Can I return my and brothers PC ?

[SilkyDistress]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:00 PM, knightslugger said:

Call them up, ask for a sales rep.

 

It sounds as if you are WAY behind the IT security ball and you need some heavy hitting hardware protection. I think you better hire a firm to handle your needs.

 

...that is unless you do this all as a hobby, at which point, why are we still talking...

Its my job and the problem is, our company has already enough issues with their Xeon servers and they are replacing them and moving VM's and data to it. I can only request but it wil be probably rejected like many times and also calling is not an option cause that is -$10 for international calls.

 

On 1/5/2018 at 2:00 PM, knightslugger said:

It sounds as if you are WAY behind the IT security ball and you need some heavy hitting hardware protection.

 

Heck yeah I am behind, I just slap ESET NOD32 with license and don't give a crap about anything.

[KenjiUmino]

40 minutes ago, SilkyDistress said:

I cannot wait for patch beacuse I very sensitive and private data that I have use to every single day.

if your work is really as critical as you make it sound and you can't afford to lose data or have downtime, you better have backups.

 

not just backups of your sensitive data but also backup hardware so you can be up and running again as fast as possible - do you have that ? 

[knightslugger]

1 minute ago, SilkyDistress said:

Heck yeah I am behind, I just slap ESET NOD32 with license and don't give a crap about anything.

leave this to your IT security people.

 

keep a back up and leave it air-gapped: no internet, no network.

[SilkyDistress]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:05 PM, KenjiUmino said:

if your work is really as critical as you make it sound and you can't afford to lose data or have downtime, you better have backups.

 

not just backups of your sensitive data but also backup hardware so you can be up and running again as fast as possible - do you have that ? 

Well, server is gonna arrive for 2 months and until that I cannot wait. And my company is just removing Fujitsu Xeon servers and ordering EPYC. Idk I am gonna probably get backup Ryzen Threadripper server.

 

On 1/5/2018 at 2:05 PM, knightslugger said:

leave this to your IT security people.

 

keep a back up and leave it air-gapped: no internet, no network.

Well network is out for sure, this weekend cause of server replacement, I am worried cause my work pc its similar to this one, only difference is locked i7 7700 and Q270 chipset.

EDIT : Potato english said wrong thing.

[knightslugger]

3 minutes ago, SilkyDistress said:

Well network is out for sure, this weekend cause of server replacement, I am worried about my home PC cause its similar to this one, only difference is locked i7 7700 and Q270 chipset.

EDIT : messed up its my home PC

Your sig doesn't say it's a locked 7700...

[SilkyDistress]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:13 PM, knightslugger said:

Your sig doesn't say it's a locked 7700...

I messed up my home is i7 7700k, z170k and 24 gb of ram and gtx 970.

My work rig is i7 7700, q270 mobo (idk cause everything is restricted especially going in control panel), 32 gb of ram and quadro m4000

 

On 1/5/2018 at 2:13 PM, knightslugger said:

Your sig doesn't say it's a locked 7700...

My potato english sry

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, SilkyDistress said:

Is it possiable through court ? We live in Croatia

Return it? No. The rig isn't malfunctioning, nor it has a fault, per se. The cause for return is not justified and they won't accept it, no normal retailer would. 

The consumer market was hit with such performance drop that you won't notice it, if we're to believe trusted sources. Now, server stuff does get hit a lot harder. I updated my laptop and PC, no issues whatsoever. But as I see it, it is the normal windows update issue, I don't think it's this patch specific.

[SilkyDistress]

2 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Return it? No. The rig isn't malfunctioning, nor it has a fault, per se. The cause for return is not justified and they won't accept it, no normal retailer would. 

Also, you probably have nothing to worry about. The consumer market was hit with such performance drop that you won't notice it, if we're to believe trusted sources. I updated my laptop and PC, no issues whatsoever. But as I see it, it is the normal windows update issue, I don't think it's this patch specific.

Ok, thanks. I'll update my laptop once again and Windows is gonna get upgrade to Windows 10 with some tweaks (on my home rig). Just to note I am using Thinkpad W510

[Bouzoo]

Just now, SilkyDistress said:

Ok, thanks. I'll update my laptop once again and Windows is gonna get upgrade to Windows 10 with some tweaks (on my home rig). Just to note I am using Thinkpad W510

I am using an N550JK (with 4700HQ) 90% of the time. No issues after the update. While we're at it, what shop are we talking about?

[SilkyDistress]

14 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

I am using an N550JK (with 4700HQ) 90% of the time. No issues after the update. While we're at it, what shop are we talking about?

HGShop, Links and Instar Informatika

[Bouzoo]

9 minutes ago, SilkyDistress said:

HGShop, Links and Instar Informatika

Had to replace my GFs MBP in HGSpot not even 2 months ago. While their "web reclamation" were utter crap, all of their shop (Utrine) employees were more than great about everything and they solved it. I had luck with stuff in Links and Instar, nothing broke (yet), so can't comment about them.

[Stefan Payne]

On 1/5/2018 at 1:12 PM, SilkyDistress said:

So after I found out about Intel Security issue is it possiable to return CPU and mobo cause my rig was  bought in December, 2017 and my brothers rig was bought in April, 2017.

Can I return the CPU and mobo and swap it for Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 ?

 

My PC Specs :
i7 7700k

ASUS Z170-K

24 gb of ram (2x 8 gb 2400 mhz and 2x 4 gb 2400 mhz)

GTX 970

 

My brother's PC Specs:

i5 6600k

Gigabyte Z270 Gaming K3

16 gb of ram (2x 8 gb 2400 mhz)

GTX 960

The one bought in december is worth a try. You can try to argue that Intel knew about this stuff since june.

The other one, no I don't think so.

