Macs are SLOWER than PCs. Here’s why.

[Thaldor]

4 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Find me any sentence on apple's website, not on the iMac pro page that says that they're build for "prosumers." Please. YOU are applying what YOU want to believe to further YOUR agenda. I can read into the data too. Man that asus computer must be build only for powerpoint and excel because that's all they showed in the pictures.

Macbook Pro:

Quote

So when you’re powering through pro‑level processing jobs like compiling code, rendering 3D models, adding special effects, layering multiple tracks, or encoding video, you’ll get everything done.

Quote

And now we’ve paired each discrete GPU with 4GB of GDDR5 memory standard, giving you fluid, real‑time performance for pro tasks like rendering 3D titles in Final Cut Pro X.

iMac:

Quote

And it allows iMac to tackle graphics-intensive tasks like 3D rendering or complex video effects in a whole new (way faster) way.

Mac Mini:

Quote

In addition to being a great desktop computer, Mac mini powers everything from home automation to giant render farms.... Mac mini has even more compute power for industrial-grade tasks. So whether you’re running a live concert sound engine or testing your latest iOS app, Mac mini is the shortest distance between a great idea and a great result.

Quote

With its lightning-quick SSD, ripping-fast performance, and small footprint, Mac mini becomes a live musical instrument with MainStage on some of the world’s largest concert tours.

Quote

From jaw-dropping performance art to giant immersive digital billboards, Mac mini drives some of the biggest and brightest digital displays with its powerful processors, high-performance memory, and fast, versatile I/O.

 

Even Macbook and Macbook Air pages are filled with notes towards how professionals use Macs and how you can achieve close to that power with this machine. Rather than selling "this is the best computer for you" they are selling them like "Those guys over there use our computers, you should also". As side note hat lift for Apple from selling their computers towards consumers when not in a single page there's comparison to "competing manufacturers machine" which would be directly trying to get people from other manufacturers to buy a Mac because they are "so much more powerful".

 

And I can assure you, it's not only prebuild vs. custom build against iMac Pro. You don't even need to go to manufacturers like Origin and whatever who basicly make "gaming" PCs from off the shelf parts, you just need to go to Lenovo, Asus and others and find workstations that will performe way better in the usecases where Apple markets iMac Pro in the same or even lower price ranges and mostly that is because iMac Pro has a terrible therman "design".

 

It's almost funny how still Mac users can't take critizism. Yes, I give that the most of that critizism is pinpoint and somewhat overblown, but still the reaction: "APPLE IS THE BEST AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS BAD AND WRONG AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG!" *almost inaudible screaming* is fucking fantastic. Like here quite many point out that Macs which are marketed towards pro users are nowhere near engineered for those pro users and you get the high-pitched screaming how Macs are not designed for them, even when they are marketed to them. I don't deny that Apple isn't alone with overheating problems and that is huge minus in any computer, I don't deny that there are usecases where Macs are better, but I still say that Macs are overpriced, pretty paperwheights when it comes to performance workloads where some of them are marketed.

While on some part you can blame Intel for those overheating problems, but still those CPUs have not been just slapped in the datasheet and after a sale slapped into Mac and shipped out. Someone at some point at Apple tested them and 100% surely found out that Macs don't have thermal design to handle those CPUs and probably wrote a report about that and then someone else just threw that report to the thrashbin and we gained Macs that don't performe to the bar with their hardware. And the problems don't end even there when we talk about thermal problems, in the video you see only around tens of minutes of testing, that already shows how those Macs are just dying, now take those to the real life: I used to render some concept scenes and videos in my earlier work and rendering some of those would take days with small rendering farm, but still most of them were rendered with my workstation alone in hours to couple of days, I would never ever trust any modern Mac to run in that kind of workload even half a day without going thermanuclear. And still there' this in Apples store pages:

Quote

...lets you create 3D enviroments up to two times faster¹, then render them in stunning photorealistic detail.

The machine begs for death after minutes of benchmarking, how the fuck it's going to survive hours of rendering?

Quote

...is optimized for performance across the board.

