Value Held Over Time - PC vs Mac

[TurbulentWinds]

I was recently looking at a post where someone asked how much their iMac would sell for. Because it was from 2009, I did not think it would go for over $100. To my surprise, when I checked eBay, the 2009 iMac was going for about $500. This promoted me to spend way too much time researching the value that Macs hold over time and comparing it to PCs. I assumed the needs of an average home user who wants a premium thin and light experience. I used the MacBook Air and XPS 13 for this comparison.

 

Here are the values I found for the MacBook and XPS 13:

 

Year:

Model - Launch Price - Used Price in 2017 - Specs

 

2017:

MacBook Air - $1000 - $750 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - NA - 1080p, 128GB SSD, 7th Gen i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2016:

XPS 13 - $1000 - $700 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, 7th Gen i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2015:

MacBook Air - $1000 - $600 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - $450 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2014:

MacBook Air - $1000 - $450 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - $250 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2013:

MacBook Air - $1100 - $400 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - $200 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2012:

MacBook Air - $1200 - $350 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1100 - $200 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2011

MacBook Air - $1300 - $300 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.7GHz i5, 4GB DDR3 @ 1333 MHz

 

2010:

MacBook Air - $1300 - $200 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.7GHz i5, 4GB DDR3 @ 1333 MHz

 

2009:

MacBook Air - $1800 - 800p Display, 120GB 4200 rpm HDD, 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB DDR3 SDRAM @ 1066 MHz, Geforce 9400M w/ 256MB shared SDRAM

 

Based off of the used pricing you have seen, you should have realized a general trend of Macs retaining more value. Now, let's plot the percent of value held vs the model year.

 

The MacBook Air follows a more linear decay while the XPS 13 shows a clear pattern of exponential decay. From my personal experience, most average computer users who own premium devices, go on a 3-5 year upgrade cycle. This is exactly when the PCs value drops suddenly. My theory is that the value dip is due to people saturating the market with used devices that are not purchased. People prefer the new experience. Therefore, people will go with new computer. With Windows devices, there is a low end that replaces the used market for aging premium devices. However, on the Mac side of things, there is no "low end." Therefore, people will purchase used Mac devices for the Apple ecosystem. This allows the Mac devices to retain more value over time on average. I would love to see someone look at this in terms of price to performance, factoring in the retention of the Macs value.

 

Yes. I know that the Windows devices are a bit more speced up than the Macs. However, platform optimization is a real thing. There is a reason we game on Windows and not Linux (most people anyway).

 

I would love to go deeper into this rabbit hole. If I get enough positive feedback on this, I will certainly try to look further into this subject (I already have, just don't wanna type).

 

Please correct any mistakes I have made.

 

Thanks!

 

The rabbit hole:

 

[RotoCoreOne]

Macs have always held their value pretty well compared to pcs. I think this is because of the os rather than the hardware.

[TurbulentWinds]

12 minutes ago, RotoCoreOne said:

Macs have always held their value pretty well compared to pcs. I think this is because of the os rather than the hardware.

Defiantly what I think too!

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

18 minutes ago, RotoCoreOne said:

Macs have always held their value pretty well compared to pcs. I think this is because of the os rather than the hardware.

Macs also hold their value because people overvalue the bloody things. I once found a 2008 white MacBook with heavy cosmetic damage (bits of the case were missing) for $150. Those things can't even run 10.9 which is what I would consider to be the minimum for a daily use mac and that example was absolutely disgusting. The keyboard was yellow for god sakes. 

[Nicnac]

Very interesting!

I have been using my mbp for 5 years now and it was really slowing down to the point I thought about finally replacing it but then apple somehow managed to give it more performance and quicker load times with osx sierra. So it still runs perfectly and I hope it will last me well into the future  

On the other hand there are interesting times ahead with the new ryzen mobile processors coming out and that intel+amd collab mobie chip. Definitely gonna follow those news.

