and I had a ton of information about me on my linus profile, then I cannot expect that information to be private. Same for this post.

 

 

So lets go in to what the actual laws in the USA actually protect you from.

 

"Although the Constitution does not explicitly include the right to privacy, the Supreme Court has found that the Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy against governmental intrusion from the First Amendment, Third Amendment, Fourth Amendment, and the Fifth Amendment."

 

Protection against the government. NOT private parties.

 

 

Most states of the United States also grant a right to privacy and recognize four torts based on that right:

1. Intrusion upon seclusion or solitude, or into private affairs;
2. Public disclosure of embarrassing private facts;
3. Publicity which places a person in a false light in the public eye; and
4. Appropriation of name or likeness.

Also has nothing to do with anything related to facebook. The appropriation would be applicable to the developer who used information in the way you mentioned earlier, but that is a violation by HIM and not that of facebook.

 

 

The EU laws do offer more protection, but until next month facebook is still following EU law.

 

They currently have 1 area they will be in breach if not in place by May, but according to what I have already heard they have the system in place and in testing now. Which is a walkthrough of what all settings do in facebook that lets you control to a degree what others can see. They have also made it so apps cannot scrape information about friends. Then you are told in nice plain easy to understand text what can or will be done with the information you share. As long as they are not misrepresenting that information then they are not in violation.

 

And lastly the GDPR is a joke. It states that continued breach will result in a penalty of 4% of annual profits or a 20 million fine. To a company that is selling personal information for profit this would likely be a drop in the bucket.

[MikeSK]

After you purchased your very own car, you take it to a mechanic for modification with new RGB.  The mechanic takes the car after signing a contract and runs over people in a sidewalk.  The police show up at your door and arrest you.   Now, the government wants to regulate your poor choice in mechanics.

[AngryBeaver]

4 minutes ago, MikeSK said:

After you purchased your very own car, you take it to a mechanic for modification with new RGB.  The mechanic takes the car after signing a contract and runs over people in a sidewalk.  The police show up at your door and arrest you.   Now, the government wants to regulate your poor choice in mechanics.

Exactly, this was just ammunition for the USA government to gain some power. Facebook didn't do anything wrong here, but the misuse of information from a developer gave the government a way to put facebook in the limelight and make it look like a threat. Now they will try to scare your average citizen into thinking we need regulation for something that shouldn't be regulated. The government doesn't need more power into private sectors.

[Canada EH]

One clip as passing CNN - Amazinglingly Suckerbeg is collecting data on NON USERS of Faceplant and for users, well Faceplant has 150,000 data points on you!

[Canada EH]

The fines for them is so miniscule its ridiculous thats its pathetic. Some countries give fines based on income which is appropriate.

 

OK where did the last post go, maybe I read a post midway and thought it was the last one.

[Crunchy Dragon]

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[Radium_Angel]

I want each and every one of you here in this thread, and users of facebook, to remember this quote:

 

"Give me 12 lines written by the most honest of men, and I shall find something within to hang them."

 

 

 

How many lines have *you* written on FB, or twitter, or any other social media?

You might not think you have anything to hide, but you are not the one on a witch hunt....

[Mooshi]

Too distracted by the booster seat lmao

 

[Canada EH]

he is a small man at 5'7"

perhaps he wears shoes with a 1"+ sole on them, I laugh when I see people wear those, heck they even wear sandals with 1"+ soles.