Jagged Shadows,Pop in,Low LOD and jagged aa

[tantalus]

3 hours ago, Harsh45 said:

I’m waiting on STADIA to test and see if there is a difference using a Google chrome ultra other than an app like GEFORCE NOW on my PC,  time will tell.

Why do you use geforce now in first place escapes me.... now, we know that microsoft products, like edge from w10 will not cause these problems, because they are microsoft products. See the pattern here?....

[Asasinas]

I don't think that 99% of players have this issue. I play games for 20 years, had several PCs, had many hardware changes and never seen anything like that before. I didn't even knew that such AA issues could happen until I got it 9 months ago.

 

It doesn't matter how good or bad hardware is. Our troubleshooting has shown that brand doesn't matter, this can affect both Nvidia and AMD, low and high-end PCs.

 

I don't know how could we spread a word about this problem. Maybe we could pay to Linus so he can make some kind of sponsored video about this problem.

[I_dont_know200]

1 hour ago, Asasinas said:

I don't think that 99% of players have this issue. I play games for 20 years, had several PCs, had many hardware changes and never seen anything like that before. I didn't even knew that such AA issues could happen until I got it 9 months ago.

 

It doesn't matter how good or bad hardware is. Our troubleshooting has shown that brand doesn't matter, this can affect both Nvidia and AMD, low and high-end PCs.

 

I don't know how could we spread a word about this problem. Maybe we could pay to Linus so he can make some kind of sponsored video about this problem.

As i mentioned earlier, i think its our best option to talk to the linus tech tips team.

[Pglew99]

3 hours ago, I_dont_know200 said:

As i mentioned earlier, i think its our best option to talk to the linus tech tips team.

Perfect. But how though?

[tantalus]

9 hours ago, Asasinas said:

I don't think that 99% of players have this issue. I play games for 20 years, had several PCs, had many hardware changes and never seen anything like that before. I didn't even knew that such AA issues could happen until I got it 9 months ago.

 

It doesn't matter how good or bad hardware is. Our troubleshooting has shown that brand doesn't matter, this can affect both Nvidia and AMD, low and high-end PCs.

 

I don't know how could we spread a word about this problem. Maybe we could pay to Linus so he can make some kind of sponsored video about this problem.

 

I play games for more than 20 years as well, and i can tell you that in 2013 these problems were already there. Thing is i didnt start to notice em until 2015-2016 because this has been a really step road. By 2012-2013 the symptomps were almost not noticeable, not enough to make people cry about it. Every year increased in strenght, so new gamers so to speak have been playing all this time getting used to these problems and they dont see it as a problem. They think its natural that videogames should look that way.

 

The issues are not caused by AA, again, we dont have a clue what is causing these issues. To say it other way, if you dont use any form of antialiasing you will still see these problems. What we are talking about aa is that right now only TAA and TXAA are effective to fight against shimmering on edges and weird flickering artifacts. Also AA doesnt work like it used to be, but i dont think the AA itself is broken, as again, we dont have a clue of anything at all.

[Cypek]

I am testing so much games recently, one of the worst for me is burnout paradise on 2560x1440 resolution wiith full AA.

However I also tried older games like half-life 2, also full video option and 2k resolution. There are jaggies ofcourse...

But I have found this video

and it seems that there are no jaggies? or maybe youtube perfectly converted it. I would be mega happy if all of my games looked like that anyway :(.

[Strider890]

15 hours ago, I_dont_know200 said:

As i mentioned earlier, i think its our best option to talk to the linus tech tips team.

I did created topic about this problem in general discussion on LinusTechTips to ask Linus and his team to help us but topic was locked by moderator.

How we can contact him and his team?

(Moderator don't delete this post please)

 

[DaoNayt]

Considering what the mod said, this thread has been around for a long time and someone from the team certainly noticed it.

[tantalus]

They probably locked the topic because it was dumb to ask for help someone who has nothing to do with the problem, no matter how smart they are. This has been an issue for years, everywhere on the planet, if by now nobody figured it out... i dont think Linus team will lol. But yeah, some people were born yesterday, apparently.

[tantalus]

9 hours ago, Cypek said:

I am testing so much games recently, one of the worst for me is burnout paradise on 2560x1440 resolution wiith full AA.

However I also tried older games like half-life 2, also full video option and 2k resolution. There are jaggies ofcourse...

But I have found this video

and it seems that there are no jaggies? or maybe youtube perfectly converted it. I would be mega happy if all of my games looked like that anyway :(.

