Apple faces class action lawsuit over failing Macbook keyboards

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Rivets now? Fucking seriously? Wow, glad I dont repair this shit anymore.

That's on purpose for sure. 700$ sounds like "you want to keep a laptop instead of buying a new one? We'll fucking charge you the margin we make on a new laptop." Kinda like comcast charging basically what cable TV costs to get around bandwidth caps designed to destroy cable competition. 

I can remove rivets and replace them, but it would take so much time that I'd only do it on my own stuff to save money not for customers. 

Leave it to Apple to over complicate the attachments of a part that is most vulnerable to damage caused by the user. 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Kamjam21xx said:

Cad, motion vfx, video editing, gaming, etc. Theres more, buy you get the just ya?

CAD work can be done on the iMac Pros which are actually pretty decent machines all around with Xeons and Vega Graphics. These Machines are the placeholder product until the new MacPro comes out.

 

Actually Macs running FinalCut Pro are significantly better at editing video than a PC with significantly better specs running something like Adobe Premiere or DaVinci Resolve. 

 

And I agree with you on Gaming. Their Laptops are certainly not designed for it, but thanks to the 13" models running Iris graphics, light gaming is possible and the 15" models have dGPUs that work well in Windows if your games are not available on macOS. Their 5K iMacs can actually be pretty competent thanks to be configurable up to a Radeon Pro 580 and all but the base model 4K iMac not having a dGPU. 

 

 

[Syntaxvgm]

Just now, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Leave it to Apple to over complicate the attachments of a part that is most vulnerable to damage caused by the user. 

you know the last fucking keyboard I dealt with that had rivets? The model M. 

[Syntaxvgm]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

CAD work can be done on the iMac Pros which are actually pretty decent machines all around with Xeons and Vega Graphics. These Machines are the placeholder product until the new MacPro comes out.

 

Actually Macs running FinalCut Pro are significantly better at editing video than a PC with significantly better specs running something like Adobe Premiere or DaVinci Resolve. 

 

And I agree with you on Gaming. Their Laptops are certainly not designed for it, but thanks to the 13" models running Iris graphics, light gaming is possible and the 15" models have dGPUs that work well in Windows if your games are not available on macOS. Their 5K iMacs can actually be pretty competent thanks to be configurable up to a Radeon Pro 580 and all but the base model 4K iMac not having a dGPU. 

 

 

that's funny, because to my memory working with macs as workstations in the past as soon as I run out of memory, the program just disappears, even in the middle of a render. Almost all mac pros for video production I ran into out in the wild (pre-trashcan) ran windows. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

you know the last fucking keyboard I dealt with that had rivets? The model M. 

Though would rivets be cheaper than using screws?

[Syntaxvgm]

1 minute ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Though would rivets be cheaper than using screws?

fast, more automatable, so probably. 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

that's funny, because to my memory working with macs as workstations in the past as soon as I run out of memory, the program just disappears, even in the middle of a render.

That is not how macOS behaves. 

 

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Almost all mac pros for video production I ran into out in the wild (pre-trashcan) ran windows. 

I don't have any experience with PowerMac G5 style MacPros, but those machines probably would still have rendered video better in macOS. FinalCut Pro blows all other video editors out of the water. 

[Syntaxvgm]

8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That is not how macOS behaves. 

 

 

Sure did. Don't know why. Running out of memory instead of giving the normal dialog on some programs actually causes them to appear to have crashed (non responsive I assume), and mac just killed them if that happened. Windows gave me the option to do what I wanted, like wait. 

 

11 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

FinalCut Pro blows all other video editors out of the water. 

lol

[Kamjam21xx]

17 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

CAD work can be done on the iMac Pros which are actually pretty decent machines all around with Xeons and Vega Graphics. These Machines are the placeholder product until the new MacPro comes out.

 

Actually Macs running FinalCut Pro are significantly better at editing video than a PC with significantly better specs running something like Adobe Premiere or DaVinci Resolve. 

 

And I agree with you on Gaming. Their Laptops are certainly not designed for it, but thanks to the 13" models running Iris graphics, light gaming is possible and the 15" models have dGPUs that work well in Windows if your games are not available on macOS. Their 5K iMacs can actually be pretty competent thanks to be configurable up to a Radeon Pro 580 and all but the base model 4K iMac not having a dGPU. 

 

 

They have shit compatability, so other than a few high end softwares... you cant be flexible. 

 

Just isnt possible.

[laminutederire]

2 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

That is such an absurd argument. There are flaws in every product at every price range. 

 

Just because it cost a lot of money does not mean it is perfect. 

It's not absurd considering the plethora of issues they have on their lines throughout the years.

Secondly, we're not talking about laptops failing ten years in. We're talking reasonably many people who have their keyboard fail on them in weeks or months.

No a costly product isn't bound to be perfect, but the failure rates and design flaws they constantly have is just baffling and unacceptable. It is all the more unacceptable that they market their product as reliable, so they better be reliable.

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

9 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Sure did. Don't know why. Running out of memory instead of giving the normal dialog on some programs actually causes them to appear to have crashed (non responsive I assume), and mac just killed them if that happened.

Again, that is not have macOS behaves. 

 

9 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

lol

Have you seen how fast FinalCut renders video? 

 

FinalCut is better unless you are working with the more obscure features of Premiere. 

[DrMacintosh]

7 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

They have shit compatability, so other than a few high end softwares... you cant be flexible. 

Considering that every Mac can run Windows, they actually have the most compatibility.......

[Kamjam21xx]

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Considering that every Mac can run Windows, they actually have the most compatibility.......

Final cut and premiere arent the best, then youre also stuck with an outdated, unupgradable, overpriced machine.

