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The first headphones with a built in iPhone charger adapter appears.

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What I don’t get is why they didn’t just go with a 90 degree connector that allowed you to plug-in the charging cable as per normal, instead of the second wire coming out of the backside of the connector.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
29 minutes ago, Ertman said:

What I don’t get is why they didn’t just go with a 90 degree connector that allowed you to plug-in the charging cable as per normal, instead of the second wire coming out of the backside of the connector.

That would have required thought.

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12 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Never the less, removing the headphone jack does not improve anything about the iPhone experience that they couldn't have otherwise done with a different engineering solution.

The same argument could be made about flash. Why block flash on iOS? Why not allow HTML 5 to compete alongside Flash and let the competition sort itself out? 

 

Because Apple had a vested interest in seeing HTML5 (an open standard) prevail over flash (a proprietary platform which they did not control), they went out of their way to favour one standard over the other. This was of course a risky gamble, given its minority market share, but it paid off in the end. Flash floundered from lack of support, HTML 5 got the break it needed, and the rest as we know is history. 

 

It's more about shaping the battlefield into one which plays to your strengths while also being less advantageous to the competition. To be honest, I have no idea why android phone companies are falling over themselves to remove the headphone jack, considering that they lack a complementary wireless headphone offering, or some form of lock-in to ensure their user base continues to buy their products regardless of whatever shortcomings it may have. Strikes me as a case of "Monkey see, monkey do, but monkey has no idea what it is doing or why."

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On 2/16/2018 at 5:37 PM, iamdarkyoshi said:

Why not make a phone with two type C ports, or in the case of the iphone, 2 lightning ports?

Do you have any idea how big those connectors are on the logic board of phones compared to everything else these days?


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Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Do you have any idea how big those connectors are on the logic board of phones compared to everything else these days?

Not very large, I've had my phone apart to hardwire a wireless charging pad into it. The dual cameras take up more space than the type C jack, not to mention that this phone has a 5,000mAh battery

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Seems like a dumb product but I don’t care either way. 

 

My 6s Plus is still more solid than a lot of phones out there and I don’t have to worry about not having a 3.5mm jack yet. 

 

When I upgrade I’ll probably make the move to AirPods (unless someone else can make headphones that don’t make my ears hurt) or just keep the lighting headphones you get in box.......

 

looking at you Samsung and Google.......

 

At home I’ll probably just listen to music on my ATH-M50Xs still and use the dongle. It’s really not that big of a deal unless you have a large wired headphone collection and want something to complain about. 


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2 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Not very large, I've had my phone apart to hardwire a wireless charging pad into it. The dual cameras take up more space than the type C jack, not to mention that this phone has a 5,000mAh battery

Dual ports takes up more space than one no matter how you slice it. 

 

Regarless of the reason Apple decided to get rid of the headphone jack, other market leaders followed ant tbh, it’s probably not a bad thing. 

 

It’s not like smartphones have good DACs in them anyway unless your phone is a DAC oriented phone. 


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5 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Dual ports takes up more space than one no matter how you slice it. 

 

Regarless of the reason Apple decided to get rid of the headphone jack, other market leaders followed ant tbh, it’s probably not a bad thing. 

 

It’s not like smartphones have good DACs in them anyway unless your phone is a DAC oriented phone. 

It is a bad idea for copyright/patent reasons. It opens a huge can of worms with compatibility between the different Bluetooth standards and USB-C standards. Apple makes it look easy because they're too big to fail and everyone is willing to accept the baggage of Apple's proprietary lightning port and wireless standards. 

 

Non-Apple companies are suffering the most from this trend because they have to shuffle with different USB-C technologies that may or may not work between different devices. And it's the same story with wireless technologies. 

 

The audio jack was just a miraculous thing for being so cheap and universal. Nothing will ever be as cheap and universal moving forward. 

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10 hours ago, abazigal said:

The same argument could be made about flash. Why block flash on iOS? Why not allow HTML 5 to compete alongside Flash and let the competition sort itself out? 

 

Because Apple had a vested interest in seeing HTML5 (an open standard) prevail over flash (a proprietary platform which they did not control), they went out of their way to favour one standard over the other. This was of course a risky gamble, given its minority market share, but it paid off in the end. Flash floundered from lack of support, HTML 5 got the break it needed, and the rest as we know is history. 

