PCMasterRace is Ignorant

[Suika]

Not $350 but $400-500. Don't these discounts that have been dropped on them, they were $400-500 on release. I will show you a build soon.

$350, with peripherals, no sales, or it will be disqualified. I mention no sales as in, "no black friday deals." All parts, as they are now. The GTX 780 started at $700, would it be fair to consider that the expense of it then? Even the GTX 750 Ti, which could probably be found for $110 now, was originally $150.

 

PC gaming is cheaper is one of the most short-sighted statements ever. It's cheaper, IN THE LONG RUN! I still love how you say "bought in a sale". This is not relevant as the same could be done for the pc games AND components, do not count discounts. Say we keep both the PC and the console for 8 years (Time between xbox 360 and xbone). Normal price for XboxLive gold is about 40-45 a year I believe? Let's be generous and say 30. That's 450 for the console plus 8*30=240 just to play multiplayer = 690, You have not even bought a single game yet. Xbox games (the good ones anyway) are $50-60 but mostly 60. Now over the course of those 8 years you buy 12 of these $60 games (not at all an unreasonable guess). That's 690 + 720 = $1410. Now lets buy those same 60$ games on the PC, only here you can EASILY get them for 35, brand new like day of release. That's 12*35 = 420, leaving $990 for a PC just to equalize the costs. Well you know as well as I do that you can make a PC that can handle all of that for less than $990, making the PC a lot cheaper in the long run. "Also, people still buy games on release for PC at the full $60." Hell no, just no. Look at G2a, G2Play, Steam sales (50-90% lolz).

You're talking as if Xbox Live and console games never go on sale. I only buy Xbox Live at $30, with no issues finding it each time, and Destiny, a fairly new title, has been seen for $25-30. You're cherry picking the prices to benefit the argument. In the long run, they might be about the same expense, if you keep the same PC throughout the entire time. Even I couldn't go without upgrading my PC.

 

FC4 can't accommodate Dual cores true but that's not because dual cores lack in power, it's because FC4 is buggered and extremely poorly built. FC4 is an exception and should not be used as an example. BF4 can use 8 threads yet it can run fine on a G3258.

I refuse to believe that Far Cry 4 will be the only instance now that everybody is so concerned with multithreading.

 

It's not hard at all indeed, a 5-year-old can build it (literally). Ease is not the issue here, it's functionality so I disagree with this argument in its entirety.

That's what I argued, but we're talking about gaming. I don't think an average gamer is concerned with constant rendering, simulating, or other extremely demanding tasks.

 

Experience has implied that the amount of immature infantile beings are more numerous on console than pc BECAUSE the console is more accessible. PC has its rotten eggs too but consoles have them more, way more (experienced first hand)

I still don't see an argument with the consoles and their respective communities. Some of the cooler people I've met have only been on console.

 

It's 50x easier to not play on 4-player splitscreen for one. Also no need to travel to the same house but something can be said for both so this argument can be dropped.

If you're the introvert type, that can be argued, but even I'm introverted, and I love having a console just to play local with friends and siblings.

 

"And you have to upgrade a PC with the new consoles to match the new demands these new games might have". 100% not true. You can tone the dials down or upgrade JUST the GPU since the CPU is rarely the bottleneck. Resulting in an extremely cheap and efficient upgrade. Making the base cost of building a PC lower and therefore increasing the lower cost of PC's overtime. Also we can be content with lower fps whereas it's simply not released on your older console.

I just looked over some video cards from 2006, around console releases. They are all cards that I'm confident would not be able to run CoD: Ghosts on the same settings that an Xbox 360 would. Support has been completely dropped for these cards. 

 

I'm not content with a lower FPS or sacrifice to quality when I'm referring to PC.

 

THis is why PCMR exists (partially as a joke). There is just so much that is superior.

A lot about PC is superior, except price, support, and ease of use. Some avid believers in PCMR think that consoles shouldn't even exist, but I disagree.

 

You are taking PCMR way too seriously . The term is a joke but there will always be fanboys. This is not disrespect, this is just fanboy war.

As I've said earlier, there still exist PC gamers that don't even realize that PCMR is a joke. I've met them, and I dislike them.

 

I think I have implied by now that this statement is very wrong and just as ignorant and short-sighted as you make the PCMR out to be.

