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Windows discrete GPU driver stability tested; but there's a catch

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27 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

As example, I give you the Athlon64 vs Pentium 4.  Admittedly that involved Intel using dirty tricks, but it's just one example of AMD having the objectively superior product, yet failing to gain market and mind share because they lacked the funds to counter Intel's message.  Money can make a significant difference when you're trying to attract new customers (or when trying to draw old customers back).

intel spends quite a bit of money "teaching" the people selling pcs, lying about the competition is the first thing they teach them, i saw this a few years back when i was having such a guy build me a computer, and he also built a p4 computer in 2005 when a athlon would have been better 

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7 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

intel spends quite a bit of money "teaching" the people selling pcs, lying about the competition is the first thing they teach them, i saw this a few years back when i was having such a guy build me a computer, and he also built a p4 computer in 2005 when a athlon would have been better 

In my experience the people selling pcs are just average people who know nothing.  They parrot the Intel is best because that is the narrative consumeers are used to hearing and they don't want to lose a sale. I even heard a salesmen not two weeks ago telling a customer that the iphone suffers more malware than android so they shouldn't buy an iphone.  Just fucking crazy what they will say to shift a product.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

In my experience the people selling pcs are just average people who know nothing.  They parrot the Intel is best because that is the narrative consumeers are used to hearing and they don't want to lose a sale. I even heard a salesmen not two weeks ago telling a customer that the iphone suffers more malware than android so they shouldn't buy an iphone.  Just fucking crazy what they will say to shift a product.

i was refering to a more knowledgeable guy running a pc repair/sale/support business the type of person that should know better than to blindly believe what a company told them about anothers product 

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2 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

i was refering to a more knowledgeable guy running a pc repair/sale/support business the type of person that should know better than to blindly believe what a company told them about anothers product 

I still wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't just saying shit because he wanted to shift more Intel stock, he doesn't know your clued in.  You know like used car salesmen.

 

I over heard a customer in jbhifi (local tech store)  demanding there new laptop only be Intel because they were told AMD CPU's can't do what intel can,  why would any salesperson risk losing a sale arguing/educating with a customer on that when they have plenty of Intel stock to sell?

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Knowledge can tend to be very specific.

 

For example- a guy may know how to build and repair PCs, but he may not know anything about performance or what to recommend for a particular use case (including AMD vs Intel). Most people don't read enough to be educated on this.

 

Or a guy may have been building intel systems for years so he is comfortable with that and will recommend it because he has never tried building a modern powerful AMD systems, so it's easy for him to repeat some myth rather than looking at data or trying it out himself and figuring out what's good.

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7 hours ago, cj09beira said:

intel spends quite a bit of money "teaching" the people selling pcs, lying about the competition is the first thing they teach them, i saw this a few years back when i was having such a guy build me a computer, and he also built a p4 computer in 2005 when a athlon would have been better 

This sounds more like the guy didn't know what he was talking about rather than Intel indoctrinating salespeople. If it's a mom and pop shop, why would Intel care about them? That's small fry. Intel went after the big system builders like Dell and such back then.

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On 7/16/2018 at 4:08 PM, Dan Castellaneta said:

This is interesting.

Hopefully AMD commissioning the test didn't really affect anything. I hold that it could, but I digress.

Without having read anything in or about the study myself, you can easily see how it might be biased, even if not necessarily "rigged" or "false".

 

For example: they could have cherry picked certain tests in which they knew they would be more stable than Nvidia drivers.

 

If not, good for AMD for having more stable drivers. I wish them all the best, and we badly need some competition in the GPU market right now.

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20 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

What?

You just described why the overhead is lower.

Its not lower, just shared between multiple threads. That might also cause a higher CPU Load because you have MORE Overhead because of synchronisation between the cores.

 

20 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Conroe and Penryn had quad cores as well. When was that?

Conro and Penryn were Dual Core Dies. There were no Quad Cores until Nehalem.

At the Time Intel sold Multi Chip modules like Threadripper to the Consumer.

 

17 hours ago, rrubberr said:

My two experiences with AMD cards ended in one catching on fire (probably not driver related ;) but a testament to quality nonetheless) and the other being so unstable in compute workloads that I had to sell it.

Why the hell don't you fix your problems with AMD Cards?! Ever heard of RMA? 
With Intel and nVidia you fix the Problem. With AMD you don't and complain about how awful AMD is...

 

SRYSLY?! 

 

Though PSU/Memory issues might also have been possible but we will never know, because you never actually fixed the Problems you had...

 

11 hours ago, Jito463 said:

As example, I give you the Athlon64 vs Pentium 4.  Admittedly that involved Intel using dirty tricks, but it's just one example of AMD having the objectively superior product, yet failing to gain market and mind share because they lacked the funds to counter Intel's message.  Money can make a significant difference when you're trying to attract new customers (or when trying to draw old customers back).

AMD Radeon HD7970 was another example.