 

It's more about shaping the battlefield into one which plays to your strengths while also being less advantageous to the competition. To be honest, I have no idea why android phone companies are falling over themselves to remove the headphone jack, considering that they lack a complementary wireless headphone offering, or some form of lock-in to ensure their user base continues to buy their products regardless of whatever shortcomings it may have. Strikes me as a case of "Monkey see, monkey do, but monkey has no idea what it is doing or why."

Here's where your argument falls apart:

 

HTML5 was distinctly and obviously superior to Flash. You could accomplish essentially everything you could do with Flash, with HTML5, often easier and better too. Furthermore, to actually support Flash on an ongoing basis would cost Apple money in development time, patching, etc.

 

Flash is also a proprietary standard, as you clearly indicate.

 

That's a ridiculous comparison to 3.5mm. There's next to no cost to Apple to include 3.5mm - there's no ongoing costs, because anything software side development required for "onboard analogue" audio would still be there, because the smartphone still has a DAC, and internal speakers, etc.

 

My point above remains unchallenged. Removing the headphone jack does not improve the experience on the iPhone. And Wireless has some very pointed drawbacks that make 3.5mm superior in multiple (but not all) ways.


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10 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

HTML5 was distinctly and obviously superior to Flash. You could accomplish essentially everything you could do with Flash, with HTML5, often easier and better too. Furthermore, to actually support Flash on an ongoing basis would cost Apple money in development time, patching, etc.

My point exactly. 

 

Apple opted to support HTML5 over flash because it was in their vested interests to do so then. And it wasn't so clear-cut as to say that one was better over the other. There were certainly tons of complaints and pushback against this move. Samsung even ran an ad mocking Apple over this. Many people were inconvenienced by not being able to run flash on their iPads. I was personally one of them, because as a teacher, there were websites sporting math games coded in flash that I couldn't render in Safari. 

 

It's only today that we can look back with with 20/20 hindsight and conclude that Apple made the right call and bet on the right horses back then. That whatever inconveniences we users had to put up with back then had all been worth it. And let's be honest - how many of you here were amongst those criticising Apple for doing so back then and genuinely thought they had made the wrong call there and then? 

 

Just as Apple is pushing for wireless over the headphone jack because it is in their vested interests to do so now. Apple believes in a wireless future, and the most expedient way of pushing users to wireless headphones is to disincentivise them from using wired headphones. That's what makes Apple so awesome in my book (and so irritating to others) - that they march to their own beat and don't care two hoots about what the rest think. And neither side is wrong! That's the best part!

 

Does it suck? Yes. For me, this means that I am, amongst other things, unable to run presentations with embedded videos using powerpoint or keynote on my iPhone and control it using my watch, as there is no longer an audio jack I can plug in for sound output. But it's such a tiny blemish in the greater scheme of things and I believe that it will all be worth it in the end. 

 

Knowing Apple, what it takes away from me as a user, it will find a way to pay me back. Apple clearly has a plan for what will succeed the headphone jack. Question is - does the rest of the industry outside of the Apple ecosystem have one? 

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14 hours ago, kokakolia said:

It is a bad idea for copyright/patent reasons. It opens a huge can of worms with compatibility between the different Bluetooth standards and USB-C standards. Apple makes it look easy because they're too big to fail and everyone is willing to accept the baggage of Apple's proprietary lightning port and wireless standards. 

 

Non-Apple companies are suffering the most from this trend because they have to shuffle with different USB-C technologies that may or may not work between different devices. And it's the same story with wireless technologies. 

 

The audio jack was just a miraculous thing for being so cheap and universal. Nothing will ever be as cheap and universal moving forward. 

Bluetooth headphones have gotten quite cheap in their own right. While we probably won't see disposable $1 bluetooth earbuds anytime soon, $10 is an accessible price to anyone that has actually bought an iPhone. 

 

Tbh, the biggest issue is using/repurposing the phone as a media player (perhals attached to a car radio or home reciever) when the battery is old and kaput. When new, this isn't a big deal. When the battery will no longer hold a charge however, it will be difficult to keep it powered and playing music without some extra dongle. Bluetooth is a bit of a rarity in older cars.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
18 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Do you have any idea how big those connectors are on the logic board of phones compared to everything else these days?

5a8a42d782550_UVTojGFlOhgjhnhgvnhbvnWjvqKGX(1)-Recovered.thumb.jpg.e83cfd290276a1e3f928e04371dea4a5.jpg

 

A USB type C port is a bit smaller then a headphone jack in terms of footprint. 