Your arguments still don't sound solid, and I've met many console gamers that accuse PC gamers of being elitist for their preferences. Some PC gamers and console gamers don't realize it's a joke as you make it out to be.

[Semper]

While #PCMR is widely accepted as heckling, I present you a PC that is very competitive with consoles, for around the same price. In no way am I saying that PC gaming is the end-all-be-all, all platforms have their pros and cons. PC is right for me.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Celeron G1820 2.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($42.39 @ SuperBiiz) 

Motherboard: Asus H81M-D PLUS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($44.49 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Kingston 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($31.45 @ SuperBiiz) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.49 @ OutletPC) 

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($104.99 @ Newegg) 

Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($34.99 @ Directron) 

Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($29.99 @ Micro Center) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($90.26 @ OutletPC) 

Total: $427.05

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-26 17:12 EST-0500

 

As always, being on the 1150 socket, it leaves room for an upgrade down the road.

Stick an i5 in there, more ram, a better GPU at some point, and you'll far exceed anything that consoles can do. it it's current state, it can arguably moderately surpass anything that a console can do.

[Adreyu]

I dont really argue that consoles are better and more convenient for lower end graphics and price, and dont require much maintenance.

My thing as always been if you want a more powerful, better graphical experience,

with a lot more than just gaming and video watching to offer, then PC is the way to go.

Something you have to remember is PC isnt just about the games, they have loads of other features for school, or work, or just general hobbies. 

E.G. Photoshop, Office applications, Video editors (to a much larger degree), Programming, Multiple OS Options, and the ability to personalize far beyond that of a console.

Consoles are great for people who want the basics, PC's are for people who expect more from their experience.

For the people who want the ability to upgrade at their convenience.

For the best of the best with as little compromises as possible, you want a PC.

 

Just my opinion

 

Edit: I forgot to add Steam is a big factor.

[Suika]

 

While #PCMR is widely accepted as heckling, I present you a PC that is very competitive with consoles, for around the same price. In no way am I saying that PC gaming is the end-all-be-all, all platforms have their pros and cons. PC is right for me.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

 

CPU: Intel Celeron G1820 2.7GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($42.39 @ SuperBiiz) 

Motherboard: Asus H81M-D PLUS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($44.49 @ Newegg) 

Memory: Kingston 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($31.45 @ SuperBiiz) 

Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($48.49 @ OutletPC) 

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card  ($104.99 @ Newegg) 

Case: NZXT Source 210 (White) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($34.99 @ Directron) 

Power Supply: Corsair Builder 430W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($29.99 @ Micro Center) 

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - 64-bit (OEM) (64-bit)  ($90.26 @ OutletPC) 

Total: $427.05

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-26 17:12 EST-0500

 

As always, being on the 1150 socket, it leaves room for an upgrade down the road.

Stick an i5 in there, a better GPU at some point, and you'll far exceed anything that consoles can do. it it's current state, it can arguably moderately surpass anything that a console can do.

Impressive that you got it down that far, but my issue is, with a build like that, I would actually prefer a console. Not to mention, it's missing a mouse, keyboard (or a controller if you're that type), and mic. That's still about $20 worth of stuff in reality, but point being, $350 is a pretty good deal for an Xbox One. Even including the price of Xbox Live, it's still a pretty decent deal.

[Vivilacqua1]

-snip-

 

you could even go to g2a for the os (what i did) appx. $20-$30

[Semper]

Impressive that you got it down that far, but my issue is, with a build like that, I would actually prefer a console. Not to mention, it's missing a mouse, keyboard (or a controller if you're that type), and mic. That's still about $20 worth of stuff in reality, but point being, $350 is a pretty good deal for an Xbox One. Even including the price of Xbox Live, it's still a pretty decent deal.

You can pick up a mouse and keyboard set for a few bucks, there are combo bundles that are often under $20. No, they won't be the greatest quality.

 

No, it doesn't have a mic, but if we're being completely honest, everyone knows that the headsets that the consoles come with (does the PS4 come with one?) are complete trash.

The first 360 I bought came with a DOA headset, the second one came with one that broke in under a month. You'd be investing in one relatively quickly, anyway.

[Vivilacqua1]

Impressive that you got it down that far, but my issue is, with a build like that, I would actually prefer a console. Not to mention, it's missing a mouse, keyboard (or a controller if you're that type), and mic. That's still about $20 worth of stuff in reality, but point being, $350 is a pretty good deal for an Xbox One. Even including the price of Xbox Live, it's still a pretty decent deal.

what about extra controllers on your xbox1 for friends, and even a mic.?

