Apple faces class action lawsuit over failing Macbook keyboards

[79wjd]

38 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Well, neither did Apple keyboards break all that often until the new design showed up.  Apple has a patent for a version of this design that's resistant to dust/crumbs, it's just a question of how practical it is to implement that design in MacBooks going forward (or to switch to another design altogether).

The 2017 models have already seemingly improved the issue, but more than that, the total number of repairs has declined with the new Macs while the number of sales almost certainly was higher than the 2015 model. The keyboards might not be as durable, but as a whole, the laptop itself does appear to be quite a bit better. 

 

2014 -- 2120 service events w/ 118 keyboard

2015 -- 1904 service events w/ 114 keyboard

2016 -- 1402 service events w/ 165 keyboard

2017 -- 1161 service events w/ 94 keyboard

[DrMacintosh]

4 hours ago, ScratchCat said:

If this is not planned obsolescence what is?

Errr, if it was planned obsolescence the next gen of keyabords would not be less prone to failure. 

 

It was a design flaw. 

 

Planned obsolescence:

These keybaords can fail randomly at any time or not fail at all. It really is luck and there is no guarantee that every keyboard will fail at some point. 

 

Also do not forget that macOS has an on screen keyboard so if a key does fail, as long as it isn’t something like the spacebar, you can probably survive until you get a whole new machine. Not trying to justify the bad keyboard design, but if you don’t want to pay $700 that is a option. 

 

Also a keyboard cover will prevent the keys from failing. But keyboard covers slow down my WPM. 

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Also do not forget that macOS has an on screen keyboard so if a key does fail, as long as it isn’t something like the spacebar, you can probably survive until you get a whole new machine. Not trying to justify the bad keyboard design, but if you don’t want to pay $700 that is a option. 

That is absolutely not a reasonable option....

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That is absolutely not a reasonable option....

It seems reasonable to me. It is a workaround. 

 

Autocorrect can fix most errors in which a word is missing a key. 

 

My 2016 13" MacBook Pro for example has an issue where the x key sometimes double taps whenever I type it. A solution is not either avoid words with the letter x or to just delete the second x after it appears in a word. If they key did not work at all I could type whatever I was going to say and add the letter back in. 

 

Sure it's not convenient at all, but it saves you $700. 

 

(note, my x key did not double tap this whole time) 

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Or any of those times, idk, it has a mind of its own. 

 

[Zodiark1593]

16 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

It seems reasonable to me. It is a workaround. 

 

Autocorrect can fix most errors in which a word is missing a key. 

 

My 2016 13" MacBook Pro for example has an issue where the x key sometimes double taps whenever I type it. A solution is not either avoid words with the letter x or to just delete the second x after it appears in a word. If they key did not work at all I could type whatever I was going to say and add the letter back in. 

 

Sure it's not convenient at all, but it saves you $700. 

 

(note, my x key did not double tap this whole time) 

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Or any of those times, idk, it has a mind of its own. 

 

The keyboard not breaking in the first place would be an excellent way of saving $700 too.

 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

The keyboard not breaking in the first place would be an excellent way of saving $700 too.

 

Yeah, but there is no point in saying that since nothing can be done about the fact that they do fail from time to time. 

[laminutederire]

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

Well, neither did Apple keyboards break all that often until the new design showed up.  Apple has a patent for a version of this design that's resistant to dust/crumbs, it's just a question of how practical it is to implement that design in MacBooks going forward (or to switch to another design altogether).

So? At the price they come in, there shouldn't be any flaws like that. Especially when there barely isn't been a widespread issue on MacBooks since what... 2009 or something?

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

So? At the price they come in, there shouldn't be any flaws like that. Especially when there barely isn't been a widespread issue on MacBooks since what... 2009 or something?

That is such an absurd argument. There are flaws in every product at every price range. 

 

Just because it cost a lot of money does not mean it is perfect. 

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

So? At the price they come in, there shouldn't be any flaws like that. Especially when there barely isn't been a widespread issue on MacBooks since what... 2009 or something?

Again, while the keyboard definitely does have a defect (it's impossible to eliminate all defects -- especially when making design changes), the overall laptop appears to less prone to issues. 

 

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

The 2017 models have already seemingly improved the issue, but more than that, the total number of repairs has declined with the new Macs while the number of sales almost certainly was higher than the 2015 model. The keyboards might not be as durable, but as a whole, the laptop itself does appear to be quite a bit better. 

 

2014 -- 2120 service events w/ 118 keyboard

2015 -- 1904 service events w/ 114 keyboard

2016 -- 1402 service events w/ 165 keyboard

2017 -- 1161 service events w/ 94 keyboard

 

[Commodus]

3 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

So? At the price they come in, there shouldn't be any flaws like that. Especially when there barely isn't been a widespread issue on MacBooks since what... 2009 or something?

I agree, I'm just saying that it's not a question of flicking a switch and eliminating the problem overnight.

[Sauron]

16 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Theyll eventually win.

They'll eventually lose, but when they will it won't matter anymore - they'll end up having to offer free service and nobody will still have their broken 2015 macbook to fix.

[Sauron]

16 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Again, while the keyboard definitely does have a defect (it's impossible to eliminate all defects -- especially when making design changes)

While design flaws can happen from time to time, the problem here is that apple refuses to recall the products or at least offer free service.

[Hunter259]

6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Lololol. Louis Rossmann totally called it .