After 2 days of intense rendering, I can probably see the performance across the board and probably also across the case and probably after that across the floor.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Its not apple hate, its valid criticism.

it is. it's not about a single product here. and other manufacturers are guilty of this too but do they get a video? of course not. 

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

The Real Problem is Apple Fans defending Apple when they botch something

when have I ever defended then on a botched product? why do you think I have a 2012 MacBook Pro and not a newer one when I can afford a newer one? it's because of the bulletproof reliability of the specific model I have as well as the upgradability. 

 

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

And I don't see a malicious intent in that video. Even if I wanted to. I see harsh, valid criticism.

05:46 - generalizing Apple customers as people who only buy a Mac for status or whatever and no other reasons. 

 

3 hours ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

So that's one out of how many? 

not sure. but I see loads of Apple fans complain online about Apple's constant obsession with making devices thinner. and I'm one of them. I love my 2012 MBP and it's thinner and lighter than I need it to be. I wouldn't mind if they went back to this form factor. 

[William Payne]

If you want to see real Apple hate and critique. Go spend time on the Mac Rumours forum. That place is probably the most negative place I have ever been too on the internet. 

[fulminemizzega]

Some of the posts in this thread really are something... it really shows that LMG can never put enough effort into their content, this video only shows facts and does already answer everything argued down here. I wonder, are we talking about the same video linked in the first post of this thread?

 

I've always seen Apple target "creatives" or what they should be called, I've always seen Jobs talk about focus and building products that are a perfect fit for a specific target, I still see how they keep advertising their pro products in the same way. Yet now it looks like people who need to get their job done with a computer ("creatives") are not a target for Apple, even their pro line is for ... lay people?

This is a serious issue, not a childish debate: professionals, that is, maybe it is not clear enough, people with a job that pays money ("creatives"?), bought equipment, software, trained or got used to a certain workflow, because they knew or expected that Apple would keep selling devices to fullfill their professional needs. Now they do not get enough value out of current Apple Pro devices.

About soldering components: when building a board, connectors are expensive, go on digikey and start comparing prices. Apple saves money, saves some space, and makes devices become obsolete somewhat faster. But I see a much more relevant issue that keeps being completely ignored, in many places, and it baffles me: what if just a connector needs to be replaced, or a 0.001$ capacitor, or a voltage regulator, or another 1$ IC? Mistakes do happen, faulty components do exist. Apple prefers to sell its customers another complete board (with all the soldered components, mind you) instead of repairing it. It is standard across the industry. It is more expensive but quicker, I could see a pro user more inclined to follow this route. Where does all this e-waste go? Is not Apple, among all the various things, also saving the planet?

I can understand: it is expensive to pay someone to repair complex boards all day long. It is a slow process, you do not know how much time it requires, it requires skill. It could be left to 3rd parties. Instead, Apple makes as hard as possible to repair their devices: they do not sell replacement ICs, they even go as far as adding firmware tricks to reduce compatibility with replacements (eg: screen replacement in macbooks). So, again, where does all this e-waste go? How is this better for the environment? How is this better for consumers? Who benefits from this? Why does then samsungparts.com exist?

I expect someone will answer me saying that I hate Apple, it show that sometimes there is nothing to be done. It will also be my fault for not being clear enough in my reasoning. It is, I think, time to grow up a little.

 

@GabenJr If you are going to make a video with benchmarks with macOS on KVM, you could also include performance points in this video and compare stock and chilled environments. Thanks for your thorugh research on this.

[3 Lions]

4 hours ago, William Payne said:

 

I must have chosen the wrong case for my iPhone X. When you looking at the case you would have no idea what phone it was. Same goes for every case I have had with my iphones. 

Your point? 

[3 Lions]

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

not sure. but I see loads of Apple fans complain online about Apple's constant obsession with making devices thinner. and I'm one of them. I love my 2012 MBP and it's thinner and lighter than I need it to be. I wouldn't mind if they went back to this form factor. 

Well just remember that you are not the only person in the world with an Apple device, that's what I was trying to say . 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

12 minutes ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

Well just remember that you are not the only person in the world with an Apple device, that's what I was trying to say . 

yes I am aware. but generalisation of all kinds is bad so I called LTT out on it. 

