Android Messages for Web Starting to Roll Out

[Tech Enthusiast]

Feeling sorry for those countries that don't seem to know / use Whatsapp. 

But welcome to 5 years ago i guess.

 

And while i know SMS can reach where internet sometimes can't: I only know a single person actually using sms anymore.

Well, that person and about every one time "enter this 4 digit security code to log in!" - kinda deal.

 

Still waiting for one of the dozen new chat apps to actually do something better than whatsapp does.

[mr moose]

58 minutes ago, Rattenmann said:

Feeling sorry for those countries that don't seem to know / use Whatsapp. 

But welcome to 5 years ago i guess.

 

And while i know SMS can reach where internet sometimes can't: I only know a single person actually using sms anymore.

Well, that person and about every one time "enter this 4 digit security code to log in!" - kinda deal.

 

Still waiting for one of the dozen new chat apps to actually do something better than whatsapp does.

sms is still very big in Australia, it's always there, every phone is compatible, you don't need to create an account, search for friends, download an app or subscribe to anything. it doesn't use mobile data you can send photos and short videos just the same. 

[Trixanity]

11 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

Feeling sorry for those countries that don't seem to know / use Whatsapp. 

But welcome to 5 years ago i guess.

 

And while i know SMS can reach where internet sometimes can't: I only know a single person actually using sms anymore.

Well, that person and about every one time "enter this 4 digit security code to log in!" - kinda deal.

 

Still waiting for one of the dozen new chat apps to actually do something better than whatsapp does.

I feel sorry for those using Whatsapp. It is after all owned by Facebook and everything they touch turn sour pretty quickly.

[DocSwag]

13 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Only carrier phones on T-Mobile seem to work properly with wifi-calling (though might be a custom ROM thing), so I use Google Voice where cellular service isn't available 

For some weird reason wifi calling on t mobile also works with Google phones even if they aren't bought through t mobile. Idk why that's the case but it refuses to work other phones, only Google phones.

[Trixanity]

21 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

For some weird reason wifi calling on t mobile also works with Google phones even if they aren't bought through t mobile. Idk why that's the case but it refuses to work other phones, only Google phones.

It's a software thing. All modern phones support wifi calling but each network uses their own config so each device needs the config for each and every network to have global support. It's basically like having tens if not hundreds of different standards for the same thing.

The Google phones probably have a compatible config for T-Mobile's network out of the box. It usually requires a cooperation between the network and the device manufacturer to make the software compatible. Sometimes phones not supporting a particular network initially get an OTA update to support it. It's stupid as hell. That's the biggest reason for moving to an entirely independent model for communications where the network just carries packets indiscriminately but that would be a mess too because then you'd rely on applications of some kind and that's already problematic because there isn't a standard there either: iMessage, Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger, Hangouts, Telegram, Signal, WeChat, QQ Messenger, Viber, Line, Snapchat, BBM, KakaoTalk, Skype, Hike, Allo, Kik, Zalo - that's just the most popular consumer apps I could find, then there's the smaller or more obscure ones and then there's business-oriented apps such as Slack, Teams and others. Christ, it's bad.

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, Trixanity said:

It's a software thing. All modern phones support wifi calling but each network uses their own config so each device needs the config for each and every network to have global support. It's basically like having tens if not hundreds of different standards for the same thing.

The Google phones probably have a compatible config for T-Mobile's network out of the box. It usually requires a cooperation between the network and the device manufacturer to make the software compatible. Sometimes phones not supporting a particular network initially get an OTA update to support it. It's stupid as hell. That's the biggest reason for moving to an entirely independent model for communications where the network just carries packets indiscriminately but that would be a mess too because then you'd rely on applications of some kind and that's already problematic because there isn't a standard there either: iMessage, Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger, Hangouts, Telegram, Signal, WeChat, QQ Messenger, Viber, Line, Snapchat, BBM, KakaoTalk, Skype, Hike, Allo, Kik, Zalo - that's just the most popular consumer apps I could find, then there's the smaller or more obscure ones and then there's business-oriented apps such as Slack, Teams and others. Christ, it's bad.

It's kind of maddening on the Android side. My Dad uses Facebook Messenger, my sister uses Hangouts, my other sister uses Instagram, I have a friend that uses Signal, and my other friend uses iMessage. Everyone has SMS though (not as though I have a choice with the iMessage users), so that's why I'm still on SMS.

[Tech Enthusiast]

On 20.6.2018 at 3:49 AM, mr moose said:

sms is still very big in Australia, it's always there, every phone is compatible, you don't need to create an account, search for friends, download an app or subscribe to anything. it doesn't use mobile data you can send photos and short videos just the same. 

Well, in germany noone uses sms anymore. Some very few, yes. But those are a real minority (speaking of about 1 in 1000 or even less).

Also photos or short videos count as being a "mms" here, which is like 2 euros per message. At least it was like 10 years ago, last time i checked *cough*.

Also the chance of having internet access is higher then having access to sms around here. Out networks are really, really....really bad compared to other countries.

 

On the flip side: I don't know a single person not having whatsapp on their phone. Seriously not a single one.

