Front collision damage Help

[Leathal]

Alright so we are looking at a 2010 ford focus FWD. It was in a frontal collision.
The car will turn on, however it wont move. I will pin the image I currently have. What are some of the things that could be wrong here. What are some of your guesses on a repair estimate. Currently the estimate given by a mechanic was 5000-6000$. Which is the price of buying a new one. ********. Lets stop this foul business practice of preying on ignorance. I will get more information on the vehicle later and post it as well. If you have questions that will help better identify the problem shoot away.  Thank you Internet. I know this isn't a car forum. But help comes in all shapes and sizes. This community has helped me before so lets see what we can do.  

[QuestionxThree]

Just total it and get a new one 

[ObilvionNizer]

3 minutes ago, QuestionxThree said:

Just total it and get a new one 

I dont think they have bought the car yet 

10 minutes ago, Leathal said:

Alright so we are looking at a 2010 ford focus

If indeed you have not bought the car. I would advise looking into another on that does not have or has minor damage to it. 

[TacticlTwinkie]

I work at a body shop as a painter, so let me see whats up based on the picture:

1. Front bumper may be able to be repaired, may need replacement. Can't tell from the photo. Either way it is getting painted.
2. Hood is fucked - replace
3. Front left fender is fucked - replace
4. Front right fender is unknown, cant see it.
5. Front left headlight is pushed in, likely broke its mounts - replace
6. Front right headlight appears to be ok. Could be wrong though. Can't tell.
7. Grill is unknown, can't see it well enough. I will assume its fine.
8. Front left apron (structural part of the car under the hood and fender) potentially needs repair.
   1. If this needs repair, then a few things need to be removed under the hood to gain access for a proper repair and paint job.
9. Front right apron may be ok. Again, can't tell.
10. The core support area may be damaged. Would need to see under the hood to see the extent.
11. Radiator may or may not need to be replaced (you guessed it, I cant tell from the photo.)
12. Front left door needs to be de-trimmed so that it can be blended (take off mirror, belt molding, weather strips, door handle etc).
13. Front right fender needs to be blended if it is ok, but may need repair (again, I can not see it in this picture.)
    1. If the front right fender needs to be repaired, the front right door may require blending. It depends on the size and location of said repair. If it needs replacing, then the door definitely needs to be blended.

So we have a few panels that need replacing/repair, at least 5 panels that need painting, disassembly labor time, repair labor time, paint labor time, paint material costs, and replacement parts costs. $5k-6k sounds about right to me. That very well may total the car (not too sure on its value off the top of my head). Get a second quote if you can.

 

I am not sure where you are located, but at least here in California, by law, the insurance company cannot force you to go to one of their "preferred" or recommended shops. As the owner of the car, you can take it any shop you want, even if it is outside of their "network." Don't let them push you to a body shop you are not comfortable with.

[3 Lions]

I'm at college doing a level 2 motor vehicle maintenance course so I may be able help you...

 

1) If has been pushed back far enough the front subframe may have split,cracked or both (advise new front subframe instead of welding and straightening)  

2) It's hard to tell from the image but you may need to replace radiator, intercooler (if it has one) and the AC condenser. 

3) If it has no drive then the gearbox may have come away from the engine or the driveshafts may have come off the gearbox (would like a high res image of the underside of the car on a ramp). 

4) All of the front body work needs replacing. 

5) Both of the headlights need replacing.  

 

All in the repair work may cost more than the actual car is worth so I'd probably look at another one that hasn't been trashed. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by LinusTechTipsFanFromDarlo

[ObilvionNizer]

What condition is the chassis in? if the chassis is twisted or broke then walk away. 

[WallacEngineering]

7 hours ago, Leathal said:

Alright so we are looking at a 2010 ford focus FWD. It was in a frontal collision...

Dont even think about it, its a stupid move.

 

The standard focus is barely worth $5000 at that age with NO damage at all. So unless you are getting the car for free, just walk away.

 

It looks like its a 3rd party based on the picture that puts the car in the field, however I wont assume, so...