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Final cut and premiere arent the best, then youre also stuck with an outdated, unupgradable, overpriced machine.

Ok

[79wjd]

29 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That is not how macOS behaves. 

 

I don't have any experience with PowerMac G5 style MacPros, but those machines probably would still have rendered video better in macOS. FinalCut Pro blows all other video editors out of the water. 

FCP is fast because of Quicksync. No Mac Pro had quicksync. 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

FCP is fast because of Quicksync. No Mac Pro had quicksync. 

We actually don't even know if QuickSync is why FinalCut is faster, its just rumors that are yet to be confirmed. 

[79wjd]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

We actually don't even know if QuickSync is why FinalCut is faster, its just rumors that are yet to be confirmed. 

If it's not Quicksync then why is a Macbook faster than a Mac Pro?

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

If it's not Quicksync then why is a Macbook faster than a Mac Pro?

idk It could be that the MacPro doesn't use all of its hardware when rendering in FinalCut

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

idk It could be that the MacPro doesn't use all of its hardware when rendering in FinalCut

Right, so it's optimized so well by Apple (since it doesn't use Quicksync), and yet for some reason Apple didn't think to optimize it for the Mac Pro......

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Right, so it's optimized so well by Apple (since it doesn't use Quicksync), and yet for some reason Apple didn't think to optimize it for the Mac Pro......

The FinalCut Dev team is separate from the Mac Hardware dev team. 

 

I also never said that it does not use quick sync, I just said it has not been confirmed that that is why FinalCut is so much better at rendering video. 

[79wjd]

11 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The FinalCut Dev team is separate from the Mac Hardware dev team. 

 

I also never said that it does not use quick sync, I just said it has not been confirmed that that is why FinalCut is so much better at rendering video. 

It's either quicksync or amazing optimization.....except that it's ridiculous to think that the amazing optimization would only apply to the Macbooks/iMacs/anything with integrated graphics, but wouldn't apply to anything without integrated graphics like a Mac Pro. Why would they go out of their way to optimize it so heavily for some hardware but then just say fuck it for the rest of the hardware that's marketed towards professionals? 

[Syntaxvgm]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

Again, that is not have macOS behaves. 

 

Have you seen how fast FinalCut renders video? 

FinalCut is better unless you are working with the more obscure features of Premiere. 

finalcut is seriously lacking feature wise. With video production, you use whatever has the features you need, pick the one with your favorite workflow, then pick the fastest one, that order usually. Most people use multiple video editors, but I've really never seen final cut as one of them. 

 

 

Also, yes that is. It's not about the memory running out, it's about the handling of non-responsive programs. To my memory, the reasoning is on windows when something freezes and won't close, it's frustrating to non-power users who don't know what to do with it. It appears that osx solves the problem without having to force quit. The other factor I think may have been involved is mechanical hard drives, with everything going on the response time was probably in the seconds (or not at all) with all the page files being moved around. 

I had this happen with Illustrator (exporting extreme resolutions), photoshop (typically easy to predict and prevent, or save as the layers are mostly the cause), maya and blender both while rendering, I heard cinema 4d but have never used it on mac. I had premier problems too, but I'd put it in the Adobe is trash category, I don't think it was related. 

 

Now the thing is they would typically become non-responsive at the same workload (or sooner) in windows, but it wouldn't just close it. 7 (maybe vista too) and later just greys it out and give you the option to kill it or wait. These programs didn't really crash, windows just thinks they did. 

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

finalcut is seriously lacking feature wise. With video production, you use whatever has the features you need, pick the one with your favorite workflow, then pick the fastest one, that order usually. Most people use multiple video editors, but I've really never seen final cut as one of them. 

 

 

Also, yes that is. It's not about the memory running out, it's about the handling of non-responsive programs. To my memory, the reasoning is on windows when something freezes and won't close, it's frustrating to non-power users who don't know what to do with it. It appears that osx solves the problem without having to force quit. The other factor I think may have been involved is mechanical hard drives, with everything going on the response time was probably in the seconds (or not at all) with all the page files being moved around. 

I had this happen with Illustrator (exporting extreme resolutions), photoshop (typically easy to predict and prevent, or save as the layers are mostly the cause), maya and blender both while rendering, I heard cinema 4d but have never used it on mac. 

 

Now the thing is they would typically become non-responsive at the same workload (or sooner) in windows, but it wouldn't just close it. 7 (maybe vista too) and later just greys it out and give you the option to kill it or wait. These programs didn't really crash, windows just thinks they did. 

I've ran out of memory before and nothing would close on me, it would just lock up and become unresponsive. 

 

This also applies for memory: https://www.wikihow.com/Un-Pause-an-Application-(Mac-OS-X)

[Syntaxvgm]

4 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I've ran out of memory before and nothing would close on me, it would just lock up and become unresponsive. 

 

This also applies for memory: https://www.wikihow.com/Un-Pause-an-Application-(Mac-OS-X)

Like I said, I don't think it was just the memory causing it, I think it was page files (if that's what you call it, all of these programs had own built in scratch disk function) on the mechanical hard drive. I've yet to have it happen on my new MBP with an SSD (but I don't use it for much tbh), but had it happen plenty with iMacs with mechanical hard drives. Just not using all of the memory was the only way to prevent it. 

I think the other way to prevent it would be using another drive as the scratch disk for the programs that let you pick the location. I know adobe does. Pretty sure the other ones I listed you can too, just never tried. 

Normally when you just run out of memory, it would just pop up the force quit window I think with "your system has run out of memory" message.

[Carclis]

I suppose it's reasonable to assume that by the end of the year we'll see an extended warranty, totalling three years so that people who bought them at launch will have almost no window to make the claim.