Jeezus. Do you realize that this has nothing to do with the issues we are discussing, right? . . . . . .

[Cypek]

21 minutes ago, tantalus said:

Jeezus. Do you realize that this has nothing to do with the issues we are discussing, right? . . . . . .

Did you even read my post? I am talking about JAGGIES, not about TEARING.

[I_dont_know200]

12 hours ago, Cypek said:

I am testing so much games recently, one of the worst for me is burnout paradise on 2560x1440 resolution wiith full AA.

However I also tried older games like half-life 2, also full video option and 2k resolution. There are jaggies ofcourse...

But I have found this video

and it seems that there are no jaggies? or maybe youtube perfectly converted it. I would be mega happy if all of my games looked like that anyway :(.

I wonder if anyone tried a G-Sync Monitor yet in theorie it should be smoother.

[tantalus]

2 hours ago, Cypek said:

Did you even read my post? I am talking about JAGGIES, not about TEARING.

Thats what i dont understand, you talk about jaggies and then you quote a video about tearing and g-sync that has nothing to do with it. As far as i know if you have problems with jaggies in burnout, you could try nvidia inspector or nvidia control panel because i imagine burnout is using dx9. And  yes, videos on youtube are not a real way to notice these problems, compression smooths the video mixing everything and its very hard to realize.

 

Old games are not really problematic as long as they use dx9 (most of them i guess).

[Cypek]

2 hours ago, tantalus said:

Thats what i dont understand, you talk about jaggies and then you quote a video about tearing and g-sync that has nothing to do with it. As far as i know if you have problems with jaggies in burnout, you could try nvidia inspector or nvidia control panel because i imagine burnout is using dx9. And  yes, videos on youtube are not a real way to notice these problems, compression smooths the video mixing everything and its very hard to realize.

 

Old games are not really problematic as long as they use dx9 (most of them i guess).

I have never said that I have found fix for jaggies. I was talking about jaggies so I posted video which shows gameplay, i didn't even mention tearing. I have posted some of youtube videos containing jaggies problem at this topic.

 

I will post it once again. This one shows jaggies with 4 graphic cards at 4K resolution. (but anyway I have also tested this one with my 2K resolution I am having 100x worse jaggies than the ones on the video. It's just literaly unplayable for me, while back in 2010 with CRT monitor intel core 2 duo, 9800GT I had no jaggies)

 

In the half-life 2 video jaggies are not visible, at least for me. But in game with 2K resolution and full AA, they are visible. That's why I posted it and also explained the problem.

 

[Strider890]

6 hours ago, tantalus said:

But yeah, some people were born yesterday, apparently.

Sure.

[Harsh45]

On 10/15/2019 at 12:00 PM, tantalus said:

Why do you use geforce now in first place escapes me.... now, we know that microsoft products, like edge from w10 will not cause these problems, because they are microsoft products. See the pattern here?....

I’m confused as to what the hell your trying to say here?  Microsoft products such as edge from windows 10 has NOTHING to do with GeForce Now or Shadow!

 

You say “Why do you use GeForce now in first place escapes me”. Wtf are you talking about?  
 

If I can use shadow to stream a PC from shadows server and the graphics look like complete shit then it’s not our PC,  does this make ANY sense at all?

 

Id like to understand what your talking about above?  What pattern?   

[Harsh45]

19 hours ago, tantalus said:

Thats what i dont understand, you talk about jaggies and then you quote a video about tearing and g-sync that has nothing to do with it. As far as i know if you have problems with jaggies in burnout, you could try nvidia inspector or nvidia control panel because i imagine burnout is using dx9. And  yes, videos on youtube are not a real way to notice these problems, compression smooths the video mixing everything and its very hard to realize.

 

Old games are not really problematic as long as they use dx9 (most of them i guess).

For you sure,  Not me.  All games look like shit!

[KarathKasun]

On 10/16/2019 at 9:41 PM, tantalus said:

 

I play games for more than 20 years as well, and i can tell you that in 2013 these problems were already there. Thing is i didnt start to notice em until 2015-2016 because this has been a really step road. By 2012-2013 the symptomps were almost not noticeable, not enough to make people cry about it. Every year increased in strenght, so new gamers so to speak have been playing all this time getting used to these problems and they dont see it as a problem. They think its natural that videogames should look that way.

 

The issues are not caused by AA, again, we dont have a clue what is causing these issues. To say it other way, if you dont use any form of antialiasing you will still see these problems. What we are talking about aa is that right now only TAA and TXAA are effective to fight against shimmering on edges and weird flickering artifacts. Also AA doesnt work like it used to be, but i dont think the AA itself is broken, as again, we dont have a clue of anything at all.