[Ertman]

5 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Macs also hold their value because people overvalue the bloody things. I once found a 2008 white MacBook with heavy cosmetic damage (bits of the case were missing) for $150. Those things can't even run 10.9 which is what I would consider to be the minimum for a daily use mac and that example was absolutely disgusting. The keyboard was yellow for god sakes. 

Did that MacBook sell for $150? Cause if it did, lucky owner. Usually those sell for parts value.

 

I do agree that some overvalue them or more so they can get a premium cause it's a mac, but generally once their OS support ends they diminish in value quickly.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

14 minutes ago, Ertman said:

Did that MacBook sell for $150? Cause if it did, lucky owner. Usually those sell for parts value.

 

I do agree that some overvalue them or more so they can get a premium cause it's a mac, but generally once their OS support ends they diminish in value quickly.

Kay, I was mistaken, it was a 2009 White Unibody selling for $125. So it does have Sierra installed. But still, it's gross, I wouldn't even want to touch that thing.

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/sys/d/2009-late-macbook-unibody/6346070294.html

[JZStudios]

I'd also go for people overvaluing them, as well as PC constantly coming out with the latest newest and greatest, and at higher capacities.

Old iPods still go for a fair chunk of change, and while I've never liked them or iTunes, they had a stranglehold on the market. People at some point go Apple and never think about anything else. My brother used to be Apple everything to the point where he didn't even own a standard micro USB cable that everything else in the world uses. He eventually got tired of the iPhone releases being the same thing every year and finally switched to Samsung/Android though.

People value these things about as much as Ferrari's, which are also impractical, overpriced, prone to breaking or bursting into flames, as well as usually just poorly designed with buttons stuck behind the seat or something. Combine the cost of those "luxuries" with the fact that while they technically release a new model every year, it's not THAT much of an improvement, and the perceived value remains mostly in tact.

 

I do however find it interesting that Apple with their "retina display" still has their resolution at 900p. They probably think it's better for your posture or something. I'm half surprised they don't just make the pictures round because it's "more appealing" and matches the round lens, then try to sell you square upgrade lenses to get standard photos.

[Guest lilbman]

This happens for mainly two reasons:

1) Software optimization.

2) People like to overvalue their Macbooks because they're Macbooks.

 

MacOS is very well optimized, I'll give it that.  

 

And for people overvaluing their Macbooks, take a look at this example (LINK).  Being valued at $389.99, you get:

 

1) 128GB SSD

2) probably dented chassis

3)Dog shit screen-has light spots on it and those things piss me off

4) 4GB of RAM

5) An 'EXTREMELY FAST' dual core i5.  It actually says that.

 

 

That processor is awful.

 

Also, someone named this thing 'Elise' which is stupid.  

 

Now why would anyone pay $389.99 for that?  Mainly because it's made by Apple, and therefore it's perceived value is higher.  I see these Macbook Airs from like 2012 and 2013 popping up with their 'extremely fast' i5s and their dog shit screens being priced at anywhere from $300 to $500.  Like look at this POS-(LINK)-dented up and heavily abused, 1.4Ghz i5, 256 SSD, and gets a D grade.  It is priced at $449. 

[ElZamo92]

I sold a 2012 dual core MBP for about $700 last year. I bought a NEW and FASTER MacBook Air for LESS (it was Black Friday). 

[JZStudios]

I'd also like to add that my friend gave me his old iPhone 4s when he got either the iPhone 5 or 6... At this point I only use it because it connects to my car stereo which doesn't have bluetooth.

Looking on Craigslist this turd is STILL going for $100, even after Apple pushed the iOS 8 update on it which ruined everything about it, mainly speed and battery life, with no way to change it back to a previous version.

For anyone wondering, No, I do not recommend this turd. It's awful. Fun fact, the old Samsung Galaxy S4 I also got for free has a higher resolution OLED screen that's larger than the entirety of the iPhone 4s, which apple claimed was detrimental to usability to have a large screen until they decided everyone wanted that.

[Nup]

nice post

[mynameisjuan]

Who would of new popular companies products hold more value...shocking.