[Thaldor]

1 hour ago, fulminemizzega said:

About soldering components: when building a board, connectors are expensive, go on digikey and start comparing prices. Apple saves money, saves some space, and makes devices become obsolete somewhat faster. But I see a much more relevant issue that keeps being completely ignored, in many places, and it baffles me: what if just a connector needs to be replaced, or a 0.001$ capacitor, or a voltage regulator, or another 1$ IC? Mistakes do happen, faulty components do exist. Apple prefers to sell its customers another complete board (with all the soldered components, mind you) instead of repairing it. It is standard across the industry. It is more expensive but quicker, I could see a pro user more inclined to follow this route. Where does all this e-waste go? Is not Apple, among all the various things, also saving the planet?

It's actually why Apple is a trillion dollar company. They do repair those boards.

 

The thing is they just ripoff their customers while doing it. That broken capacitor that costs $0,001 and replacing it takes almost no skill and couple of minutes costs the customer complete board ($500-1500) plus work (~$100). Apple then "fixes" (quatation marks because seen enough Apple repairs from Rossmann where Apple repaired board is more like glued together) the board which usually costs a lot less than even the ~$100 for work and they get "fixed" refurbished board. Second part where they ripoff comes next: That refurbished board is sent back up the tree to be a spare part that costs the same $500-1500 for someone whos board breaks and not even the "genius" (insert the old genius meme here) bar knows which spare boards are new and which are refurbished and the customer always pays for a new complete board and may end up getting refurbished one.

[Stefan Payne]

5 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

it is. it's not about a single product here. and other manufacturers are guilty of this too but do they get a video? of course not. 

Yes, you are right and the Purpetrators (*cough* Intel *cough*) deserve some shit for this mess as well.

I've looked at that:

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P-and-W-Series-Mobile/P72-Thermal-Throttoling/td-p/4182866

 

Its a rediculously expensive unit and they talk about 78W Powerboost and that it works at 60W boost with 93°C...

Its a 45W TDP Part.

Manufacturers designed their cooling solution to be for a 45W Part.

It takes as much as it can get though...

60W is already 33% above TDP, 78W is even 73% more...

It would have been more honest to call it a 60W TDP CPU...

 

5 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

when have I ever defended then on a botched product? why do you think I have a 2012 MacBook Pro and not a newer one when I can afford a newer one? it's because of the bulletproof reliability of the specific model I have as well as the upgradability. 

Exactly that he criticises that the products are rediculously expensive and don't deliver what you expect for that price point.

You yourself kinda seem to agree, don't you?

 

5 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

05:46 - generalizing Apple customers as people who only buy a Mac for status or whatever and no other reasons. 

He's not wrong, is he?

#notall of course, but most or many do.

Or are told to get Apple for school or other stuff...

 

There are of course some people who differ from that but the average Apple user does kinda use it as a statuss symbol and would be fine with whatever you put in front of them - even a decently powerful chromebook.

 

5 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

not sure. but I see loads of Apple fans complain online about Apple's constant obsession with making devices thinner. and I'm one of them. I love my 2012 MBP and it's thinner and lighter than I need it to be. I wouldn't mind if they went back to this form factor. 

And here you see apple fans defending the shit and bashing people who dare to criticize them. (no, not you)...

 

 

Here the question:
Do you deny that many Apple Products have really shitty thermal designs?

Do you deny that for the price that Apple demands, you should expect reliable, well designed (the technical design, not optical) products that do not have thermal issues??

 

[mrchow19910319]

22 hours ago, Garandir said:

I think I have the answer regarding the apparent difference in focus on performance between Apple mobile devices and their computers. It's just an accident, you see. Apple went with a C-family language, Android went with Java. This is mainly due to generational differences. Apple had old-timers in their company with ties to Objective-C. Google had young hipster engineers that value high level languages. So to this day the performance advantage of ios vs android is just due to the language, and it's funny, because people have this idea that Apple is so good at optimizing or that they can optimize because they control the hardware etc. It's all nonsense, most likely they do very little optimization work because native code is so fast that they have a lot of room to screw up. It's all just the difference between native code and non-native code. Most likely, Google is doing way more work towards optimization than Apple. Any developer will know converting pieces of code from Java to C++ can sometimes make things orders of magnitude faster. I know there's a native SDK available for Android, but many applications don't use that, whereas in the ios world, almost everything is native.

nOw LEt'S RE-wRITe eveRYThiNG In jaVAscRIPt!!!!!!!!!!