 

those controllers are very expensive

[CaptainKoda]

hey this is a tech forum not an argument!!!!

[Semper]

you could even go to g2a for the os (what i did) appx. $20-$30

There's conflicting reports of the validity and sustainability of the G2a Windows codes. I opted to not go for that option for that reason and still build a competitive PC.

[Suika]

You can pick up a mouse and keyboard set for a few bucks, there are combo bundles that are often under $20. No, they won't be the greatest quality.

 

No, it doesn't have a mic, but if we're being completely honest, everyone knows that the headsets that the consoles come with (does the PS4 come with one?) are complete trash.

The first 360 I bought came with a DOA headset, the second one came with one that broke in under a month. You'd be investing in one relatively quickly, anyway.

I actually like the mic for the Xbox One. It's worked well for me so far, and Microsoft is pretty good with replacements in my experience.

 

what about extra controllers on your xbox1 for friends, and even a mic.?

 

those controllers are very expensive

They can bring their own, or I could buy an aftermarket.

[rambi36]

I know that both PC and Consoles have their pros and cons, but in reality the PC pros outweigh the cons by quite a bit. Consoles however are easier for people who don't want to know or care about computers. They just wanna play and have fun.

And also can we please stop making these kind of threads. All they do is just start flamewars.

[Sauron]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DkvKGX Here, I came at you. 352$, peripherals included (they aren't the best out there for sure, but they are still a good deal more precise than a controller), destroys an xbox one in everything performancewise. About that thing with far cry 4, maybe you didn't get the memo, but the core gate is being artificially forced. There's a video proving that the game runs just fine on two cores. If ubisoft can't make a decent release that's not a fault of pcs. And if you really must play that game, go buy an athlon 840k instead, that's a quad core for about the same price. I didn't even check if there was some black friday stuff in there because the xbox one's current price is holiday season only. It's a timed deal, after which both this pc and the xbone will go up in price. If you don't accept this argument, go ahead and use a 265 instead of a 270; it still outperforms an xbone significantly. Also bare in mind a lot of the complaints with the xbone were related to when it was 500$, it only just recently started to be released kinectless and at a cheaper price.

 

1) Yes, it's cheaper. The games are cheaper, there is no sub fee, the pc itself would be cheaper if we did a precise performance match. 60$ spared a year easily make up for the higher power draw. I find ridiculous that you propose an i5 for a "minimum" build, that's bs. The cpu on the xbone is much weaker than any i5. The gpu you chose is also a joke for this kind of build, it's significantly more expensive than its amd counterparts. Not ideal if you're on a very tight budget. If people buy games at release on pc it's their fault, and it's still 10 bucks cheaper than getting them at lauch on a console (and if you're going to argue people don't wait for pc and wait for console, please don't).

 

2) Then fine, a console is easier if you(generic)'re a retard. That's pretty much what you're saying; a 9-year-old could build a computer with a little guidance. If sparing a couple of hours and a small hassle is worth all the other downsides to you, then go ahead and buy a console, but arguing that consoles are superior because you (generic you) can't build a pc is weak at best.

 

3) I'll give you that, and frankly I never really felt like generalizing a full community was a valid point anyway.

 

4) For one, to play online there's the usual sub fee. And a lot of games support split screen on pc atm, either officially of with an easy mod. Here's a list: http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Local_Multiplayer_Games

That said, split screen mp is actually one of the few actual pros I can find abut consoles. So while the above certainly mitigates it, if you're really big into split screen then a console is pretty much the way to go.

 

5) Half-ass games aren't really a sensible metre to use when measuring the optimization of games for a platform or another... and honestly ACU didn't run any better on consoles... extra optimization in an iffy point, mainly because x86 is a platform devs know perfectly. While there certainly is some specific optimization that can be done, chances are it won't be game changing and devs sometimes just don't seem like they even care (such as ubi) to optimize stuff properly, let alone for very specific hardware.

when people use that argument they refer to two things: retro (and forward) - compatibility and the possibility to upgrade single parts of your pc (perhaps using some of that sub fee money you spared). The first is pretty simple; almost all pc games ever made can be played on a modern pc in a way or another, and in fact even some older console exclusives can be played through emulators. After that, when a console generation passes it usually stops getting any games at all (the 7th generation is a bit of an exception, but the 8th generation isn't even close to being powerful enough to last for as long) whereas a pc has a chance of playing some new games if they aren't too demanding (bf4 is playable on a radeon hd5450, which goes to show how potentially long a decent gpu's usefulness can last if you are content with games running (as they would in a console) and aren't that interested in ultra settings. Of course nobody forces you to upgrade your console and you may very well be content with 3-4 games (although at that point maybe buying a full system for 3-4 games was a bit of a waste), and that's why I usually don't use this argument when discussing consoles.