Since i have my current phone (about 3 years) i received ONE sms, and that was a reset code for a password.

 

I keep hearing the stories from the US, where everyone seems to use a different messaging app. And i honestly don't understand it. Why don't you guys just move to the biggest / most convenient one and be done with it?

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

Well, in germany noone uses sms anymore. Some very few, yes. But those are a real minority (speaking of about 1 in 1000 or even less).

Also photos or short videos count as being a "mms" here, which is like 2 euros per message. At least it was like 10 years ago, last time i checked *cough*.

Also the chance of having internet access is higher then having access to sms around here. Out networks are really, really....really bad compared to other countries.

 

On the flip side: I don't know a single person not having whatsapp on their phone. Seriously not a single one.

Since i have my current phone (about 3 years) i received ONE sms, and that was a reset code for a password.

 

I keep hearing the stories from the US, where everyone seems to use a different messaging app. And i honestly don't understand it. Why don't you guys just move to the biggest / most convenient one and be done with it?

The real solution, is that all messaging app makes their FULL APIs available to all, so that apps like Trillian can re-exists, so that "1 app to rule them all" can exists.

Trillian was a popular programs on the PC in the old days, where you had all instant messaging protocols, such as: AOL IM, ICQ, MSN, Yahoo IM, Skype, IRC, Google Talk, MySpace, Facebook Messenger, and more, all in one program. All you needed to do, have 1 account for each, or the services you want to use, and all your friends/family, and once setup, you get to use 1 program, from your perspective. So if you have friends, each using a different of service, you had 1 program running on your PC. (Oh an no ads, as the program could remove its own ads, if you bought it, and it was dirt cheap). Trillian was not the only option to do this, they were open source options, but Trillian was the best.

 

 

Sadly, today, IM has greatly diminished in popularity, where many shutdown, and companies wanted to ensure their own ad revenue to close their eco-system down, and disable many or all APIs so that you had to use their own software. And so Trillian is now dead. (well the made their own protocol, and focuses on a businesses aiming to be a Skype for Business competitor)

 

So imagine using some third party app of your choice on your phone and PC, which has ALL or nearly all, instant messaging of today: WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Skype, WeChat, Viber, etc. So for your perspective, you use 1 app, but your list of contacts is a regroupement of everyone using each services.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

Well, in germany noone uses sms anymore. Some very few, yes. But those are a real minority (speaking of about 1 in 1000 or even less).

Also photos or short videos count as being a "mms" here, which is like 2 euros per message. At least it was like 10 years ago, last time i checked *cough*.

Also the chance of having internet access is higher then having access to sms around here. Out networks are really, really....really bad compared to other countries.

 

On the flip side: I don't know a single person not having whatsapp on their phone. Seriously not a single one.

Since i have my current phone (about 3 years) i received ONE sms, and that was a reset code for a password.

A quick google search suggest about 560B txts per day versus 55B whatsapp messages.  Either Germany is incredibility isolated and do their own thing or your observations are a little insulated.

 

2 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

I keep hearing the stories from the US, where everyone seems to use a different messaging app. And i honestly don't understand it. Why don't you guys just move to the biggest / most convenient one and be done with it?

It would appear they do, it's still sms.

[Trixanity]

53 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

The real solution, is that all messaging app makes their FULL APIs available to all, so that apps like Trillian can re-exists, so that "1 app to rule them all" can exists.

Trillian was a popular programs on the PC in the old days, where you had all instant messaging protocols, such as: AOL IM, ICQ, MSN, Yahoo IM, Skype, IRC, Google Talk, MySpace, Facebook Messenger, and more, all in one program. All you needed to do, have 1 account for each, or the services you want to use, and all your friends/family, and once setup, you get to use 1 program, from your perspective. So if you have friends, each using a different of service, you had 1 program running on your PC. (Oh an no ads, as the program could remove its own ads, if you bought it, and it was dirt cheap). Trillian was not the only option to do this, they were open source options, but Trillian was the best.

 

 

Sadly, today, IM has greatly diminished in popularity, where many shutdown, and companies wanted to ensure their own ad revenue to close their eco-system down, and disable many or all APIs so that you had to use their own software. And so Trillian is now dead. (well the made their own protocol, and focuses on a businesses aiming to be a Skype for Business competitor)

 

So imagine using some third party app of your choice on your phone and PC, which has ALL or nearly all, instant messaging of today: WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Skype, WeChat, Viber, etc. So for your perspective, you use 1 app, but your list of contacts is a regroupement of everyone using each services.

Or a simpler solution: a common open messaging protocol with a common open API. So your messaging app of choice can send messages to any messaging app. The same way we have excellent third party apps for social media or that documents can be opened with any app supporting the format. We can even allow that open protocol to be the fallback mechanism so they can continue to monetize and make their proprietary crap that doesn't work with the protocol. And Microsoft can attempt to embrace extend extinguish the fuck out of it as usual.

 

Of course not a single company wants to do that because it would go against their desire to control the market. And we all know some bloke somewhere will make the absolute best client but they'll try to subvert it through proprietary features instead of making their own app work better.

[GoodBytes]

11 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Or a simpler solution: a common open messaging protocol with a common open API. So your messaging app of choice can send messages to any messaging app.