The Chip was good and had +50% Memory, yet most People still bought the nVidia Card, although you can even live with the 7970 today while the GTX 680 fell far behind and competes with Pitcairn right now...

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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2 hours ago, maartendc said:

For example: they could have cherry picked certain tests in which they knew they would be more stable than Nvidia drivers.

 

If not, good for AMD for having more stable drivers. I wish them all the best, and we badly need some competition in the GPU market right now.

They haven't. You'd know that if you'd taken a look at the actual document. It is mentioned about 2 dozend times what they use for this test.

It was 

  • CRASH from Microsof's Windows Hardware Lab Kit

So no cherry picking, quite the opposite.

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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2 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

Lol, and RMA does not change the fact that the card exploded into flames. With Intel and Nvidia the products don't catch fire ;).

That's a lie.

Because everyone uses the same Standard Components!

And that is what "caught fire" in your case -> A Standard "Jellybean" Component from a 3rd Party.  A MOSFET. Those things tend to fail short and under the right situation they burn. 

 

And I have seen exactly that happen on my Gigabyte X79-UD5 Board, that had a shorted MOSFET...

 

And since you mentioned catching fire, you sure you didn't mistake it for an EVGA GTX 1080???

 

And there is also the Case of the Overvoltaged VRM Controller on some nVidia Cards to allow for a higher Clockrates and so on...

 

 

 

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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On 7/16/2018 at 3:36 PM, Vode said:

Nvidia had a driver that actually killed GPUs so this doesn‘t suprize me. 

 

But seriously AMDs driver development during the last 2 years has been stellar, especially with the new Radeon settings user interface. It‘s superb. 

 

They stepped up their game from the Catalyst days.

Yeah I have had more issues with Nvidia in the past 2 years than AMD now with drivers

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 hours ago, rrubberr said:

Hasn't happened to me :P.

 

It has happened to me with AMD.

 

I did preface this by saying "personal experiences obviously differ," no?

How dare you have a personal experience that makes AMD look bad, you must be lying.  liar liar GPU on fire!!!!  :P

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah I have had more issues with Nvidia in the past 2 years than AMD now with drivers

I got "Graphics driver stropped unexpectedly..." kind of messages all the time with my Nvidia card on Windows 7. Since I got a Fury X recently it's gone. :P

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8 hours ago, rrubberr said:

Hasn't happened to me :P.

 

It has happened to me with AMD.

 

I did preface this by saying "personal experiences obviously differ," no?

Prefacing it doesn't mean you get away with making generalizations. Wanna read your posts again?
 

11 hours ago, rrubberr said:

Lol, and RMA does not change the fact that the card exploded into flames. With Intel and Nvidia the products don't catch fire ;).


The server that I had driver issues with had run stable for over a year straight, it was not memory issues.

The card had access to over 2kw of power. Everything you can imagine was tried, believe it or not when you sink $1000 into a card people do tend to try to make it work. 

 

1

There's a difference in saying "With Intel and Nvidia the products don't catch fire", as compared to "I've not had Intel and Nvidia products catch fire". Subtle difference, but that changes what you're implying: That AMD products are prone to catching fire.

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1 hour ago, Tenelia said:

Prefacing it doesn't mean you get away with making generalizations. Wanna read your posts again?
 

There's a difference in saying "With Intel and Nvidia the products don't catch fire", as compared to "I've not had Intel and Nvidia products catch fire". Subtle difference, but that changes what you're implying: That AMD products are prone to catching fire.

When someone prefixes their statement with "in my two experiences" it is implied that they are only talking about Intel and nvidia products they've owned.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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11 hours ago, rrubberr said:

Hasn't happened to me :P.

Good for you, that doesn't change the fact that it isn't AMDs Fault, it is nobodys fault, when thet happens (well, except for shitty designs and manufacturing errors like that EVGA Card.


And the "go up in Flames" I had with an Intel Board made by Gigabyte.

Do I go around flaming them? No because I know and accept that that is something that will happen on either side and you can't blame the Chipmaker for that.

And do you know what? That is what the warranty is for and the whole reason of why it exists!

 

Quote

I did preface this by saying "personal experiences obviously differ," no?

Did I mention all the negative experience I had with Intel and nVidia?! no?

Because it doesn't matter and your "experience" was just that you had bad luck. 

 

Yes, and? Shit happens.And MOSFETs tend to die rather violently, especially if you don't have good protection with your PC.

So from what you descripe, it looks like this:

http://www.overclock.net/forum/31-power-supplies/944707-why-single-rail-not-better-than-multi-rail.html

 

Although I know of this case, do I go around and flame/bash EVGA for that?

No, because its not really their fault.

 

The fire in this Case was caused by the Powersupply! And its highly likely that that was also the case with you. That is why you don't use 2kW Single Rail PSU, if you can avoid it. Because you NEED OCP to prevent such things from happening. 

 

 

So let me make it clear for you:
The Graphics card died because a MOSFET failed and because the PSU didn't switch off, it caused a Fire!

 

"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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