 

It's a shame that Apple is the only company able to make macOS laptops . They totally should do a macOS certification programme to allow other OEMs to make decent macOS devices which aren't shit.

You mean what nearly killed Apple in the 90's? They used to do it and the companies that made them were completely garbage which resulted in an even worse look for Apple. I love my hackintosh but MacOS should stay on the Mac.

[Cheezdoodlez]

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

Well, neither did Apple keyboards break all that often until the new design showed up.  Apple has a patent for a version of this design that's resistant to dust/crumbs, it's just a question of how practical it is to implement that design in MacBooks going forward (or to switch to another design altogether).

Ah.. In a perfect world apple would make this improved design compatible with current models and then exchange all bad keyboards for free. 

 

It might be only a dream but Apple have created exchange programs before.. I keep praying that they will do the same for the macbook keyboards..

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, Cheezdoodlez said:

Ah.. In a perfect world apple would make this improved design compatible with current models and then exchange all bad keyboards for free. 

 

It might be only a dream but Apple have created exchange programs before.. I keep praying that they will do the same for the macbook keyboards..

It's possible they would -- assuming it's compatible. I forgot where I read it, but they're using the 2017 keyboard when repairing the 2016 Macs (the 2017 keyboard is supposedly an improvement).

[DrMacintosh]

6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

It's a shame that Apple is the only company able to make macOS laptops . They totally should do a macOS certification programme to allow other OEMs to make decent macOS devices which aren't shit.

The last time macOS was on non-Macs, the experience was trash. 

 

macOS is good because of the machines that are running it being the only machines that are running it. Even if there was a program that you had to meet requirements for to get macOS licensing, it would still be a big liability on Apple's end.  

[DrMacintosh]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's possible they would -- assuming it's compatible. I forgot where I read it, but they're using the 2017 keyboard when repairing the 2016 Macs (the 2017 keyboard is supposedly an improvement).

The changes to the 2017 models are probably just the switch design, the ribbon cable is probably exactly the same and so are the mounting points to the chassis. 

[Kamjam21xx]

17 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The last time macOS was on non-Macs, the experience was trash. 

 

macOS is good because of the machines that are running it being the only machines that are running it. Even if there was a program that you had to meet requirements for to get macOS licensing, it would still be a big liability on Apple's end.  

Apples just an oddball company, great for normal pcs but for serious stuff they arent flexible and have a lit of hindrances.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Kamjam21xx said:

but for serious stuff they arent flexible and have a lit of hindrances.

Depends on what you mean. 

 

Macs really only struggle in large corporate environments under some use cases. 

[Syntaxvgm]

15 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Can't replace a switch without replacing the whole keyboard which is riveted to the top chassis. 

 

I think the best that will come of this is Apple preemptively starting a repair program at a reduced cost or even free if Apple Wants to settle. Might be cheaper than fighting and then having to pay out. 

Most laptops new keyboards cost from 10-30$. I used to charge 20-40$ labor in most cases. Super easy. Done within 15 minutes. 700 fucking dollars? That's a symptom of a laptop that's purposely made not to be repairable.  Even then I doubt that cost, even though I haven't really done laptops in a few years. Probably since first couple gens of retina MBPs that I've touched a macbook. 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Syntaxvgm said:

That's a symptom of a laptop that's purposely made not to be repairable.

Oh, did you think the new MacBook Pros were designed to be repairable? LOL

[Syntaxvgm]

7 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Oh, did you think the new MacBook Pros were designed to be repairable? LOL

I mean 700$ tho? What the fuck. I used to charge way more for macbooks, but still a keyboard, with all the "lose one of these and you're screwed" screws, were not hard to replace, just a tad more delicate. 

Even if there's glue now (and I bet there is with fucking useless touchbar on my macbook) 700$ is not what this service costs even with top price labor (doubt that). This just sounds like planned obsolescence backfiring because the actual keyboards have a higher failure rate than expected. By planned obsolescence, I don't mean made to break, I mean made to discourage keeping a laptop when it breaks, even with first party service. This and the new imac pro not having parts made avaible to apple repair shops shows apple does not want to even service their own fucking products. 

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Syntaxvgm said:

I used to charge way more for macbooks, but still a keyboard, with all the "lose one of these and you're screwed" screws, were not hard to replace. 

Even if there's glue now (and I bet there is with fucking useless touchbar on my macbook) 700$ is not what this service costs even with top paid labor.

Apple uses rivets for the keyboard. 

 

You have to replace the entire top case to replace the keyboard. 

[Syntaxvgm]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Apple uses rivets for the keyboard. 

 

You have to replace the entire top case to replace the keyboard. 

Rivets now? Fucking seriously? Wow, glad I dont repair this shit anymore.

That's on purpose for sure. 700$ sounds like "you want to keep a laptop instead of buying a new one? We'll fucking charge you the margin we make on a new laptop." Kinda like comcast charging basically what cable TV costs to get around bandwidth caps designed to destroy cable competition. 

I can remove rivets and replace them, but it would take so much time that I'd only do it on my own stuff to save money not for customers. 

[Kamjam21xx]

25 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Depends on what you mean. 

 

Macs really only struggle in large corporate environments under some use cases. 

Just the fact that its not capable in one area or another, makes it a complete no go for me. It would be a waste of money for me to buy one. 

 

Cad, motion vfx, video editing, gaming, etc. Theres more, buy you get the just ya?