The camera is larger, and the SD/SIM card reader completely dwarfs it.

It wouldn't be the end of the world to make space for an extra USB port, even if it means a slightly bigger phone.

Although, if you remove the headphone jack, you wouldn't need extra space.

10 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

HTML5 was distinctly and obviously superior to Flash. You could accomplish essentially everything you could do with Flash, with HTML5, often easier and better too. Furthermore, to actually support Flash on an ongoing basis would cost Apple money in development time, patching, etc.

 

Flash is also a proprietary standard, as you clearly indicate.

 

That's a ridiculous comparison to 3.5mm. There's next to no cost to Apple to include 3.5mm - there's no ongoing costs, because anything software side development required for "onboard analogue" audio would still be there, because the smartphone still has a DAC, and internal speakers, etc.

Fun fact, I can, to this day, run flash on my Android phone.

Third party browsers with third party extensions is pretty neat.

7 hours ago, Nup said:

Nice post Cinnabar. 

Shame this has to exist. But a good thing that it does, I guess. 

Thanks.

Agreed, but I think it could have been done more elegantly at least.

1 hour ago, Maticks said:

Would it be a crazy idea to get rid of the usb c port and charge through the headphone 3.5mm :P

Yes, it would be crazy.  :P

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13 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

That's a ridiculous comparison to 3.5mm. There's next to no cost to Apple to include 3.5mm - there's no ongoing costs, because anything software side development required for "onboard analogue" audio would still be there, because the smartphone still has a DAC, and internal speakers, etc.

 

My point above remains unchallenged. Removing the headphone jack does not improve the experience on the iPhone. And Wireless has some very pointed drawbacks that make 3.5mm superior in multiple (but not all) ways.

Doesn't really take anything away from the experience on an iPhone either imo. I havent really thought about it much at all since I got my 7. Was a bit annoying that my big headphones didn't work, but then I don't really take them everywhere I go either. The included AirPods are pretty good quality for everyday listening or running music etc. I don't really watch movies or anything that really warrants nice earphones on my phone since a fair while ago as well. Not everyone is me though but it just hasn't affected me that much at all.

Bluetooth with LDAC actually sounds pretty sick as well. Really nice from the new Sony speakers that have come out over the year. I wouldn't say 3.5mm isn't superior anymore, more like an option, especially with AirPlay working over wifi (Going to work on getting that setup in my car soon. . . OEM head units suck !!). Its pretty much just preference and cost to the user for wireless technology, but seeing as you are buying an iPhone anyway . . . maybe not so much focused on cost.
 

10 hours ago, Nup said:

Nice post Cinnabar. 

Shame this has to exist. But a good thing that it does, I guess. 

It doesn't have to exist. Where is the use case for these earphones?

Also to the people saying another USB-C / Lighting would be suitable - its a phone not a tablet. Its meant to be a simple, elegant device to call up ur mates or hit up tinder. Not really for mobile computing or hardcore power users.


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On 2/16/2018 at 8:37 PM, iamdarkyoshi said:

I have a remarkable solution on my phone, its a seperate 3.5mm jack and USB C port

 

But companies want to abandon the 3.5mm jack... Why not make a phone with two type C ports, or in the case of the iphone, 2 lightning ports?

 

You'd at least be able to charge and listen without this article's absurd product!

I have a phone with just the USB type C and while I like it, I miss having a headphone jack.

 

Particularly because the only USB C to headphone jack adapter that works is the one sold by HTC, that is cheaply made and breaks easily. Somehow they've made it so that other adapters just flat out do not function, as in the phone doesn't even see that one is plugged in. I bought one on amazon that claimed to be HTC compatible, no dice.

 

Yay "smart" phones...


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On 18/02/2018 at 4:03 AM, Ertman said:

What I don’t get is why they didn’t just go with a 90 degree connector that allowed you to plug-in the charging cable as per normal, instead of the second wire coming out of the backside of the connector.

Actually, this is backwards. It should be a set of headphones that come with a charging cable that has a piggyback (though that may be more dangerous... I've not tested ;) ).

 

That way, you only have to have the "dongle" when you are charging. This way, you carry the dongle even when you are not going to charge (say when you go for a jog).