 

Should show a curve of value to performance and watch as macbooks plummet. I mean people will buy a mac that is years old just because its a mac and will pay stupid prices for it.  This chart just shows more how stupid people are willing to waste money 

[TurbulentWinds]

1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

Should show a curve of value to performance and watch as macbooks plummet.

I was thinking about doing this, although generally the comments are stuff like that are:

A. Dumb. Didn't even read the OP and says I said things I didn't

B. Hateful. Refuses to admit that they are wrong while I provide numbers and charts, they give nonsensical rants

C. Annoying. Say I'm wrong and that I faked my data then refuse to show the right numbers

1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

I mean people will buy a mac that is years old just because its a mac and will pay stupid prices for it.

Honestly, if I wanted a Mac I would go used 2-3 generations back. The specs become reasonable at the used pricing. However, I see what you are saying about the new pricing and the very old stuff.

1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

This chart just shows more how stupid people are willing to waste money 

A lot of people just prefer Mac OS and are willing to pay more for it. I wouldn't call that a waste of money.

[TurbulentWinds]

5 hours ago, Nup said:

nice post

Thank you!

[Max_Settings]

People still get $500+ for those 2006 white Macbook Pros.

[daniielrp]

My experience has been similar:

 

• iMac - bought for 999 in 2009, sold for 650 in 2012
• iMac bought for 999 in 2012, sold for 550 in 2015

My current 2015 MacBook Pro, bought for 999 in 2015 is going for 500 - 750 currently on eBay, so by March next year I expect I should be able to get at least 500 for it.

 

Like others have said, I buy Macs for the OS, but also because I know I can get  at least 50% value when I want to upgrade in 3 years.

 

Compare that to my experience with Surfaces:

 

• Surface RT - bought for 450, sold after 9 months for 200
• Surface Pro 2 - bought for 975, sold for 450 after 12 months
• Surface Pro 3 - bought for 600, sold for 350 after 9 months.

As you can see, the Surfaces lost value much quicker than the Macs.

[Ertman]

On 11/15/2017 at 12:02 AM, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Kay, I was mistaken, it was a 2009 White Unibody selling for $125. So it does have Sierra installed. But still, it's gross, I wouldn't even want to touch that thing.

 

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/sys/d/2009-late-macbook-unibody/6346070294.html

I am with you on this one, but because some one is selling it for that doesn't mean they will get it. Much like those $1000 plus gaming computers with GT 210s in them.

 

It might be worth the parts to another 2009 MacBook user, but that's about it. I can't see someone paying for that to use it as a laptop. Given the damage I am surprised it even works. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

8 minutes ago, Ertman said:

I am with you on this one, but because some one is selling it for that doesn't mean they will get it. Much like those $1000 plus gaming computers with GT 210s in them.

 

It might be worth the parts to another 2009 MacBook user, but that's about it. I can't see someone paying for that to use it as a laptop. Given the damage I am surprised it even works. 

Yea I doubt it'll sell for that much. But it's the fact that someone has the cheek to set a price like that for something that's basically just scrap parts. That's how much people are overvaluing these things. If it was pristine condition, then it'll be worth that much, perhaps even more. People do collect Apple products.

[Shreyas1]

Maybe some people just like collecting old things? Some old consoles go for a lot more than what they sold for at the time now 

 

Edit: since there are many different types of windows laptops, maybe people don’t have as much of an attachment to them as they do to a mac

[sof006]

Because of that Apple logo on it lol

[SlipperyPete]

just to participate my Mac Mini from 2012 with a dual core i5 and 4gbs of ram still goes for 200-300$ locally

[Ertman]

22 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Yea I doubt it'll sell for that much. But it's the fact that someone has the cheek to set a price like that for something that's basically just scrap parts. That's how much people are overvaluing these things. If it was pristine condition, then it'll be worth that much, perhaps even more. People do collect Apple products.

Seems more like it's a speculator doing what you are saying and  thinking that people over value them.

 

there are plenty of crazily priced PC laptops, desktops and parts that people price far above market, but this doesn't mean that PC enthusiasts are over valuing, just the one guy.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 hour ago, Ertman said:

Seems more like it's a speculator doing what you are saying and  thinking that people over value them.