21 hours ago, corrado33 said:

 

thank you for explaining things so throughly for us. Your explanation is quite well put.

 

21 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

 

completely agree with what you said 

 

 

[xoftware]

Woah, this topic really blew up. I'd like to add 2 cents.

 

I'm not an apple fan in the least, but to be fair, isn't it the point of mobile device designers to... put hardware in mobile devices? In other words, isn't this a marketing problem for the industry as a whole? I'm genuinely curious. Don't the gaming laptops also have to deal with thermals and power?

 

I say this because I have been very frustrated looking for a new laptop. Everybody advertises "Desktop Performance" in a "Thin" Laptop, and everything is way too expensive. But, the thing is, if we are at the point you can fit a GTX 10-series in a laptop, then IT IS LAPTOP-GRADE HARDWARE, not desktop grade. "Hey did you know if you spread out the form factor and voltage of the card to fit in a laptop... it will fit in a laptop?"

 

Why would I pay a premium for a "thin" laptop? Why am I paying a premium for a laptop that's actually a laptop? Are you saying before you didn't sell laptops? "Well, you see this laptop is actually a laptop, or you can buy this laptop that's actually not a laptop." Look, I'm all impressed as the next guy, but I wouldn't even pay an engineer by the hour that much.

 

I mean look at some of these monstrosities, and everybody is "thin and light", and the "thin and light" ones aren't really thin and light, (some are literally an inch thick,) and they do everything in their power to hide that fact and make it appear so. (For example: 15 product pictures from every angle except direct on, full retail listings for a "THIN LAPTOP" with no mention of "HOW THIN." I went on a MSI product spec page for a laptop with THIN IN THE NAME that was just a 40-foot long brochure, searched for "mm" and "inch" NO RESULT. rage quit.) It's either what I need or it's not. More CSS isn't going to make me buy it.

 

I've found that everybody follows the same trends, same pricing, and that seems to include not making something that has everything you are specifically looking for. The fact is, they don't want you to be satisfied, or you will actually get use out of it and have no reason to upgrade. That may sound crazy, but be honest, 90% of the listed laptops right now are heading straight for the landfill in a couple years. It will be a joke to even own one in short notice. They know this too.

 

I know for a fact if you can put a RTX and a 6-core in a laptop, and make it thin and cool it, then you could also take out the GPU, and SELL IT TO ME FOR LESS. Throw some more m.2 slots in there, some more DIMMs, more battery, etc. That's all I want, a thin workstation, no GPU. No dice.

 

TL;DR: Parts (that work properly) in a laptop are laptop-grade. We know hardware prices are jacked up, especially due to crypto, so they can't sell laptops that are actually laptops for a reasonable price or the "desktop-grade" hardware will have to fall in price too. Marketing is a mess everywhere. As much as we want to blame laptops, actually it's more of a desktop problem too. When we can put the same performance in mini-ITX as full ATX, it's a problem of outdated standards, and we really need to change how we look at it as consumers. BUT IT HAS RGB. /rant

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Do you deny that many Apple Products have really shitty thermal designs?

Do you deny that for the price that Apple demands, you should expect reliable, well designed (the technical design, not optical) products that do not have thermal issues??

I agree that many do, but it can be fixed with a new fan curve on the older one's. mine stock goes to 90+ degrees, but with a custom fancurve I get a max of 70 with the stock (7 year old) thermal paste. the design on mine at least isn't flawed, but the stock config is crappy. 

 

and sure I would expect well designed products, and the GPU issues on the 15" MBP's of a few years ago were inexcusable. but, Apple owned up to it and had a repair program long after the warranty expired. so at least they own up to their mistakes. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Do you deny that many Apple Products have really shitty thermal designs?

