Is Apple's behavior ILLEGAL?? - iMac Pro Repair Pt. 2

[Jtalk4456]

15 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

1. do you have multiple displays? if i click on the search icon on my taskbar on my second display, my taskbar dissapears and then comes back.... 

if i maximize some programs i get a white bar at the top of my display. 

2. search is broken. 7z returns nothing, but 7zi returns the result for 7zip. 

do i need to go on?

 

14 hours ago, firelighter487 said:

3. i don't use search unless i can't find something.

4. with Mac you do need to restart but it doesn't force you to in the way Windows does. you get reminders but i've never had a Mac restart itself to do an update. 

5. the 2 apps that do the bar at the top thing are spotify and iTunes. do you have either of those installed? i want to know if it's not just me because that happens on my pc and it happened on my Windows laptop before i sold it. 

6. yeah that's very annoying. and not being able to change wallpapers for each display is another nice one. it has to be the same wallpaper on all screens.. ugh

1. Yes, and no i haven't ever had that issue

2. Refer to 3. I don't use search really ever, so if it's broken, I don't know about it

3. Refer to 2.

4. You can control when it does stuff and be diligent to make sure you're not working on a school paper when it restarts. And for those who will argue "why should I have to watch and be diligent with my computer?". I would argue that anyone using a computer should be diligent about a various set of things from software updates, to safe browsing, watching and listening for hardware issues and paying attention well enough to notice suspicious behavior and prevent or stop malware infections. Is microsoft's update system inconvenient? yes. But if you're being diligent about your computer as you should for other reasons, it's not hard to get around and work with. Having said that, I would like the home version of windows to have an option to delay updates for 30-45 days to prevent the issue with upgrade bugs.

5. Nope. I use spotify on my phone and I will never have itunes, it's a terrible program that takes up vast resources  just to play music. It's horribly optimized and I will never put this on any computer I own.

6. First off this isn't an issue, you CAN do that

https://www.hanselman.com/blog/HowDoISetDifferentWallpapersForEachMonitorInWindows.aspx

Also can you put separate wallpapers on displays with a mac? I've never seen a dual screen mac with different wallpapers, though to be fair I've not been looking

Finally, I personally wouldn't really want to do that, but either way you CAN do that in windows so have fun

[Jtalk4456]

43 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Guys, Linus is in Canada, not the U.S. The U.S. FTC has no authority in Canada.

Some one mentioned that, because Apple is headquartered in California, the FTC ruling applies everywhere. That isn't true. If a company is making products to be sold exclusively in a country that doesn't have laws or rulings similar to the U.S. FTC, Apple can continue the practice as long as those products are shipped to and sold in that country.

I see your point, and don't know the law well enough to argue against you, but could you provide some backing for this so I can read into it? Also was the iMAC pro sold exclusively in Canada? This doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell.

[Egg-Roll]

21 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

 

 

 

 

Guys, Linus is in Canada, not the U.S. The U.S. FTC has no authority in Canada.

 

Some one mentioned that, because Apple is headquartered in California, the FTC ruling applies everywhere. That isn't true. If a company is making products to be sold exclusively in a country that doesn't have laws or rulings similar to the U.S. FTC, Apple can continue the practice as long as those products are shipped to and sold in that country.

My complaint that you quoted applies to Canadians as well because Apple decided to charge out nearly/over 2.5x the cost of the actual parts pushing the cost over the price of a new one, worst yet they failed to even give a reason why. So while yes the FTC is USA only my comment still holds true, same with how Apple will likely find a way of bypassing it.

 

The fact Apple demands a 2.5x cost for a few parts should be in itself illegal for repairs.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

5 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

I see your point, and don't know the law well enough to argue against you, but could you provide some backing for this so I can read into it? Also was the iMAC pro sold exclusively in Canada? This doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell.

The "law" was already quoted in this thread. Also, based on everything I've read so far, a product line doesn't have to be manufactured exclusively for shipment to a country other than the U.S. to be exempt from laws of the U.S. As long as a product that is sold in the U.S. doesn't have stickers, literature, etc. implying a that removing a sticker will void a warranty, the company can still use those stickers, etc. on products being shipped out the country for sale in that country, even if it is the same product.

 

Using the RV industry as an example, RVs manufactured for sale in the U.S have to adhere to certain standards. Canada has different standards for RVs. While some RV manufacturers will build RVs that will meet the standards of both countries (Canada's are more stringent; I wish the U.S. would adopt the same standards), most have separate production runs for RVs that meet U.S standards and ones that meet Canadian standards, even though they are otherwise the same RV, just to cut their manufacturing costs.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

20 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

My complaint that you quoted applies to Canadians as well because Apple decided to charge out nearly/over 2.5x the cost of the actual parts pushing the cost over the price of a new one, worst yet they failed to even give a reason why. So while yes the FTC is USA only my comment still holds true, same with how Apple will likely find a way of bypassing it.