Like, IRC.

The problem:

 

 

11 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Of course not a single company wants to do that because it would go against their desire to control the market. And we all know some bloke somewhere will make the absolute best client but they'll try to subvert it through proprietary features instead of making their own app work better.

Not really, it comes down to money. Back in the day, when IM companies started to close off their APIs, was because they were loosing a lot of ad revenues, and some of these third party did indeed have quality issues and bugs, such as not actually sending a message, and people started to blame the service and not the third party app itself. Also, they loose the assurance of their privacy policy and security (example: some IM service can offer a guaranty that messages are encrypted end-to-end, but the third party app uses it own servers and doesn't encrypt anything and messages are stored in a poorly secured database)

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Like, IRC.

The problem:

 

 

Not really, it comes down to money. Back in the day, when IM companies started to close off their APIs, was because they were loosing a lot of ad revenues, and some of these third party did indeed have quality issues and bugs, such as not actually sending a message, and people started to blame the service and not the third party app itself. Also, they loose the assurance of their privacy policy and security (example: some IM service can offer a guaranty that messages are encrypted end-to-end, but the third party app uses it own servers and doesn't encrypt anything and messages are stored in a poorly secured database)

Control = power = money.

 

And an open protocol would not be another standard in this case but the lowest common denominator. Just like SMS is now except it'd be modern and would be network agnostic. 

[Xtenchen]

On 6/19/2018 at 9:24 AM, themctipers said:

who uses sms

especially if you have access to a desktop / internet access

ppl who dont want to pull out a laptop and find wifi while their on the go

[Zodiark1593]

You know, theoretically, if I'm going to an area where I know I have no cell service (my gym), I could bring along my Windows tablet (already connected to my phone), and leave the phone at home, connect to the gym wifi, and be able to send messages using my regular number.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

You know, theoretically, if I'm going to an area where I know I have no cell service (my gym), I could bring along my Windows tablet (already connected to my phone), and leave the phone at home, connect to the gym wifi, and be able to send messages using my regular number.

Sounds like a fair bet of messing around.  Are people really afraid of not being contactable this much?

[Guest]

On 6/20/2018 at 1:49 PM, mr moose said:

sms is still very big in Australia, it's always there, every phone is compatible, you don't need to create an account, search for friends, download an app or subscribe to anything. it doesn't use mobile data you can send photos and short videos just the same. 

Mobile coverage and services rocks in Australia. It's like $40 a month with Amysim for like 15GB data and unlimited calling and texts. I get like 2GB here for that. 4G coverage is absolutely excellent and customer service is brilliant. 

 

As far as SMS's go, everyone can get it and the message gets there in a very quick time. I like the way Apple does it, and it should be an industry standard, where the phone tries to send an iMessage, and if there is no coverage or it doesn't get delivered in a certain timeframe (a few seconds), then it sends it via SMS. iMessage is just one of the things, like FaceTime (with Wifi calling and Wifi video calling etc) that really just make great sense, and you can send/receive from any device. It's the integration of the services that really takes the cake. 

 

I don't know why anyone would complain that Android gets these features. Definitely an industry standard. 

 

2 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

You know, theoretically, if I'm going to an area where I know I have no cell service (my gym), I could bring along my Windows tablet (already connected to my phone), and leave the phone at home, connect to the gym wifi, and be able to send messages using my regular number.

On a side note, why bring your tablet to the gym and not your phone? It's really cool and convenient but using a tablet seems impractical. 

[asus killer]

it could be useful for someone stuck in 2009, time travelers or old people

 

but i still have friends that send me SMS and use it as a chat.  

 

[Zodiark1593]

24 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

On a side note, why bring your tablet to the gym and not your phone? It's really cool and convenient but using a tablet seems impractical. 

Just a random thought, really. Though sometimes I do bring it if I need to use (abuse) the wifi for something, because no home internet. The thing stows away quite neatly in my bag, so it isn't a particular burden. This was how I downloaded Skyrim for my home desktop, actually. 

 

 

35 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Sounds like a fair bet of messing around.  Are people really afraid of not being contactable this much?

At one point last year, this was a pretty legitimate concern for myself (for pretty serious matters). Not so much now though. More a passing thought of "Where the heck was this feature when I could have used it!?" 

[AlTech]

On 6/19/2018 at 3:58 PM, The Benjamins said:

Not really, Google is working on being a thing called Chat that has a lot of the features of other messaging APPs besides encryption due to legal reasons.

 

Chat is a SMS backend standard. (RCS)

 

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/19/17252486/google-android-messages-chat-rcs-anil-sabharwal-imessage-texting

Actually, the reason they're not going for Encryption is cos the standard Google and others are working on is meant to be open whereas for there to be E2E encryption, where would you store the encrypted data or the encryption keys?

[TroubleKlef]

Wonder if it has end to end encryption. 

[DocSwag]

5 hours ago, TroubleKlef said:

Wonder if it has end to end encryption. 

Between the computer and your phone or? SMS I believe doesn't have any encryption so messages between you and the recipient will not be encrypted but idk about between your computer and your phone.