dark clouds looming in the video cards supply chain - inventory levels are up, sales are down

[Wyllio]

6 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

That's not Nvidia's fault, but the company's themselves.

Its both. But the majority of the fault still goes towards Nvidia for starting the trend, trying to make their "Founders Edition" seem more premium. Not to mention it even affected AMD and their cards no longer go for MSRP.

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Wyllio said:

Its both. But the majority of the fault still goes towards Nvidia for starting the trend, trying to make their "Founders Edition" to seem more premium. Not to mention it even affect AMD and their cards no longer go for MSRP.

I can't say anything for AMD, but the premium is about on par with previous trends for Nvidia since they raise the MSRP on new-gen tech by 50-100.

[Misanthrope]

19 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

It's the Founders Edition. If cooling performance was the deciding factor, ASUS would be justified with their $900 1080 prices on Newegg.

The FE was slated for $700 MSRP by Nvidia. The AIB's were supposed to be less costly.

Supposed to? How? Show me a statement of Nvidia ever saying that. 

 

Your statements are based on nothing. Mine are observations of what actually fucking happened. 

[Wyllio]

7 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I can't say anything for AMD, but the premium is about on par with previous trends for Nvidia since they raise the MSRP on new-gen tech by 50-100.

Not the case, GTX 770 was launched at $399 and the GTX 970 $329. Compared to the GTX 1070 $449. I do not see a trend.

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Supposed to? How? Show me a statement of Nvidia ever saying that. 

 

Your statements are based on nothing. Mine are observations of what actually fucking happened. 

Nvidia had a conference in 2015 for Pascal. LTT should have the video in the archives stating what Nvidia had said. There are plenty of publications that said the same.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/FdH48d/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-founders-edition-video-card-9001g4132500001?history_days=365

Notice the price and the launch date. $700.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bpBrxr/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-video-card-9001g4112520001?history_days=365

Notice the price and the launch date. $450.

Both where they should have been.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/v34NnQ/asus-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-rog-strix-video-card-rog-strix-gtx1080-a8g-gaming?history_days=365

The Asus Strix was one of the biggest offenders of the price hikes hitting nearly 800 on several occasions until it stabilized where it should have.

 

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1080

Even the Nvidia website lists the price as $700.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Anandtech Reported that the GTX 1080 was to have a non-FE MSRP of $600 while the GTX 1070 was to have a non-FE MSRP of $380. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review

 

Lo-and-behold there is a GTX 1070 that's near the MSRP: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/nQPzK8/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-mini-itx-oc-video-card-gv-n1070ixoc-8gd

 

Also a GTX 1080 at MSRP: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/ymrcCJ/asus-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-video-card-turbo-gtx1080-8g

[Misanthrope]

Nvidia never said the Founders Edition was the "best" one. They were very aloof as to what Founders Edition meant and the only thing they were clear about is that they didn't want to call it a "reference" design but otherwise used open ended language like "special" and such.

 

They never said this should be the highest tier of card. In fact there was a ton of controversy, videos being made by LTT and Jayz2cents on the subject precisely because Nvidia was intentionally obtuse but they were never intended to be ASIC bins or any kind of special cooler, it was just the same crappy blower cooler than before with more angles and shit.

 

Nvidia was perfectly aware of what they were fucking doing: Raising the price of reference models intentionally so all AIB cards would be more expensive since they offer better cooler. The only cards that are at or below the FE where the even worst turds like the Asus "turbo" cooler.

 

They wanted to increase the prices with the Founder's Edition and they've got their fucking wish: they went beyond what the market could bear. You reap what you sow.

[Wyllio]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Anandtech Reported that the GTX 1080 was to have a non-FE MSRP of $600 while the GTX 1070 was to have a non-FE MSRP of $380. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review

 

Lo-and-behold there is a GTX 1070 that's near the MSRP: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/nQPzK8/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-mini-itx-oc-video-card-gv-n1070ixoc-8gd

 

Also a GTX 1080 at MSRP: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/ymrcCJ/asus-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-video-card-turbo-gtx1080-8g

That is not the point. I am referencing the same cooler design between generations that end costing $50-100 more because Nvidia introduced the FE pricing. An example would be the MSI Twin Frozr models I said in a post before. You can't compare a dual fan and 6 heat pipe cooling solution to an inadequate plastic blower. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 minutes ago, Wyllio said:

That is not the point. I am referencing the same cooler design between generations that end costing $50-100 more because Nvidia introduced the FE pricing. An example would be the MSI Twin Frozr models I said in a post before. You can't compare a dual fan and 6 heat pipe cooling solution to an inadequate plastic blower. 

I bought the EVGA GTX 1080 SC ACX 3.0 for $650. $50 over MSRP, $50 under FE MSRP. Has a really good cooler and factory overclocking.

 

Which I believe that was the same deal anyway with EVGA's SC ACX lineup. But I could be wrong and that info is probably somewhere in the abyss of the internet archives.

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

snip

These guys aren't going to understand.

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

These guys aren't going to understand.

I guess not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Wyllio]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I bought the EVGA GTX 1080 SC ACX 3.0 for $650. $50 over MSRP, $50 under FE MSRP. Has a really good cooler and factory overclocking.

 

Which I believe that was the same deal anyway with EVGA's SC ACX lineup. But I could be wrong and that info is probably somewhere in the abyss of the internet archives.