 

there are plenty of crazily priced PC laptops, desktops and parts that people price far above market, but this doesn't mean that PC enthusiasts are over valuing, just the one guy.

I've seen many other examples. Just listed one cause I'm not going to put any more effort in searching that. In general, it's a trend that people selling Apple products are the more egregious offenders. I've seen old Celeron ThinkPads going for 100-150, even those I would consider to be borderline.

[michaelocarroll007]

On 11/14/2017 at 5:17 PM, TurbulentWinds said:

I was recently looking at a post where someone asked how much their iMac would sell for. Because it was from 2009, I did not think it would go for over $100. To my surprise, when I checked eBay, the 2009 iMac was going for about $500. This promoted me to spend way too much time researching the value that Macs hold over time and comparing it to PCs. I assumed the needs of an average home user who wants a premium thin and light experience. I used the MacBook Air and XPS 13 for this comparison.

 

Here are the values I found for the MacBook and XPS 13:

 

Year:

Model - Launch Price - Used Price in 2017 - Specs

 

2017:

MacBook Air - $1000 - $750 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - NA - 1080p, 128GB SSD, 7th Gen i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2016:

XPS 13 - $1000 - $700 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, 7th Gen i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2015:

MacBook Air - $1000 - $600 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - $450 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2014:

MacBook Air - $1000 - $450 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - $250 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2013:

MacBook Air - $1100 - $400 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1000 - $200 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2012:

MacBook Air - $1200 - $350 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.8GHz i5, 8GB LPDDR3 @ 1600MHz

XPS 13 - $1100 - $200 - 1080p, 128GB SSD, i5, 8GB DDR3

 

2011

MacBook Air - $1300 - $300 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.7GHz i5, 4GB DDR3 @ 1333 MHz

 

2010:

MacBook Air - $1300 - $200 - 900p Display, 128GB SSD, 1.7GHz i5, 4GB DDR3 @ 1333 MHz

 

2009:

MacBook Air - $1800 - 800p Display, 120GB 4200 rpm HDD, 1.86GHz Core 2 Duo, 2GB DDR3 SDRAM @ 1066 MHz, Geforce 9400M w/ 256MB shared SDRAM

 

Based off of the used pricing you have seen, you should have realized a general trend of Macs retaining more value. Now, let's plot the percent of value held vs the model year.

 

The MacBook Air follows a more linear decay while the XPS 13 shows a clear pattern of exponential decay. From my personal experience, most average computer users who own premium devices, go on a 3-5 year upgrade cycle. This is exactly when the PCs value drops suddenly. My theory is that the value dip is due to people saturating the market with used devices that are not purchased. People prefer the new experience. Therefore, people will go with new computer. With Windows devices, there is a low end that replaces the used market for aging premium devices. However, on the Mac side of things, there is no "low end." Therefore, people will purchase used Mac devices for the Apple ecosystem. This allows the Mac devices to retain more value over time on average. I would love to see someone look at this in terms of price to performance, factoring in the retention of the Macs value.

 

Yes. I know that the Windows devices are a bit more speced up than the Macs. However, platform optimization is a real thing. There is a reason we game on Windows and not Linux (most people anyway).

 

I would love to go deeper into this rabbit hole. If I get enough positive feedback on this, I will certainly try to look further into this subject (I already have, just don't wanna type).

 

Please correct any mistakes I have made.

 

Thanks!

 

Correct me if im wrong Dont we game on windows cause Direct X is a windows exclusive now? Idk ive never seen the point of trying linux when windows works just fine personally.  i really dont find Mac os with similar specs any great deal of faster at all. 

 

Some nice research and a good theory on while Premium devices take that early dump. i Think your right on this apple doesnt have a $700 computer come out in 2018 that beats the $1500 computer they sell in 2017 so theres no reason for it to take the dive.  Same as when say Nvidia releases new GPUS the 980ti went from $600 to $350 to match the 1070