I have been playing games for ~30 years, starting with the C64.

 

Most of the horrid aliasing problems started with LCDs because of how they work.  MSAA made things better (textures were still very low res, so only hitting the geometry was enough), deferred rendering then broke MSAA and FXAA/postAA came about, now high res textures and POM/detail mapping are heavily used and none of the prior methods really work on textures... so SSAA (or Temporal AA+high FPS) is the only way around that currently.

 

Any AA other than SSAA is not going to make texture shimmering any better because they all primarily work only on geometry edges.  If you dont want texture shimmering on a low res display, use lower resolution textures.  Or suck it up and get a higher resolution display or use SSAA.

 

The final and real solution to the problem is to develop an image processing technique that limits contrast from pixel to pixel independent of texturing techniques or geometry.  SSAA falls into this category, and is quite good at fixing this problem, but it is a brute force method that requires lots of wasted hardware power.

 

As for shadows, internal texture and buffer filtering may be at play here, and this could also be connected to lower texture filtering overall.  For the people with texture and shadow specific issues, it looks like some kind of LOD error causing the wrong filtering to be applied to the internal buffers.  Perhaps a data type mismatch.  This is much more difficult to pin down unless you can whip up a texturing/effects demo application where you can tweak variables in the rendering engine in real time.  Even then, the implementation can change from driver to driver on the same GPU... or even from CPU to CPU on the same driver due to CPU targeted optimizations.

[Cypek]

For anyone of you who can't find game without jaggies I suggest to try Fear 3 and Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus . In Fear I had jaggies, but those are not noticable unless I really try hard to check for them at very close distance(whats wierd because usually jaggies dissapear when you come close, so it's z-buffer thing i guess), so it means the game is fully playable without any jaggies problem for me. At Wolfenstein I don't remember any jaggies and I have finished game without noticing any graphic problems. Wish all of my games could look like that, I would be mega happy.

[DaoNayt]

Just tried Division 2. Seems to use TAA and looks good. Only slight shimmering on some fine geometry, as already described here.

[KenJorY-]

Benim iki adet telefonum var. Xiaomi mi note 3 ikisinde aynı problem var. Bilgisayarımda var telefonlarımda da var inanılır gibi değil. Pubg mobile ve Call of Duty de bariz herşey belli oluyor titreyen Doku. Lanet olası hastalık.

[Jonassantos123]

 DF Direct! Modern Games Look Amazing On CRT Monitors... Yes, Better than LCD      https://youtu.be/V8BVTHxc4LM

[DaoNayt]

You would still have this problem on CRT.

[Harsh45]

Even if this CRT is true we’re moving in the WRONG direction!

 

Our we here to find the Solution/Cause to all this or are we looking for a fucking bandaid!?

 

Until somebody brings a console or PC to a place far away from there house and tests it, We cannot rule out electrical interference of some sort.  None of this makes sense.

 

If I can test numerous PCs/Monitors/TVs/Consoles/Laptops and they all have the same issues, anything hardware/driver/software related is irrelevant at this point...

[tantalus]

On 10/21/2019 at 3:34 PM, Harsh45 said:

Until somebody brings a console or PC to a place far away from there house and tests it, We cannot rule out electrical interference of some sort.  None of this makes sense.

Already done. As i said, if you read all the pages since the post was created, all kind of tests/solutions have been tried. We said it million of times, it is not electrical related, its not hardware related, hell its not even software related since this happens as well on small devices, phones, whatever you name it (althoug i didnt see it on phones or the tv, some people did). The only conclusion we could argue is that videogames today are supossed to look this way and there is nothing wrong. If that were true, i dont understand why ten years ago videogames looked far better than nowadays. It doesnt make any sense. And why there is that thing called "AAA" when, precisely, all these problems are preventing any game to actually be an AAA game....

 

The last huge problem is the playerbase. Many of them dont understand this as a problem. Mostly new gamers. Making it very difficult to make companies realize or to find a proper solution. AAA games are relatively new, and young gamers never ever lived when videogames were free of shimmering, flickering and even shadows looked far way better ten years ago than today.. i mean.... come on... i still laugh so hard when i see a video from nvidia rtx presenting ray traced shadows as a standard.. i mean, wtf, regular shadow casting is not even working properly and they introduce a new "revolutionary" shadow system? sometimes i think they just love to make jokes.