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10 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Bluetooth headphones have gotten quite cheap in their own right. While we probably won't see disposable $1 bluetooth earbuds anytime soon, $10 is an accessible price to anyone that has actually bought an iPhone. 

 

Tbh, the biggest issue is using/repurposing the phone as a media player (perhals attached to a car radio or home reciever) when the battery is old and kaput. When new, this isn't a big deal. When the battery will no longer hold a charge however, it will be difficult to keep it powered and playing music without some extra dongle. Bluetooth is a bit of a rarity in older cars.

Yeah, but these cheap Bluetooth headphones are using outdated codecs for wireless transmission. High end audio companies like V-moda are pulling their hairs out trying to find a strong Bluetooth codec that's compatible with all devices. 

 

Anyways, this article explains the problem better than I ever will:

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/1/18/16903516/headphones-wireless-analog-jack-future-ces-2018

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14 hours ago, abazigal said:

My point exactly. 

 

Apple opted to support HTML5 over flash because it was in their vested interests to do so then. And it wasn't so clear-cut as to say that one was better over the other. There were certainly tons of complaints and pushback against this move. Samsung even ran an ad mocking Apple over this. Many people were inconvenienced by not being able to run flash on their iPads. I was personally one of them, because as a teacher, there were websites sporting math games coded in flash that I couldn't render in Safari. 

 

It's only today that we can look back with with 20/20 hindsight and conclude that Apple made the right call and bet on the right horses back then. That whatever inconveniences we users had to put up with back then had all been worth it. And let's be honest - how many of you here were amongst those criticising Apple for doing so back then and genuinely thought they had made the wrong call there and then? 

 

Just as Apple is pushing for wireless over the headphone jack because it is in their vested interests to do so now. Apple believes in a wireless future, and the most expedient way of pushing users to wireless headphones is to disincentivise them from using wired headphones. That's what makes Apple so awesome in my book (and so irritating to others) - that they march to their own beat and don't care two hoots about what the rest think. And neither side is wrong! That's the best part!

 

Does it suck? Yes. For me, this means that I am, amongst other things, unable to run presentations with embedded videos using powerpoint or keynote on my iPhone and control it using my watch, as there is no longer an audio jack I can plug in for sound output. But it's such a tiny blemish in the greater scheme of things and I believe that it will all be worth it in the end. 

 

Knowing Apple, what it takes away from me as a user, it will find a way to pay me back. Apple clearly has a plan for what will succeed the headphone jack. Question is - does the rest of the industry outside of the Apple ecosystem have one? 

You're making it sound like Apple has some ultimate plan to replace the 3.5mm jack with something superior.

 

You also make it sound like the rest of the smartphone manufacturers need to replace 3.5mm with something better.

 

Both of those are flawed arguments, as in this entire thread (and every other thread where this conversation comes up), no one has been able to come up with a reason why the 3.5mm should be removed, beyond to promote wireless, which is inherently worse (aside from convenience, as we already established).

 

Having a 3.5mm jack plus whatever wireless/digital audio transmission methods (audio over USB-C, audio over Lightning, and audio over Bluetooth), is a superior setup to removing the 3.5mm jack.


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11 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Doesn't really take anything away from the experience on an iPhone either imo. I havent really thought about it much at all since I got my 7. Was a bit annoying that my big headphones didn't work, but then I don't really take them everywhere I go either. The included AirPods are pretty good quality for everyday listening or running music etc. I don't really watch movies or anything that really warrants nice earphones on my phone since a fair while ago as well. Not everyone is me though but it just hasn't affected me that much at all.

Bluetooth with LDAC actually sounds pretty sick as well. Really nice from the new Sony speakers that have come out over the year. I wouldn't say 3.5mm isn't superior anymore, more like an option, especially with AirPlay working over wifi (Going to work on getting that setup in my car soon. . . OEM head units suck !!). Its pretty much just preference and cost to the user for wireless technology, but seeing as you are buying an iPhone anyway . . . maybe not so much focused on cost.
 

It doesn't have to exist. Where is the use case for these earphones?

Also to the people saying another USB-C / Lighting would be suitable - its a phone not a tablet. Its meant to be a simple, elegant device to call up ur mates or hit up tinder. Not really for mobile computing or hardcore power users.

Hold on a sec - we need to clarify something.

 

The cheap included earbuds with iPhones are called "EarPods".

 

"AirPods" are the $200 wireless earbuds.