 

The fact Apple demands a 2.5x cost for a few parts should be in itself illegal for repairs.

First, I didn't quote you; I only mentioned someone had said that.

 

While I fully agree that Apples practices are despicable, your comment was not true, despite your intent. As far as Apple finding a way to bypass the FTC's belated enforcement of Magnuson-Moss, I have a feeling that won't last much longer. Apple has lost at least one lawsuit against a repair shop for making "unauthorized" repairs.

[Jtalk4456]

7 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

The "law" was already quoted in this thread. Also, based on everything I've read so far, a product line doesn't have to be manufactured exclusively for shipment to a country other than the U.S. to be exempt from laws of the U.S. As long as a product that is sold in the U.S. doesn't have stickers, literature, etc. implying a that removing a sticker will void a warranty, the company can still use those stickers, etc. on products being shipped out the country for sale in that country, even if it is the same product.

 

Using the RV industry as an example, RVs manufactured for sale in the U.S have to adhere to certain standards. Canada has different standards for RVs. While some RV manufacturers will build RVs that will meet the standards of both countries (Canada's are more stringent; I wish the U.S. would adopt the same standards), most have separate production runs for RVs that meet U.S standards and ones that meet Canadian standards, even though they are otherwise the same RV, just to cut their manufacturing costs.

Maybe I'm missing it, but I didn't see anything referencing the law not extending outside the US even when the product was made here. Do you have a link to the specific provision on coutry of sale vs country of manufaturing? Also outside of that argument you pointed out

Quote

(Canada's are more stringent; I wish the U.S. would adopt the same standards)

With reference to the same kind of scenario, even if this is Legal behavior as you have defended, do you believe the behavior is ethical or anti-consumer at all? Should this behavior be allowed in your opinion?

[Amazonsucks]

21 hours ago, nicklmg said:

 

Buy workstation PCs on Amazon: http://geni.us/lLfWx

Apple using slaves who would rather jump to their death should be ilkegal.

 

Wtf is that link to Amazon slave labour camps for though? That should be illegal along with Apple FOXCONN SUICIDE slavery.

[Egg-Roll]

5 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

First, I didn't quote you; I only mentioned someone had said that.

 

While I fully agree that Apples practices are despicable, your comment was not true, despite your intent. As far as Apple finding a way to bypass the FTC's belated enforcement of Magnuson-Moss, I have a feeling that won't last much longer. Apple has lost at least one lawsuit against a repair shop for making "unauthorized" repairs.

You did in fact quote me, whether or not your intention was to be directly pointed towards me or not you still did.

 

Which part of my comment was untrue? The fact Apple is unwilling to repair something within a reasonable price or something else?

 

Also Apple is Apple they will find a way, or spend millions in court fees to fight it, because it would become unprofitable to lose. If they do lose I can see the new iPhones becoming stronger and less likely to break on the first drop...

[Lady Fitzgerald]

11 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

You did in fact quote me, whether or not your intention was to be directly pointed towards me or not you still did.

 

Which part of my comment was untrue? The fact Apple is unwilling to repair something within a reasonable price or something else?

 

Also Apple is Apple they will find a way, or spend millions in court fees to fight it, because it would become unprofitable to lose. If they do lose I can see the new iPhones becoming stronger and less likely to break on the first drop...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quote I merely mentioned someone had said something, noit actually quoted it.

 

You basically said that because Apple was based in California, the FTC ruling applied to products sent to Canada for sale there, which is not true (again, the U.S. FTC has no jurisdiction in Canada). You may have not intended it that way, but that is how it was perceived.

 

The fact that Apple is a bunch of cheap b...Apple is unwilling to repair something withn a reasonable price is not what is being discussed. I also agree Apple will fight it--they have been doing so for sometime now--but that doesn't mean they will continue to win (they already have lost some cases).

 

 

[Ashleyyyy]

1 hour ago, Jtalk4456 said:

Also can you put separate wallpapers on displays with a mac? I've never seen a dual screen mac with different wallpapers, though to be fair I've not been looking

it's been a while since i used dual monitors with a Mac, but i believe it will open wallpaper preferences on each display, so you can pick individually. 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

45 minutes ago, Jtalk4456 said:

Maybe I'm missing it, but I didn't see anything referencing the law not extending outside the US even when the product was made here. Do you have a link to the specific provision on coutry of sale vs country of manufaturing? Also outside of that argument you pointed out

...