 

I think you're falling victim of the generalization trap as do some pcmr "partisans". MY gripes with current consoles regard two things: I find MS and Sony aren't offering what they could and I feel should have, especially with the sub fee which is, in my opinion, one of their major "sins" in this regard (even if at a generational switch you don't upgrade and are content with your current games, you still have to pay the fee if you want full functionality of a device you already paid for); and secondly I am frustrated that pc games get held back for the sake of having them run on straight up poor hardware.

I don't argue that consoles are bad for the fun of it. I have precise complaints about them. And if anyone asks me advice on what to buy, I have no doubt in suggesting they build a pc, especially if I know them personally and can even help them troubleshoot the now machine if anything goes wrong. I also find the Wii U to be a better package than either of its competitors, as it's significantly cheaper (if we're accepting a graphical downgrade, at this point t doesn't really matter if we downgrade a bit more as long as games run, right? And honeslty the Wii U is proucing higher resolutions and framerates in a lot of games thanks to their art style) and offers a really compeling library of games that are designed to be played in split screen on the couch and only give their best in such a situation, unlike the other two which just try to be pcs and fail miserably (imo).

 

That said, rules can allow exceptions. I can't account for every possible scenario, and there are certainly some in which a console really is better; but unless it's one of said specific scenarios, as a general rule I personally wouldn't advise ever getting a ps4 or xbone. If your opinion is different, fine, it's your money after all, but just openly engaging people on the other side of the fence without being provoked isn't really the way to go about it...

 

Disclaimer: no offence is intended with the above, if anything I wrote offends you I apologize.

[Solkia]

lol remember when the Xbox One was $600

 

and people bought it anyways

[ObeseWalrus]

I'm on PC for performance, graphics, exclusives, modding and community.

 

Also pcmasterrace is satire that some people takes too seriously.

[Bansh33]

pcmasterrace

 

also as stated above it is taken fairly seriously but i cant deny the fact that i get super irritated when people tell me consoles are better than pc. Like this morning when i got to work i was explaining that i had an awesome day yesterday because i got to drink coronas and play borderlands all day and my coworker was like what do you play ps4 or xbox one and i said pc and he looked at me funny and said thats not real gaming so i explained to him that i enjoy building pc's so it would be dumb for me to build one then not use it considering the amount of money i put in it.

[Fred Castellum]

Guys guys. A PC can do more than just play games. People tend to forget this far too often.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

 

 

I respect your opinion, but still don't understand how someone could think a keyboard is better than a mouse.

 

Oh ok, I thought you were comparing to a controller my bad. But yeah, the way you said it it's logical and all but for example I play Arma 3 and you have a freelook mode so I can only control with the keyboard and if I try driving, boating, flying, with the mouse I can't, It's weird, eh.

[TheSLSAMG]

Oh ok, I thought you were comparing to a controller my bad. But yeah, the way you said it it's logical and all but for example I play Arma 3 and you have a freelook mode so I can only control with the keyboard and if I try driving, boating, flying, with the mouse I can't, It's weird, eh.

Wait, typo on my part. Whoops, I meant controller. Bash on

[MEC-777]

 Yes, but have you ever played a racing game with a KB/Mouse? Fucking nightmare, I tell you. A car's control must be fluid and gradual. A keyboard doesn't offer this range of control, just on/off.

 

Ummm... you do realize gamepad controllers can be used with PCs, right? Like the 360 controller? You're not restricted to using the KB and mouse for PC gaming. That's a huge benefit of PC - use any controller you want. Also, there's these for racing games: 

 

 

More of these wheels are compatible with PC than there are compatible with any console. Plus PC has exclusive serious hard-core racing sim games, where none exist for the consoles. (Forza and GT are not racing sims).