Thats the point a $50 increase and you got a SC ACX 3.0, still being a reference board. While last generation a $40 increase got a FTW card, a custom PCB. GTX 970 MSRP $329, Evga GTX 970 FTW $369.

[Energycore]

I mean, if I could actually buy an RX 480 4GB for $220 down here, I would.

Until then I'm holding off, and I bet that's the story of a ton of people in EU, America and other places with bad prices.

[MrTiC]

6 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I mean, if I could actually buy an RX 480 4GB for $220 down here, I would.

Until then I'm holding off, and I bet that's the story of a ton of people in EU, America and other places with bad prices.

EU is even worse especially on nvidias side ... 

GTX 1050 TI = 229 euro 

RX 470 4GB = 249 euro

Both the MSI GAMING X

The RX is less then 10% more expensive but 20-50% faster (depending on game)

Same goes for the 1060 6GB (369) vs 319 for the RX 480 8GB 

Also both MSI GAMING X

 

 

[Energycore]

26 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Nvidia totally did not set the price of the FE cards. 

No they didn't, consumers chose that price

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Energycore said:

No they didn't, consumers chose that price

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2427-difference-between-gtx-1080-founders-edition-and-reference

 

From Gamers Nexus:

 

"NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang hosted the official GTX 1080 ($700) unveil. On stage, Huang indicated – whether intentional or not – that a few different versions of the “reference” GTX 1080 would ship. The price structure was a markedly affordable $600 MSRP for the GTX 1080, or $700 for the GTX 1080 Founder's Edition (or “Legendary Edition,” as we've taken to calling it). Based upon the stage presentation, the Founder's Edition also carried with it a mark of higher overclocking support."

 

[Rune]

Totally doesn't have anything to do with the fact that the largest manufacturer has cards that burst into flame or anything.

/s

[Energycore]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

http://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/2427-difference-between-gtx-1080-founders-edition-and-reference

 

From Gamers Nexus:

 

"NVidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang hosted the official GTX 1080 ($700) unveil. On stage, Huang indicated – whether intentional or not – that a few different versions of the “reference” GTX 1080 would ship. The price structure was a markedly affordable $600 MSRP for the GTX 1080, or $700 for the GTX 1080 Founder's Edition (or “Legendary Edition,” as we've taken to calling it). Based upon the stage presentation, the Founder's Edition also carried with it a mark of higher overclocking support."

 

I know, just poking fun at people that say Nvidia is blameless

 

In some sense, it is us that choose the prices when we're unable to exercise patience in our purchases.

But that doesn't take blame off Nvidia taking advantage of the public being easily impressionable and lazy children.

[Space Reptile]

boy when was the last time i bought a new card? last card i bought was a 290 for 130 € , i can right now get a second one for 110, but i cannot afford it  

 

many people buy new , but even more buy used , just look at the numbers 

there are more 760´s than 1070´s or 1060´s , and look at the number of 6xx and 7xx cards in general ,

it will take more than a generation for 10XX to reach levels of the 970/960 

 

 

people just wait for "new and shiny" to come out to get "now not so new and shiny" on a HUGE discount 

my 290 is a good example , same perf as a 470 , but alot cheaper 

[MrTiC]

1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

That you can blame retailers for being absolute shills, knowing people will buy dispite higher price. General consumers have been pretty much brainwashed into accepting only Nvidia cards. 

Nvidia has always been more expensive here then amd

ive used nvidia last few years but going amd with vega this time around 

[Prysin]

5 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

That's by design though - create a demand through limited availiblity.

 

This entire issue though is heavily intertwined by other issues - a more difficult economy is leaving people with less money to spend on things like their PC's. This mixed with the limited performance increase from generation to generation is stetching what was a 2-3 year upgrade cycle for some out to a 4 - 6 year process. This simply means that there is a lower demand from channel for product leaving inventories full. Synnex and Ingram aren't going to risk millions of dollars in stock sitting there to be caught out at price cuts from the manufactuer at a later date or worse, a replacement model being released.

I would not say a flat out 30-50% increase between tiers are a small gap between generations 

[MMKing]

You no longer need a super expensive GPU for 1080 60fps. Around the 400-500 / 5000-6000 era. You would need to pick from the top shelf to get 60fps.

 

Benchmark for 1080p BF1.

There is no real reason to buy new every generation anymore, which is why 1440p, 4k, 120hz and 144hz is being pushed on us. Earlier you bought new because what you had didn't cut it anymore. Now, you can stay with last generations mid level card and still do just fine.

Spoiler

 

[AlTech]

Well no shit!

 

I'm not buying a new graphics card until I can get the performance of a GTX 1070 or whereabouts for the price of an RX 480 8GB.

 

If the industry doesn't want to please customers or offer better value then I don't know what to do.....

[GooDBoY920]

I hope AMD will release Vega 10 around 500$, because soon I will upgrade to 4K and I definitely will need the horsepower to push all these pixels.

[Dabombinable]

6 hours ago, Wyllio said:

Supposed to be less costly does not mean they followed suit. Fact is the cards were overpriced and still are overpriced.

Which is why a GTX 970 SLI setup will be the way to go for me (especially considering that my current GTX 970 only runs at PCIe x8, and that the games that require a more powerful card have good SLI support).