With reference to the same kind of scenario, even if this is Legal behavior as you have defended, do you believe the behavior is ethical or anti-consumer at all? Should this behavior be allowed in your opinion?

U.S. law has to specifically state something is illegal for it to be illegal. An example is motorcycle lane splitting in California. It isn't legal but, since there is no law prohibiting it, it isn't illegal. The only time LEO addresses lane splitting is when a motorcycle does it at an unsafe speed because it then can be considered reckless driving, which is illegal. Another example, in Arizona this time, has to do with using a continuous left turn for, when making a left turn onto a street in heavy, as a place to pull into when traffic from the left is clear, then pulling into the lane of traffic coming from the right when it is clear enough to do so. With one exception, it is not illegal to do so and the only laws that will apply is when you travel any distance in that lane or obstruct another driver from using the continuous left turn lane for its intended purpose. The one exceptiuon is in the City of Mesa, which has passed a law specifically making that use of the left turn lane illegal (it's not a well known law and apparently not heavily enforced. I learned about it from a friend who had to go to traffic school for a ticket she got).

 

Since FTC jurisdiction is in the U.S., what a company sells outside of the U.S. is not under FTC jurisdiction.

 

I'm not defending Apples behavior; it is vile and despicable. I was referring only to the legality. At one time, slavery was legal in the use; does that mean it was a good thing?

 

Th RV example I gave was to poit nout that manufactures in the U.S. do not have to make an entire product line conform to both the standards of the U.S. and those of another country they are selling their products. My comment about I wished that the U.S. RV standards were as stringent as Canadian standards has to do with the RVs currently being manuafctured for sale in the U.S. having dramatically dropped in quality with the current boom in RV sales, someting more stringent standards woulkd prevent.

[Jtalk4456]

21 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

it's been a while since i used dual monitors with a Mac, but i believe it will open wallpaper preferences on each display, so you can pick individually. 

ok but you can do that on windows, so no worries there at least

[Egg-Roll]

7 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

You basically said that because Apple was based in California, the FTC ruling applied to products sent to Canada for sale there, which is not true (again, the U.S. FTC has no jurisdiction in Canada). You may have not intended it that way, but that is how it was perceived.

 

I actually never said that, the FTC part was also preceded with a period instead of a comma which could be perceived as either a continuation of the same topic or a different one, so Yes you could take it as I made it sound the FTC worked within canada however assuming I thought the FTC applied here because they are based in the USA where as Linus is in Canada is usually something I suggest people to avoid doing.

 

Esp since I know Apple Canada is located in Toronto Ontario and is a completely different entity for tax and legal purposes to the US parent company.

 

I think the better question here is if Linus bought it in the USA would it be covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. 

[nicklmg]

17 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Easier yes, but I would say the videos have paid for at least the repairs on the youtube views 

https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/linustechtips/videos/mostviewed

 

Still no reason to deliberately break a expensive product, because you're not Mr. Beast. Tho this video still puzzles me...

Btw does Linus have this unit still? If so would be nice if he did a follow up video lol... It is the most viewed video after all...

Sure, we're probably profitable on the 2 videos we've made so far. But we're FAR less profitable on those videos than we would have been on typical videos where we didn't have to spend thousands of dollars on replacement parts, flying people to different cities to try to get this fixed, shipping and driving the computer to multiple shops to no avail, etc...

 

No, the firetruck was property of NCIX.

17 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

 

I'm not gonna pretend windows is even close to perfect, but honestly, I've hardly ever had any problems or bugs with it. Also Kinguin sells it much cheaper. I've heard varying arguments on the legality, but being so well known, i feel if they were being illegal microsoft would've stopped them by now

Sites like Kinguin & G2A aren't technically illegal, but they're almost entirely based on purchases made with stolen credit cards, illegitimate keys, and inter-market pricing (eg. people buying a game or software service in a low-income country, as the pricing is determined to allow people there to actually afford to use it, and selling to a high-income country where there's a significant price delta).

 

If they were based out of NA, they would've been shut down ages ago. The only reason they remain in operation is because of their own local laws and regulations.

16 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

To be fair Linus said in the video that there were places available to fix, but not locally. I don't see how that situation is different at all to mine. 

 

This isn't a very fair practice by Apple's part at all really, which is my opinion. It's not good enough for a product a lot of people pay good money for, which should be covered by law for repair and warranty (goodness knows the outrage if it was broken without the warranty void - unacceptable from a company that should know better). 