Do you deny that for the price that Apple demands, you should expect reliable, well designed (the technical design, not optical) products that do not have thermal issues??

I would deny the "shitty" part. And I will argue that their devices are well designed. Just open up a 5 year old macbook... two fans, heatpipes in two directions... hot air blown out towards the (glas) display, not your hands - stuff everyone does - nowadays, just took some manufacturers years to adopt this design. I'm glad Apple did this, because now I can buy Windows Notebooks with USB-C and Thunderbolt and similar comfort. And better keyboards  

Progress! 

I agree: it would be way better if there wasn't a compromise necessary. But show me any device that doesn't do that? Even desktop PC's can run into thermal issues. I even have that issue with the PC's that I build myself... wrong case, bad fan layout, too much dampening materials... not always that easy or straightforward.

 

And for notebooks there is not just performance on the table. There is weight, there is battery life, there is robustness due to transport and so on. So thermal design is probably not the highest priority on that list. Might needs some focus back - I agree -would be nice to have it all! With notebooks, I value weight, then battery life, then performance. I would argue 80% of notebook users rarely stress modern notebooks that much that this matters this much. True: if you rely on best thermals because you really need the performance... well... wrong device?! unless you're a final cut pro user? then you're just doomed to wait that minute? Again: 1% of their customers? 5%? Why should any company optimize for that segment if it's currently just not possible or easy enough or would make things even more expensive for the average customer? I only see gaming notebooks trying this or getting at least closer to proper thermals. But then I am back into the weight discussion - and on battery life... and does gaming focused hardware come with a large life-span?

 

And besides: looks! Looks do matter. Any sales agent pulling out an Alienware device? No. Because looks are also part of professionalism. It might be uncool for techies to wear suits, but at some point these things matter too. The optical aspect just is important.

(might be the right time to demand people on camera to wear long trousers? or proper shoes? :D)

 

Not that it all should be like this. I mean the wishlist for notebooks is sort of clear and demanding this is right (since its advertised)! So complaining about this and making customers aware of what the current choice of features from manufactures is, so they can verify their assumptions what they buy, is surely helpful! 

 

But no car holds 2 to 40 people and drives 20'000km on one tank. Companies will design for the needs of the majority of their customers, and the devices need to hold up against those criteria in the first place (and this is just not what they write on their websites. the criteria they build for probably aren't public at all). Measuring against that top 5% percentile is interesting, but not relevant. I'll argue people buying a new notebook from the same manufacturer (Apple users tend to be on the stubborn side here?) will just compare numbers and go "bigger is better" (I mean explain to me how fast 2.8GHz is? compared to 2.6GHz a few years ago...) - so whats written on websites... those are there to sell and make people enthusiastic, not to tell honest stories. If so they would put the benchmarks there themselves - do they? No, because benchmarks make customers sad.

Isn't that a bit a waste of time? Verifying that what companies advertise isn't true? Fuel consumption of cars? Used water of a washing machine? No one cares what they say - it's only important what it does. And the video shows this.

 

I mean there are videos on what a notebook cpu does, and what it could do. Maybe be more clear on that. The differences of those two numbers ranked by model and manufacturer would be interesting. So I don't buy too expensive stuff hoping for the best  (or the people that care in more detail - can't save everyone) - but then again: I can live with some throttling if there is less noise... a bit of a hard triangle to choose from - or define "truth" for that matter. The ranking would need some dynamic/individual aspects  (until all just works as advertised).

 

The video might didn't go deep enough  - needs a series with some episodes or something (Dells are slower than Lenovos, Acers are slower than Razers, and so on, until we have a winner!)

[chr1spe]

19 hours ago, LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo said:

So that's one out of how many? 

 

Come on you can't deny the fact that Apple products are the Chelsea tractors of electronic devices. 

You do realize that a huge number of professionals actually use Macs right? If anything afaik the people they are most popular with are developers and physicists. Obviously there aren't huge numbers of developers or physicists so that still isn't the majority of their customer base, but the only places I've seen mac actually be the most popular OS is with physicists and devs. From my experience with both physics and development Mac and Linux are fairly close, but I'd guess Mac wins out by a bit and Windows is 3rd by a lot. When I was in physics grad school practically every professor that actually did anything beyond running proprietary software on their computer had a mac. Most of the grad students working for them used linux because of the price. If you have the money and are working on your computer most of the day every day though price really shouldn't be that large of a concern.