 

 

 

As for the whole PCMR thing, it's getting a bit old. I'm getting tired of all the arguing and bickering. Game on what ever platform you prefer and is most enjoyable to you. The best way to make all this PCMR / console pleb BS go away is to STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!!!

[AnnoyedShelf]

You can argue a G3258 is enough, but I disagree, since Far Cry 4 can't accommodate for Dual Cores, but the Xbox One can play FC4 fine.

In what world is 30fps "fine"?

[TheSLSAMG]

Ummm... you do realize gamepad controllers can be used with PCs, right? Like the 360 controller? You're not restricted to using the KB and mouse for PC gaming. That's a huge benefit of PC - use any controller you want. Also, there's these for racing games: 

 

 

 

 

More of these wheels are compatible with PC than there are compatible with any console. Plus PC has exclusive serious hard-core racing sim games, where none exist for the consoles. (Forza and GT are not racing sims).

 

 

 

As for the whole PCMR thing, it's getting a bit old. I'm getting tired of all the arguing and bickering. Game on what ever platform you prefer and is most enjoyable to you. The best way to make all this PCMR / console pleb BS go away is to STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!!!

I know, yes. I use an Xbox One controller on PC and I would like a G27, but then again every car enthusiast/PC gamer wants one it seems.

 

And Forza and GT are not racing sims, but at least Forza is more fun. I want a laid back racing game with nice graphics, good car selection, an open world and wide customization. Forza Horizon 2 does this, neither The Crew or any of the NFS games do this well. The only reason I want an XB1 is for Forza Horizon 2.

[SurvivorNVL]

Building on a PC is a platform that can last forever.  The initial cost can be justified down the road.  Performance need increase?  Upgrade a few parts, add another GPU.  A PC is an unrestricted platform with limitless potential. When consoles break you send in it and maybe it gets fixed or not and then you buy another, but you're limited to the same hardware, software, bloatware, etc for the next seven or so years and then you get another, limited to a specific experience and in -full- control of what a developer let's you have.  PC's you can mod, you can sometimes even have access to the damn SOURCE CODE(Praise be to John Carmack for we are not worthy), but the idea behind a PC is that it is a platform for -growth-, web-browsing, email, streaming, gaming, benchmarking, and then eventually for some; a livelihood.  A PC may have a larger initial cost, but a -better-, -smoother-, and more user-oriented experience than any locked down console; a PC is just that, Personal Computer.  I think the title comes off too strong, by the way; to call PCMR ignorant is a bit far.  I can understand many are gung-ho and shame consoles constantly, and I understand there is some small percentage of situations where a console is better for -some-, but overall; the PC is the platform most should just go right for, my opinion, but the opinion of many.  It's not ignorance to wish for something you can expand upon, get a return on investment in some cases, and just have -far- more enjoyable of an experience.  Hell as an example; I spent three weeks just looking in to SSD's, headphones, monitors, and mouse sensors - three weeks of research that lead to learning new terms, new ways to go about installation, driving and using these items that I otherwise did not know.  That's another way to advocate for a PC - you learn about what you are using, you're making it all work in a way

[killerdann12]

Just for the shits and giggles #PCMasterRace!!!!!!

[Mr. Chairman]

You still need a computer to be a functioning member of XXI-century society, and don't even argue smartphones.

You try to do some real work on a smartphone (or tablet, I don't care) I dare you.

Point is, if you're getting mediocre gaming device and mediocre work device, why not just combine them?

You get the benefit of less space taken physically, and better performance on both without spending extra.

 

And PC gaming IS cheaper. C'mon, games are half the price of console versions even without things like Steam (whatever reason/season) Sale.

And when you throw Steam Sales, boy, they're almost free. PC Master Race is about making people curious why would they even want a PC.

They want one, they might not know it yet, but they sure as hell want one. It makes all the sense in the world to use PC instead of a console,

and when all the people on consoles realize that, they'll eventually switch. and it will be the day of the doom of the consoles, and we will cherish and praise our Lord and Savior GabeN.

 

And if you still don't know why do we do that "Lord and Savior" thing, it's so everyone who hears that gets interested in cult of that person and what they've done to get religion-level recognition.

'Cause nothing gets people onboard discussion faster than religion

[MattLantis]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/QJyfkL

So $100 more, but so much better then console, don't need to pay for Internet every month. Boom. Plus steam, fucking steam sales alone justify spending the extra hundred