 

There will be many nonconstructive comments (like mine i admit) in this thread, and thats just the fact of a forum that this happens. It does seem in the video that Linus is just repeating much stuff that has already been said. I don't really have a problem with him making a video on a topic thats important to him at all, it's his job. Slapping on a clickbait and then knowing that there will be all these comments and attracting attention, it's a bit much. Sure he covers some important aspects from his points of view, and rightly calls out people who misinterpret his views but it's a bit far. Everyone fails sometimes and if I responded to everyone who criticised me, then I could be here a while. 

 

What would be better for a video is a clear view of what is the situation and what will happen. Some articles (as in the video) claimed it would cost too much to repair anyway. Linus disagrees (as it should be) but then got quoted more than it would cost for a new unit to repair. Somehow through connections he bought a new logic board and CPU + RAM for ~2k. Theres a lot of mud in the video. 

 

It is also sad that not much will come of this. Apple's target audience is people who look at a Mac and see a nice sleek, robust design. The average consumer. If you aren't into tech you see the Mac as a very well designed tool. It has a great aluminium chassis most companies don't have. It looks very futuristic and should last you a long time. These are the people who will lose, these people don't have connections as Linus does. 

Except that the places that were "available to fix" were expecting to charge us more than the computer was worth due to Apple's horrible policies.

 

This video is in no way clickbait lol. Apple is seriously walking a dangerous line here, legally speaking. We're not the ones to take them on, but someone will some day, and it won't be cut-and-dried.

 

That's the thing though - with Apple's policies, sure it costs more to repair than the machine itself costs. But that's with a $3,000 mark-up on the logic board. This shit is criminal. The point of the video was to prove that no, under a normal company's policies, it would not be more expensive to repair than to buy a new one.

 

You seem to have entirely missed the point of the video.

10 hours ago, mrchow19910319 said:

youtube drama 101....

 

look i am not saying, what apple did was 100% right, but just like @CTR said. they have the right to refuse to fix your shit if you messed up. (tearing off the sticker and such) 

Actually under US law, they don't have the right to refuse that.

2 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Guys, Linus is in Canada, not the U.S. The U.S. FTC has no authority in Canada.

 

Some one mentioned that, because Apple is headquartered in California, the FTC ruling applies everywhere. That isn't true. If a company is making products to be sold exclusively in a country that doesn't have laws or rulings similar to the U.S. FTC, Apple can continue the practice as long as those products are shipped to and sold in that country.

Canada essentially parrots US law in probably 85% of cases. As it is a case law system, if we were to take this to court and cite that FTC ruling as evidence, we would PROBABLY have a pretty good chance of having the courts take our side. It's all about precedent, and using evidence to set that precedent when the precedent is not yet available.

[samcool55]

17 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Still no reason to deliberately break a expensive product, because you're not Mr. Beast. Tho this video still puzzles me...

 

I was already subbed to LTT when this video aired and for some reason i know the story behind it

 

Arctic hobby is a part of Arctic cooling, might sound familiar to you. They reached out and asked Linus (or NCIX, it was the same back then) to give them a hand and make video's about it because back then Arctic hobby was brand new and basically had to start from 0. So they helped and this is the result.

 

LTT wasn't the only one giving them a hand, kitguru did it too but in the form of an interview.

https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/featured-tech-reviews/faith/arctic-hobby-remote-control-discover-your-inner-kid/

 

I doubt they did well tho because i don't think they exist anymore.

[m2234323]

i get the people  that use apple because it work better  my dad who still have a very old mac mini just use it for webrozing  and do not  care if it take 1 second more say it is not worth the mony for faster pc   you should see his desk harder drive all over the place he do photo and video work and just deal with the laggy 

same with the old iPhone 4s 

[Egg-Roll]

14 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

Sure, we're probably profitable on the 2 videos we've made so far. But we're FAR less profitable on those videos than we would have been on typical videos where we didn't have to spend thousands of dollars on replacement parts, flying people to different cities to try to get this fixed, shipping and driving the computer to multiple shops to no avail, etc...

 

No, the firetruck was property of NCIX.

Considering you're not pulling in 10x+ more views than normal I wouldn't be surprised if in 2 weeks time you come back and say it's losing you money  Tho if you were pulling in 10x+ it could quickly become more profitable to troll Apple  So maybe it's for the best.

 

Aw, that's too bad

 

9 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

I doubt they did well tho because i don't think they exist anymore.

Great bit of info

Also found a site based in HK using their logo tho can't find it anywhere... Tho amazon does sell similar toys  Mostly construction based...

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00ZWO8AC4/

[nicklmg]

13 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

I doubt they did well tho because i don't think they exist anymore.