 

If it is for sale at used dealership, demand that the car be restored to operating condition, then consider the purchase based on the new price.

 

Lets put it this way: I recently helped my friend pick out a 2007 Focus SE FWD 4-Door Sedan that was in a rear-end collision and was REPAIRED before sale. Barely 100K on the clock and we got it for $1800. The car was for sale from the shop that had repaired the damage so we knew it was a legit repair job. Every single thing on his new car works: all the lights, power windows, locks, A/C, heat, no check engine light, only an SRS airbag light that needs to be reset after the accident.

[bcredeur97]

I wouldn't buy this car just because of the possible frame damage. unless the parts are worth a lot and you'd look into parting it out.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Hood + fenders + Radiator mounts + radiator + AC condenser + any number of reservoirs for brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc. + possible damage to frame rails 

 

These are just estimates from someone who doesn't know much about cars, but repair costs include the hours it's worked on so I'd say it's totalled. 

[Leathal]

Thank you for the help fellow tech tippers. No the car is owned by a family friend and a repair shop gave that number. I don't know much about cars,  but I do know a little bit, and looking up parts prices I was a bit sceptical, as the car repair industry is known for scamming. I appreciate the input,  and time taken by you fine humans. 

[TacticlTwinkie]

Just now, Leathal said:

Thank you for the help fellow tech tippers. No the car is owned by a family friend and a repair shop gave that number. I don't know much about cars,  but I do know a little bit, and looking up parts prices I was a bit sceptical, as the car repair industry is known for scamming. I appreciate the input,  and time taken by you fine humans. 

Is your friend going through his/her insurance? Or are they paying out of pocket?

[Leathal]

Pay out of pocket. 

 

[TacticlTwinkie]

1 minute ago, Leathal said:

Pay out of pocket. 

 

Well, as someone in the industry and as someone who wants you to get a fair, honest price, $5k-ish is not a ripoff. The parts themselves may not cost nearly that much, but you are paying for labor time as well, and paint material costs. The paint shop is where things start getting expensive. With automotive paint, you get what you pay for. And if it a good shop that wants to do a proper repair, they will use quality paint and hire an experienced painter. Also shops with higher labor rates tend to get the best technicians. In the body shop industry, we get paid a percentage of the labor rate multiplied by how many repair hours are on the estimate, not a salary or hourly wage. So if a shop down the street has a labor rate $5 hire than another, I'm taking my skills and experience to that one.

[bimmerman]

$5k almost seems low for that amount of work. That car is done, it is not worth repairing. Insurance should total it. If they are going out of pocket, tell them to spend the repair estimate on another car.

 

Part prices are only one part of it-- you still need to account for the mechanic / painter / body man's time at ~$100-150/hr depending on area and shop and skill level.

[Unimportant]

10 hours ago, TacticlTwinkie said:

I work at a body shop as a painter, so let me see whats up based on the picture:

<snip>

I've always wondered, if some of the safety structures are damaged, like crumple zones, is that even repairable (properly, so it's as safe as the designers intended)?

 

[bimmerman]

2 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

I've always wondered, if some of the safety structures are damaged, like crumple zones, is that even repairable (properly, so it's as safe as the designers intended)?

 

Physically and dimensionally, yes.

 

Structurally, I highly doubt it. That's one reason cars can get a salvage title. I wouldn't trust any car that has had a crumple zone repair to perform as designed in a future accident.

 

That said-- if they cut and weld in a new crumple structure, I would have zero qualms about it. That's the proper way to do it, and it will perform as intended. My statement above is if they hammer and pull the original structure back into shape.

[TacticlTwinkie]

5 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

I've always wondered, if some of the safety structures are damaged, like crumple zones, is that even repairable (properly, so it's as safe as the designers intended)?

 

No, if a crumple zone has crumpled, that part needs to be replaced. For example, that hood in the picture is designed to "taco" like that to absorb impact. Same goes for more structural parts, like frame rails. Sometimes they bolt on, other times they require the old one being cut off and a new one to be welded on. If that is the case, the engine and all under-hood parts may need to be removed for proper access.

