surface lite [UPDATE] A new FCC filing was spotted about a new Microsoft Surface tablet that costs $400 and with Pentium inside. OpenCL benchmarks are now leaked.

[captain_to_fire]

Sources: Ars Technica, Winfuture.de (German site), FCC

 

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*image above is a Surface 3 from 2015 with Windows 8.1 and Intel Atom inside (x7-Z8700, 4c/4t)

 

Earlier this year, there were reports that Microsoft plans to make a new attempt at producing a low-price Surface tablet. Some new FCC filings spotted by WinFuture suggest that this tablet does indeed exist and that Microsoft has sought the necessary regulatory approval to bring it to market.

 

The FCC paperwork doesn't include pictures or full specs of the device—those parts are kept confidential for now—but it does disclose a few details that give some hints about the new device.

If they're going to price the base model $400, how much compromise is it considering that Intel's latest offerings like the Pentium Silver N5000 has a recommended customer price of $161? https://ark.intel.com/products/128990/Intel-Pentium-Silver-N5000-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-2_70-GHz

 

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Pentium Gold and Pentium Silver

The "price downgrade" on the new, smaller Surface is made possible by the internal features. Who hoped that he would receive a device equipped with an Intel Core M CPU or even a Core i chip - quite apart from an ARM-based model - looks at the surface of the "Lite" tube. Instead, Microsoft relies again on Intel technology in the form of the Pentium Gold and Pentium Silver chips of its large semiconductor supplier. 

Because Intel So far only a limited range of such chips offers, one can already make a reasonably clear picture of which SoCs should be used. The cheaper models of the smaller Surface tablet will most likely come with the Intel Pentium Silver N5000, a four-core x86 SoC from the "Gemini Lake" family running at 1.1 gigahertz base clock, and up to 2 when needed , 7 GHz can clock up. 

Judging from the leaked specs above, it's definitely not aimed for the power user but for people who just browse the web and do spreadsheets and documents because who needs to run virtual machines on a passively cooled, low TDP CPU? I'm guessing that instead of using PCIE SSDs like a M.2 SATA, they're going with UFS 2.1 which is good or eMMC which might is just okay for a budget Windows 10 tablet. I just hope that Microsoft puts 8GB of RAM because Windows 10 is such a memory hog including its own applications.

 

*Just the tip, you can revert back to the Windows 7 Photo Viewer just by tweaking the registry. Don't worry it's malware free. Activate-Windows-Photo-Viewer-on-Windows-10.zip

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The system is using a driver for a discrete Qualcomm Atheros Wi-Fi/Bluetooth module. The use of a separate chip makes it all but certain that the new machine has an Intel processor—if it had a Qualcomm ARM chip then the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth would be integrated into the system-on-chip and use a different driver.

 

The power supply is also listed as being a 24W unit. Microsoft has used 24W power supplies in the past, but current Surface Pros use 36W parts. This is consistent with both the low expected price—$400—and smaller 10-inch screen.

Since they're pricing it at $400 it looks like that they're aiming once again at the iPad by arguing that a Surface lite is a real computer with a real x86/64 OS. 

 

Base model Surface lite: $400

Surface Pen: $100

Type Cover: $160

Total: $660

 

128GB model 9.7" iPad (Wi-Fi only): $430

Apple Pencil: $100

Logitech Slim Combo with backlit BT Keyboard: $120

Total: $650

 

Well the difference is only $10. I'm surprised Microsoft didn't used the Snapdragon 1000 chip that was actually aimed for laptops but with twice the TDP at 12W. How much Qualcomm would charge for the SD1000? 

I just hope Microsoft's offerings will be competitive when it comes to price because they're the only company aside from Apple that has given a damn about tablets at the moment (Samsung still makes Android tablets but I don't think they're advertising it that much) Snapdragon 835 tablets that run on Windows 10S kinda sucks. Personally, the tablet experience with Windows 10 is a mixed bag. It's a good desktop OS but quite half assed as a tablet OS.

 

[UPDATE]

 

Source: MSPoweruser. ZDNet

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Apart from that, the device will also have 4 GB DDR3 RAM clocked at 932 MHz. The Surface device will come installed with Windows 10 Pro (64-bit) out of the box.

Microsoft is targetting students and educators with the low-cost Surface device. According to the sources, the device will cost around $400 without keyboard and stylus and will be available in late 2018. Microsoft is said to be working on cheaper accessories for the cheap tablet, to make a bundle more affordable.