Yeah I think it's super dead lol. I think it was just a passion project for someone internally there and it (allegedly? idk) lost beaucoup bucks.

5 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Considering you're not pulling in 10x+ more views than normal I wouldn't be surprised if in 2 weeks time you come back and say it's losing you money  Tho if you were pulling in 10x+ it could quickly become more profitable to troll Apple  So maybe it's for the best.

I mean, don't get me wrong... getting the mainstream exposure is always a nice plus. But this series of videos has taken so many resources that we probably could've shot an extra Scrapyard Wars or something of that magnitude with the amount of time & money spent on it  

[Ashleyyyy]

1 hour ago, Jtalk4456 said:

ok but you can do that on windows, so no worries there at least

not as intuitive though.. 

[Ashleyyyy]

2 hours ago, Jtalk4456 said:

You can control when it does stuff and be diligent to make sure you're not working on a school paper when it restarts. And for those who will argue "why should I have to watch and be diligent with my computer?". I would argue that anyone using a computer should be diligent about a various set of things from software updates, to safe browsing, watching and listening for hardware issues and paying attention well enough to notice suspicious behavior and prevent or stop malware infections. Is microsoft's update system inconvenient? yes. But if you're being diligent about your computer as you should for other reasons, it's not hard to get around and work with. Having said that, I would like the home version of windows to have an option to delay updates for 30-45 days to prevent the issue with upgrade bugs.

i shouldn't be as cautious of updates as i am with malware. and i shouldn't have to work around the OS, it should work with me.

[TechyBen]

17 minutes ago, nicklmg said:

Yeah I think it's super dead lol. I think it was just a passion project for someone internally there and it (allegedly? idk) lost beaucoup bucks.

I mean, don't get me wrong... getting the mainstream exposure is always a nice plus. But this series of videos has taken so many resources that we probably could've shot an extra Scrapyard Wars or something of that magnitude with the amount of time & money spent on it  

[Emphasis mine]

That alone is unforgivable Apple... unforgivable! 

[nicklmg]

6 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

[Emphasis mine]

That alone is unforgivable Apple... unforgivable! 

Don't worry, we have one coming very soon anyway...  

[Lady Fitzgerald]

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

I actually never said that, the FTC part was also preceded with a period instead of a comma which could be perceived as either a continuation of the same topic or a different one, so Yes you could take it as I made it sound the FTC worked within canada however assuming I thought the FTC applied here because they are based in the USA where as Linus is in Canada is usually something I suggest people to avoid doing...

I'll concede I may have misread a comma for a period. I'm too tired to look it up.

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

...I think the better question here is if Linus bought it in the USA would it be covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. 

Excellent question. Add to that, would Magnuson-Moss apply if a warranty claim would need to be applied or in the U.S. for in Canada or the U.S. (keep in mind that Linus wasn't making a warranty claim). Of course, Apple would fight it in court.

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, samcool55 said:

I was already subbed to LTT when this video aired and for some reason i know the story behind it

 

Arctic hobby is a part of Arctic cooling, might sound familiar to you. They reached out and asked Linus (or NCIX, it was the same back then) to give them a hand and make video's about it because back then Arctic hobby was brand new and basically had to start from 0. So they helped and this is the result.

 

LTT wasn't the only one giving them a hand, kitguru did it too but in the form of an interview.

https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/featured-tech-reviews/faith/arctic-hobby-remote-control-discover-your-inner-kid/

 

I doubt they did well tho because i don't think they exist anymore.

never saw that video before but it gave me an idea! Have a toy  firetruck with a man on top of the ladder holding a hose, but the hose is actually watercooling tube and the truck is actually a reservoir and pump. And the "fire" hes trying to put out is the hot computer and you see the water getting shot into the case. This wouldn't be hard to achieve by having a non transparent tubing up to the firefighter, then a coupler, then clear tubing from there into the pc and blue watercooling liquid. The hardest part would be retrofitting a reservoir and pump into the toy firetruck, though i'm sure someone smarter than I could do it with minimal effort, or even 3d print a different firetruck out of metal with the screwholes and spacing perfect for the equipment

[Jtalk4456]

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

i shouldn't be as cautious of updates as i am with malware. and i shouldn't have to work around the OS, it should work with me.

Agree to disagree, Updates for any software can cause problems as has happened with windows, apple and android alike. So for me being cautious regarding updates is a necessity in this day. Also like i said it's not that inconvenient. You just set active hours and be generally aware of your computer as anyone on this forum should be. 

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

not as intuitive though.. 

really? I find it extremely intuitive to click "apply to screen 2". Seems easy as dirt to me, but to each their own i suppose