 

Its pretty funny to me how much the general gamer and PC community really seems to know almost nothing about the general development community. For many types of development not having a unix or unix-like operating system is extremely annoying. That limits the choice to Mac and Linux. Both have their upsides and their downsides, but Mac is definitely more polished and plug and play. Also if there is some proprietary software you need its more commonly going to lock you to Mac than Linux. Every time there is a tech video about Mac's though people seem to completely ignore this.

 

I personally prefer linux, end up using Mac at work because of a particular piece of proprietary software that is unavailable on linux and the fact that I would rather not dual boot or have to constantly us a VM for that software, and have a windows/linux machine at home that is actually mostly used for gaming on windows. I'm by no means a Mac fan even though I would consider myself a bit of a Windows hater despite using it. I just find it funny that people make these broad generalizations about Mac users that are so counter to my own experience. Sure there are a lot of people who don't need performance that buy Macs, but there are a huge number of professionals like developers who use Macs and when people talk down about Mac users in general it makes me think they really haven't been around that many Devs because a huge amount of them use Macs.

 

Also I think the main complaints about this type of video is that there are parts of the video that do make negative generalizations about Mac users and ignore that there are a lot of professionals that actually do use them.

[William Payne]

11 minutes ago, chr1spe said:

You do realize that a huge number of professionals actually use Macs right? If anything afaik the people they are most popular with are developers and physicists. Obviously there aren't huge numbers of developers or physicists so that still isn't the majority of their customer base, but the only places I've seen mac actually be the most popular OS is with physicists and devs. From my experience with both physics and development Mac and Linux are fairly close, but I'd guess Mac wins out by a bit and Windows is 3rd by a lot. When I was in physics grad school practically every professor that actually did anything beyond running proprietary software on their computer had a mac. Most of the grad students working for them used linux because of the price. If you have the money and are working on your computer most of the day every day though price really shouldn't be that large of a concern.

 

Its pretty funny to me how much the general gamer and PC community really seems to know almost nothing about the general development community. For many types of development not having a unix or unix-like operating system is extremely annoying. That limits the choice to Mac and Linux. Both have their upsides and their downsides, but Mac is definitely more polished and plug and play. Also if there is some proprietary software you need its more commonly going to lock you to Mac than Linux. Every time there is a tech video about Mac's though people seem to completely ignore this.

 

I personally prefer linux, end up using Mac at work because of a particular piece of proprietary software that is unavailable on linux and the fact that I would rather not dual boot or have to constantly us a VM for that software, and have a windows/linux machine at home that is actually mostly used for gaming on windows. I'm by no means a Mac fan even though I would consider myself a bit of a Windows hater despite using it. I just find it funny that people make these broad generalizations about Mac users that are so counter to my own experience. Sure there are a lot of people who don't need performance that buy Macs, but there are a huge number of professionals like developers who use Macs and when people talk down about Macs in general it makes me think they really haven't been around that many Devs because a huge amount of them use Macs.

 

Also I think the main complaints about this type of video is that there are parts of the video that do make negative generalizations about Mac users and ignore that there are a lot of professionals that actually do use it.

 

proprietary software often gets overlooked. It’s like in the creative space. There are still software packages that are only on Mac. It’s gotten better but it still exists. Plus anywhere you go in the world and you need something for your work Mac is more common. 

 

Proprietary software is how I got into the Apple ecosystem to begin with way back when. 

 

Have to be fare though. LTT is a gamer orientated demographic. There are thousands upon thousands of professionals out there with vastly different workloads and many of them have zero interest in gaming. 

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, chr1spe said:

For many types of development not having a unix or unix-like operating system is extremely annoying.

That's not true. Unless you're devloping for OSX and/or iOS, what OS you choose is completely irrelevant outside of personal preference.

 

8 minutes ago, chr1spe said:

many Devs because a huge amount of them use Macs.