 

On 1/5/2018 at 2:19 PM, Bouzoo said:

Return it? No. The rig isn't malfunctioning, nor it has a fault, per se. The cause for return is not justified and they won't accept it, no normal retailer would. 

The consumer market was hit with such performance drop that you won't notice it, if we're to believe trusted sources. Now, server stuff does get hit a lot harder. I updated my laptop and PC, no issues whatsoever. But as I see it, it is the normal windows update issue, I don't think it's this patch specific.

If the law in croatia is something similar like the one in Germany, I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

 

You have to read up on this stuff and the law, but if you know what you are doing and the law, it might be possible. At least for the newer one.

The one from April I'm not sure and most dealers won't do it either.

With the newer one I'd try it tbh.

 

Because we have here something like a reverse who has to prove that something is wrong. In the first six months the dealer has to prove that something went wrong. After that, you have to prove that it was wrong in the beginning.

 

But as I said, you have to read up on the law and the issue. 

For the latter one you can argue that Intel knew about the issue...

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Because we have here something like a reverse who has to prove that something is wrong. In the first six months the dealer has to prove that something went wrong. After that, you have to prove that it was wrong in the beginning.

 

But as I said, you have to read up on the law and the issue. 

For the latter one you can argue that Intel knew about the issue...

You could argue that Intel knew, but then again, since we're talking consumer components here, all the tests show few % difference post patch that you would never be able to prove that it was due to the patch. Iirc TimeSpy even show few % more. I'm more than positive it would never pass. 

[Stefan Payne]

1 minute ago, Bouzoo said:

You could argue that Intel knew, but then again, since we're talking consumer components here, all the tests show few % difference post patch that you would never be able to prove that it was due to the patch. Iirc TimeSpy even show few % more. I'm more than positive it would never pass. 

No

You can argue that your PC was unsafe and thus faulty.

With an AMD Ryzen that wouldn't have been the case.

[SilkyDistress]

2 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

You could argue that Intel knew, but then again, since we're talking consumer components here, all the tests show few % difference post patch that you would never be able to prove that it was due to the patch. Iirc TimeSpy even show few % more. I'm more than positive it would never pass. 

I mean can I argue that my credit card info and my data like OIB (only croatians know about that) was compromised.

[Bouzoo]

23 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

No

You can argue that your PC was unsafe and thus faulty.

With an AMD Ryzen that wouldn't have been the case.

The thing is, there are 2 flaws. Meltdown is Intel and ARM, and Spectre is for both and AMD as well. Meltdown is the worse of the two, but Spectre affects AMD as well. So if you would end up returning it due to the fault (by some miracle), the laws here are that you'd have to swap it for something else (you getting your money back does not happen unless in extreme cases, and this is not even close, in my anecdotal experience), so even then the argument would not stand due to AMD being affected as well. 

 

23 hours ago, SilkyDistress said:

I mean can I argue that my credit card info and my data like OIB (only croatians know about that) was compromised.

Unless you have evidence I'm afraid no. They always require legitimate evidence, and to be frank, imo you'd lose more time than it's worth it, and most probably you won't be able to return it in the end, even by going to 1st and after that 2nd degree complaint to competent authority.

[SilkyDistress]

6 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Unless you have evidence I'm afraid no. They always require legitimate evidence, and to be frank, imo you'd lose more time than it's worth it, and most probably you won't be able to return it in the end, even by going to 1st and after that 2nd degree complaint to competent authority.

Well then I am just gonna wait for my EPYC server and pray that hackers don't get into my PC

[Bouzoo]

1 minute ago, SilkyDistress said:

Well then I am just gonna wait for my EPYC server and pray that hackers don't get into my PC

Whichever system you get, you should patch it and should have no issues. I just reckon you had bad luck with your laptop. THen again, chances of someone getting into your PC in this country are pretty slim.

[Stefan Payne]

23 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

but Spectre affects AMD as well. 

That's a lie that Intel put out in the World.

 

Lets see what AMD has to say:

https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

 

 

They say that they are NOT AFFECTED

 

Why do you say they are?!

Do you believe the bullshit Intel put out in the World more than the things AMD said theirselves?!

Intel is lying through their teeth to not look as bad as this shit really is.

 

23 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Whichever system you get, you should patch it and should have no issues. 

That's wrong.

Because Spectre TWO is not fixable right now. It has to be fixed in Hardware.

 

Or deactivate the Branch Prediction.

[Bouzoo]

Sorry for the slow response, very long day at work.

 

On 1/6/2018 at 9:02 AM, Stefan Payne said:

Why do you say they are?!

Because I believe trustworthy sources like ArsTechnica and Anandtech. They (Ars) say:

Quote

The array bounds problem has, however, been demonstrated on AMD systems, and for that, AMD is suggesting a very different solution from that of Intel: specifically, operating system patches. It's not clear what these might be

After all, your AMD link says it's Resolved by software. Furthermore it says Negligible performance impact expected which means something is affecting it, albeit by a very low margin. What is there to resolve if nothing is affected?

 

On 1/6/2018 at 9:04 AM, Stefan Payne said:

That's wrong.

Because Spectre TWO is not fixable right now. It has to be fixed in Hardware.

 

Or deactivate the Branch Prediction.

You are right on that and I stand corrected, however, it is still to be seen if it will affect AMD. Their words are:

Quote

Differences in AMD architecture mean there is a near zero risk of exploitation of this variant. Vulnerability to Variant 2 has not been demonstrated on AMD processors to date.

This leaves many questions opened. And it means they can be affected. Naturally, it may mean nothing, but it doesn't mean it's impossible. A week ago no one thought something like this might be possible yet here we are. Long story short, AMD is at win here over Intel, and I do really hope you're right, just to be clear.

 

But we're way off topic now.