Well that's disappointing that they're only packing in 4GB of RAM. Some of you might say that the 9.7" iPad only has 2GB RAM. That's true until it's realized that iOS is a much lighter OS than full blown Windows 10 Pro. As I've said in the original OP, Windows 10 is bloated af. They're definitely targeting Apple's iPad especially in the education sector which is not the first time. While OpenCL performance is good, that's not the only metric that decides whether a computer works well or not. Remember that the core i5-7Y54 used by the 2017 MacBook supports turbo boost and virtualization. Intel Pentium Silver and Gold doesn't.

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Earlier benchmarks for 'OEMTX EV1' and 'OEMTX EV1 LTE' are present on Geekbench benchmarks too, with the non-LTE model using an Intel Pentium 4415Y while the LTE model uses the Pentium 4410Y.

 

Microsoft is expected to announce the 10-inch Surface lineup in the second half of 2018, which is likely to happen now the devices have passed through the FCC.

The devices are said to feature rounded edges rather than the square corners of the Surface Pro. They'll feature a USB-C port and kickstand and will weigh less than the Surface Pro but will have a significantly shorter battery life.

I already know how Microsoft will market their new tablet. It's the same marketing technique when they're selling the first Surface RT but this time they're going to argue that you can do more with a tablet with proper I/O like USB-C and a full blown OS like Windows 10 Pro. 

And here's my personal bias, Windows 10 as a touch first OS is trying way too hard to be everything at once.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by captain_to_fire
new updates including benchmarks

[Mooshi]

Would be perfect for the 2D artist who doesn't want to take out a loan for a Wacom Cintiq.

 

I'd pay that extra $10 to be able to use actual software aimed at 2D artists (Clip Studio and Sai).

[GoodBytes]

The system definitely aims at the education market.

The Snapdragon 1000 is not out yet, and the previous version, the 850, might also not be ready in time before school is released and I don't think Microsoft wants to enter the educational market with a system where it might need to run many Win32 and not provide the best experience possible. In other words, they want to come in with a more guaranteed splash, than a system that evaluated to be ok, but the iPad is better, type of situation.

 

I am sure many student in College]/University will also get it.

[Alex Atkin UK]

Aren't Intel chips still WAY faster than ARM though?  So it makes perfect sense in that respect.

 

I really wish someone would make a half-decent 2-in-1 at that price that didn't have a garbage LCD.   Surface isn't practical for using on your lap.

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Aren't Intel chips still WAY faster than ARM though?  So it makes perfect sense in that respect.

It depends on many things like IPC, cache and TDP. 

[Alex Atkin UK]

That's the thing though isn't it, never heard of Qualcomm etc developing chips at such high TDP as Intel.  They would rather focus on the lucrative phone market.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Aren't Intel chips still WAY faster than ARM though?  So it makes perfect sense in that respect.

 

I really wish someone would make a half-decent 2-in-1 at that price that didn't have a garbage LCD.   Surface isn't practical for using on your lap.

It is difficult to compare benchmarks between ARM and Intel, as they are no ARM64 based benchmarks for Windows. If you do try and run one, you'll go through the x86 Win32 emulation, which means performance will be dropped significantly, especially with the 835 which is currently the officially released chip that can run Windows 10 (officially with Support).

 

VISUALLY, it is said that running ARM64 native programs on the 835, runs like you are using a Core i3 mobile laptop (assuming both have a similar performance SSD). When you run Win32 x86 program, you are down to Atom performance. Still runs fine, but don't expect to run Photoshop and do complex image filters and big brushes and works with large images.

 

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

That's the thing though isn't it, never heard of Qualcomm etc developing chips at such high TDP as Intel.  They would rather focus on the lucrative phone market.

Qualcomm wants to enter the PC market. They are in good partnership with Microsoft for a number of years.

The coming up 850 is the 845 but with teaks at the hardware level to deliver better x86 emulation performance, or so it is said. Claimed to deliver 30% increase. The Snapdragon 1000, is aimed to actually need a heatsink of some kind but aim more serious performance... this chip is probably coming out next year.

[aisle9]

Pentium Silver = Atom, no? If this is the case, I'm as inclined to pay $400 for that as I would be to pay $400 for a colonoscopy.

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

as they are no ARM64 based benchmarks for Windows.