[Real_PhillBert]

That car is toast. There is zero point in repairing that. 

 

For a frame of reference, this is $2984.84 worth of damage:

 

No insurance co will touch that because it makes zero sense to repair it. The Focus is a unibody car, so with a hit like that, the structure IS damaged. Let alone the fact that the car wont move... which could be a whole pile of different problems after an accident such as this. Tell your friend to turn the car into insurance, collect the payout the totaled car and buy a new car. 

[Unimportant]

6 minutes ago, TacticlTwinkie said:

 other times they require the old one being cut off and a new one to be welded on.

I guess that's where things get tricky. I've little experience with mechanical engineering but I'm guessing it's hard to get the weld to be exactly the required strength. Too weak and it breaks prematurely, too strong and the rails might be pushed into the car. (Just thinking out loud). Best to just scrap such cases then, Thx.

[TacticlTwinkie]

Just now, Unimportant said:

I guess that's where things get tricky. I've little experience with mechanical engineering but I'm guessing it's hard to get the weld to be exactly the required strength. Too weak and it breaks prematurely, too strong and the rails might be pushed into the car. (Just thinking out loud)

Welding is a skill that all good body repair technicians should have. The thickness of the metal, type of steel, type of weld the manufacturer requires on that location, all affect how the panel is welded. At most shops, there is an automatic spot welding machine, where the technician can input the make, model, and year of the car, and the machine will tune to exactly the settings the particular car needs. That ensures that every weld will be perfect. Of course, not every weld can be done by a tool like this, so a good technitian will still be able to do a proper weld by hand.

 

here is what those look machines look like:

[dalekphalm]

@Leathal as others have pointed out, $5-$6K for that kind of damage is totally reasonable (if not actually a little low).

 

You have to think about the amount of time a bodyshop will spend fixing it, and how much it costs to pay for those people.

 

I had a deer hit my car - smoked the front right-side of the hood, rolled down the right side of the car. $6K damage.

Spoiler

 

Why didn't your family member just go through insurance? The car is a write off most likely. Call insurance company, report the accident, collect the payout, buy a new car.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

@Leathal as others have pointed out, $5-$6K for that kind of damage is totally reasonable (if not actually a little low).

 

You have to think about the amount of time a bodyshop will spend fixing it, and how much it costs to pay for those people.

 

I had a deer hit my car - smoked the front right-side of the hood, rolled down the right side of the car. $6K damage.

 

Why didn't your family member just go through insurance? The car is a write off most likely. Call insurance company, report the accident, collect the payout, buy a new car.

My neighbour backed into the driver side door of my Civic and that was also a couple thousand bucks. Whole door panel had to be backordered, painted, with trim and electronics transferred from the original. It's a lot of labor. 

 

@Leathal but yea, generally as with most repairs in the automotive world (including routine maintenance items), it's not the parts that are going to cost the most, it's the labor. Ever wondered why it costs so much to change your oil at the dealership?

[TacticlTwinkie]

4 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

@Leathal but yea, generally as with most repairs in the automotive world (including routine maintenance items), it's not the parts that are going to cost the most, it's the labor. Ever wondered why it costs so much to change your oil at the dealership?

Exactly. That's why it costs you around $30-$40 to do a full synthetic oil change in your driveway vs.  $100+ at Jiffy Lube.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 minutes ago, TacticlTwinkie said:

Exactly. That's why it costs you around $30-$40 to do a full synthetic oil change in your driveway vs.  $100+ at Jiffy Lube.

Oh man don't even get me started on those places. Comes in for a simple oil change, comes out with a coolant flush, brake fluid flash, and transmission oil change added on.

[Canada EH]

The car is a write off and I hope the people the car hit do not have whiplash because thats an easy payout for them.

If you can get the parts out of a junkyard do it.

Just hope that the frame aint fucked nor is the engine fucked nor any computer shit fucked.