 

Very different, and the AirPods, by review account, actually sound decent.

 

Furthermore, my Earbuds are Beyerdynamic MMX100's, which were (when new) $150 earbuds. My regular headphones were until recently, Sennheiser HD 598's, and they were replaced with Sennheiser HD 6xx's.

 

So no, the included EarPods, are not "good enough". I haven't even opened the package for mine, because why would I, when I already have superior audio devices?

 

And you're kind of proving the point of what Apple is after - being "good enough". Sure, losing 3.5mm and using the crappy included EarPods is "good enough" for most people. And sure most Bluetooth earbuds, etc, are "good enough".

 

But "good enough" does not mean "better than the 3.5mm we're removing".

 

So long as we acknowledge that fact.


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16 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Hold on a sec - we need to clarify something.

 

The cheap included earbuds with iPhones are called "EarPods".

 

"AirPods" are the $200 wireless earbuds.

 

Very different, and the AirPods, by review account, actually sound decent.

 

Furthermore, my Earbuds are Beyerdynamic MMX100's, which were (when new) $150 earbuds. My regular headphones were until recently, Sennheiser HD 598's, and they were replaced with Sennheiser HD 6xx's.

 

So no, the included EarPods, are not "good enough". I haven't even opened the package for mine, because why would I, when I already have superior audio devices?

 

And you're kind of proving the point of what Apple is after - being "good enough". Sure, losing 3.5mm and using the crappy included EarPods is "good enough" for most people. And sure most Bluetooth earbuds, etc, are "good enough".

 

But "good enough" does not mean "better than the 3.5mm we're removing".

 

So long as we acknowledge that fact.

Unfortunately it is a homonym with my accent so I get a bit confused.

Comparing expensive earbuds however to bundled earpods is a bit silly however, of course its worse. The market is still probably adjusting, so I do agree 3.5" is better for now if you are into expensive earphones. More so now bluetooth is mostly for sports audio, not really for high end at the moment.

 

Bluetooth with LDAC is great technology and sounds just as good as 3.5". I would still say for the general use case that bluetooth is now a side-grade, but yes, for higher end equipment, unless it comes with LDAC, 3.5" is better.
 


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3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Hold on a sec - we need to clarify something.

 

The cheap included earbuds with iPhones are called "EarPods".

 

"AirPods" are the $200 wireless earbuds.

 

Very different, and the AirPods, by review account, actually sound decent.

 

Furthermore, my Earbuds are Beyerdynamic MMX100's, which were (when new) $150 earbuds. My regular headphones were until recently, Sennheiser HD 598's, and they were replaced with Sennheiser HD 6xx's.

 

So no, the included EarPods, are not "good enough". I haven't even opened the package for mine, because why would I, when I already have superior audio devices?

 

And you're kind of proving the point of what Apple is after - being "good enough". Sure, losing 3.5mm and using the crappy included EarPods is "good enough" for most people. And sure most Bluetooth earbuds, etc, are "good enough".

 

But "good enough" does not mean "better than the 3.5mm we're removing".

 

So long as we acknowledge that fact.

There's another underlying issue that's a huge pain in the butt: the lightning connection itself. The Apple earpods simply won't last because having a square connection that can't move around as freely as a round 3.5mm jack puts a lot of strain on the wire. So no, most people will be annoyed that they have to replace their pricey earphones frequently. 

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1 minute ago, kokakolia said:

There's another underlying issue that's a huge pain in the butt: the lightning connection itself. The Apple earpods simply won't last because having a square connection that can't move around as freely as a round 3.5mm jack puts a lot of strain on the wire. So no, most people will be annoyed that they have to replace their pricey earphones frequently. 

Indeed, a non-swiveling connector is a factor I'm sure many people don't consider.


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what if they put a 3.5 on the top and a port of there choosing on the bottom, I'm looking at you apple lol. but idk I'm thinking of moving to the pixel 2 or 3 ( when it comes out ) and I guess I would be fine with wireless headphones, anyway I already like wireless pc headset due to be able to walk around with out yanking my headset out of the computer or pulling the computer with me lol.


I am scared of normal people, I like RGB. anime is luv anime is life ( so is  @Ashiella lol). I right now go to school

For a reply please quote or  @Eduard the weeb me :D

 

I would say I have been a gamer all my life but I don't have one lol

 

to breakout the slammer you need a sledge hammer

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