There are UWP benchmarks from the Windows Store

• Antutu
• GFXBench
• Relative Benchmark

[captain_to_fire]

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The Snapdragon 1000, is aimed to actually need a heatsink of some kind but aim more serious performance

Just because the SD1000 requires a socket doesn't mean it can't be passively cooled. There are a few 15W TDP laptops with Intel chips that doesn't require a fan. Just look at the Surface Pro with LTE.

[Trixanity]

3 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Pentium Silver = Atom, no? If this is the case, I'm as inclined to pay $400 for that as I would be to pay $400 for a colonoscopy.

Indeed. Silver designation means Atom and Gold means Core.

[GoodBytes]

7 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Pentium Silver = Atom, no? If this is the case, I'm as inclined to pay $400 for that as I would be to pay $400 for a colonoscopy.

No no. Atom is dead. Intel is only producing the latest model to current manufactures that have a contract with them, assuming they still do today (probably not). 

 

[edit]

Sorry, I got confused with Gold. Silver is the latest Atom ever made by Intel, Intel said to have stop working on Atom

[aisle9]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

No no. Atom is dead. Intel is only producing the latest model to current manufactures that have a contract with them, assuming they still do today (probably not). 

 

In name, yes, Atom is dead, but hasn't the architecture been passed more or less as-is to the Pentium Silver to give the moldy toilet of modern computing a nicer name with higher street cred?

[captain_to_fire]

11 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Indeed. Silver designation means Atom and Gold means Core.

In a way since the Pentium Gold G5500 is using the same LGA1151 socket and cheaper than Silver https://ark.intel.com/products/129946/Intel-Pentium-Gold-G5500-Processor-4M-Cache-3_80-GHz

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, aisle9 said:

In name, yes, Atom is dead, but hasn't the architecture been passed more or less as-is to the Pentium Silver to give the moldy toilet of modern computing a nicer name with higher street cred?

Read edit

[aisle9]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Read edit

So are future generations of Pentium Silver going to be using a different architecture?

[GoodBytes]

9 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

There are UWP benchmarks from the Windows Store

• Antutu
• GFXBench
• Relative Benchmark

Those are GPU based benchmark. We need CPU ones. Preferably trusted ones (ie: Not Geekbench) to better compare things.

[Trixanity]

3 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

In name, yes, Atom is dead, but hasn't the architecture been passed more or less as-is to the Pentium Silver to give the moldy toilet of modern computing a nicer name with higher street cred?

The architecture itself is said to be dead with development slowing down and several chip segments featuring Atom being removed. It remains to be seen whether Intel intends to kill it outright or keep it on the backburner for a while. We don't have a clear roadmap for Atom either; if I recall there is nothing there in fact.

2 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

In a way since the Pentium Gold G5500 is using the same LGA1151 socket and cheaper than Silver https://ark.intel.com/products/129946/Intel-Pentium-Gold-G5500-Processor-4M-Cache-3_80-GHz

I don't get your point; particularly in relation to my comment you're quoting.

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

So are future generations of Pentium Silver going to be using a different architecture?

Once Intel figured out 10nm transistor size without getting into problems

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

I don't get your point; particularly in relation to my comment you're quoting.

Oops. nvm. 

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Those are GPU based benchmark. We need CPU ones. Preferably trusted ones (ie: Not Geekbench) to better compare things.

One can hope a UWP Cinebench but I don't think it's happening

[GoodBytes]

21 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

One can hope a UWP Cinebench but I don't think it's happening

You just need ARM64 version of Cinebench

[Christophe Corazza]

If they restrict it as they have with other products it will probably be a bust... and Microsoft doesen't need any more of those!

[Christophe Corazza]

57 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

Would be perfect for the 2D artist who doesn't want to take out a loan for a Wacom Cintiq.

 

I'd pay that extra $10 to be able to use actual software aimed at 2D artists (Clip Studio and Sai).

 

If the target is purely for the education market, which I think it pretty much is, then going with a lower end intel CPU to save on costs works, these things will be in classrooms running 1 or 2 specific apps and do little else probably.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Aren't Intel chips still WAY faster than ARM though?  So it makes perfect sense in that respect.

 

I really wish someone would make a half-decent 2-in-1 at that price that didn't have a garbage LCD.   Surface isn't practical for using on your lap.

Not by much, but a lot faster at running x86 applications.