Usually because Xcode is required to write iOS apps, and Xcode is only available on OSX.

 

 

Also, when this article was written, OSX only held the #1 spot for developer choice in OS because Windows was the only OS family broken into the different major releases:

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/apple/why-programmers-think-mac-os-x-is-best-os-use-3638706/

 

OSX had 26.2%, Modern Windows (ie 7, 8, and 10) held 51.7%

[abhinav.mehra]

"So why this difference in philosophy?"
There is NO difference in philosophy, the difference is in the CPUs.
Apple designs the CPU for the iPhone and the iPad and can make thermal efficiency a priority (the iPhones do not have any active cooling). However, when they build laptops they have to go with Intel CPUs. Intel does not share the same priorities as Apple.
Apple will not change its philosophy because of Intel, they will much rather design their own desktop CPUs.... (foreshadowing)

PSA: I do not own any Apple products, hence not a fanboy.

[William Payne]

I wonder if I am classified a fanboy. Even though I used windows PC for YEARS!!  Before I even touched a Mac. 

[williamcll]

I wonder a water cooled pillow will work better than a laptop cooler that I gave to my brother.

[William Payne]

No laptop out there could possibly run hotter than my hp laptop from 2012. That thing could roast marshmallows. 

[chr1spe]

39 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That's not true. Unless you're devloping for OSX and/or iOS, what OS you choose is completely irrelevant outside of personal preference.

 

Usually because Xcode is required to write iOS apps, and Xcode is only available on OSX.

 

 

Also, when this article was written, OSX only held the #1 spot for developer choice in OS because Windows was the only OS family broken into the different major releases:

https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/apple/why-programmers-think-mac-os-x-is-best-os-use-3638706/

 

OSX had 26.2%, Modern Windows (ie 7, 8, and 10) held 51.7%

Developing for linux based servers, which is the majority of them, makes more sense to do on another linux or unix based platform. Also when you are used to using bash a ton its nice to have native access to it on the machine you are working on. Its much easier to get a more similar development environment when your development platform and live or computing platform are more similar. You definitely can develop for lamp stack on windows and I have for example, but IMO it doesn't really make sense to. I may be biased too, but correctly setting up paths and environments is just much more annoying in windows in my experience, but that could just be because I have far more experience developing on linux and mac. Also I've seen other polls that were skewed much more toward linux and mac, but really who knows which ones are actually accurate and which aren't.

[dDave64]

I’ve always know that they sacrificed performance for aesthetics. Meaning both cooling noise and looks.

 

good to see someone knowledgeable confirm.

 

Really sad that the general public doesn’t care at all and will continue supporting them no matter what.

[Curious Pineapple]

My old Toshiba Satellite doesn't thermal throttle with a 2.8 Northwood P4 in it....

[suicidalfranco]

18 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

and sure I would expect well designed products, and the GPU issues on the 15" MBP's of a few years ago were inexcusable. but, Apple owned up to it and had a repair program long after the warranty expired. so at least they own up to their mistakes. 

If by owning up to their mistakes you mean waiting to be sued to oblivion, make the lawsuit last as long as possible while waiting for majority of affected customer to move on and just get the new model, and finally after X amount of years announce an extended warranty program whilst settling the lawsuits out of court...

Sure.

[r2724r16]

14 hours ago, dDave64 said:

I’ve always know that they sacrificed performance for aesthetics. Meaning both cooling noise and looks.

 

good to see someone knowledgeable confirm.

LMG, including Linus, thinks that benchmarks and temperatures are what determine if a laptop is good or not.

 

They, and a lot of tech enthusiasts, don't realize that most people don't care about Cinebench scores and thermal throttling.

 

Most people (non-techies) prioritize build quality, battery life, screen, and "speed" (as in storage) in laptops.

14 hours ago, dDave64 said:

Really sad that the general public doesn’t care at all and will continue supporting them no matter what.

That's because the general public doesn't care about benchmarks, but rather the actual experience of using the laptop.

 

There's certainly a reason why MacBooks sell like crazy (at their insane price points).

 

And yet, most techies refuse to accept the reason for this and instead opt to call the general public ignorant.