Apple face 2 class action suits in USA over slowing down iPhones

[Master Disaster]

6 minutes ago, vetali said:

oh boy, can't wait for my $10 in the mail 5 years from now.

 

class action lawsuits are a scam in themselves.

The only people who make from them are the lawyers.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Except the iPhone X where THE ONLY way in is through the screen which is glued to the chassis and must be heated with a heat gun to be removed.

 

Yep, you literally have to heat gun the second most expensive component in the device to expose the logic board and battery.

Pointing a heat gun at the screen is probably one of the user interactions that is least likely to damage the screen. Don't point the heat gun at the exact same spot on the screen for an hour from close range, and it'll be fine. 

[ItsMitch]

13 minutes ago, vetali said:

oh boy, can't wait for my $10 in the mail 5 years from now.

 

class action lawsuits are a scam in themselves.

Well, you go ahead and hire a lawyer or two and go ahead and file a lawsuit vs Apple Inc, I wish you the best of luck getting out of it not broke and not bankrupt. CAL take a lot longer than normal because the attorneys are representing a group of people. For the scam part, lol. 

[Matu20]

Planned obsolescence, those engineers are smart fellow, almost feels like it makes sense.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, SC2Mitch said:

Well, you go ahead and hire a lawyer or two and go ahead and file a lawsuit vs Apple Inc, I wish you the best of luck getting out of it not broke and not bankrupt. CAL take a lot longer than normal because the attorneys are representing a group of people. For the scam part, lol. 

The problem with class action lawsuits is that the lawyers are really the only ones that benefit from it -- and that's the reason many consider them "scams". 

[Master Disaster]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Pointing a heat gun at the screen is probably one of the user interactions that is least likely to damage the screen. Don't point the heat gun at the exact same spot on the screen for an hour from close range, and it'll be fine. 

iPhone X has an AMOLED screen, I thought heat didn't play well with those or am I mistaken?

[vetali]

3 minutes ago, SC2Mitch said:

Well, you go ahead and hire a lawyer or two and go ahead and file a lawsuit vs Apple Inc, I wish you the best of luck getting out of it not broke and not bankrupt. CAL take a lot longer than normal because the attorneys are representing a group of people. For the scam part, lol. 

not really my point.

 

12 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The only people who make from them are the lawyers.

 

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The problem with class action lawsuits is that the lawyers are really the only ones that benefit from it -- and that's the reason many consider them "scams". 

^^^

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

iPhone X has an AMOLED screen, I thought heat didn't play well with those or am I mistaken?

AMOLEDs can take reasonable heat just fine -- You'd have to be pretty stupid for heat from a heat gun to cause a problem.  

 

 

 

 

[Misanthrope]

1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

Iphone never had a user replaceable battery.....

 

I dont get why everyone think every device should be self repairable. First of all, replacing an iphone battery is easy as fuck and can be done in 15mins. People cant just watch a 5 min video instead of pissing and moaning after they look at a phone and see it has no removable back. 

 

A uni-body design is not just to screw over customers but contributes to overall look, durability and water/dustproofing. AFAIK the S5 was the only one that had it all with a removable battery. 

 

Saying a device that is unrepairable (or harder to repair) is anti consumerism is retarded. A lot of devices are irreparable altogether and people are fine with it, but when it comes to phones people lose their shit.

Replacing a battery isn't a repair: We have just concluded that batteries are degradable over time and will naturally need to be replaced. Other phones for years had user replaceable batteries to address this very real concern.

 

Apple has to live with this design flaw and crippling a product is now something for the courts, and not Apple enthusiasts in a forum to decide.

[System Error Message]

the best action is to upgrade to samsung. If the majority of users went to samsung rather than waste time and money with legal, it would be a big slap in the face for apple.

 

Though i'd suggest getting one of the android phones with user replaceable batteries, micro SD and sufficient IO that are still water proof.

[mynameisjuan]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Modern TVs are just generally not repairable, at least not by the now defunct electrical repair and technician workshops which is why my father works in IT and not repairing electrical goods anymore. CRT TVs were easy to work with and repair and everything was common and easy to diagnose and replace parts, now TVs are all integrated circuits and proprietary firmware that controls everything so unless you have the right tools and parts repair isn't possible even if you were willing to pay someone to repair it.

 

It's rather amusing that one of the big technological advances in the modern industrial movement was 'replaceable parts' or 'interchangeable parts' but basically the first thing we did was make everything as cheap as possible and made the parts basically locked together once assembled.

 

Very much true. Everything being integrated makes troubleshooting a blown part to dissecting and identifying the issue a nightmare which professionals like Louis Rossmann do. Building smaller and smaller things while simultaneously adding more to them will result in locked together assemblies. This is not a bad thing though. 

 

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Except the iPhone X where THE ONLY way in is through the screen which is glued to the chassis and must be heated with a heat gun to be removed.

 

Yep, you literally have to heat gun the second most expensive component in the device to expose the logic board and battery.

 

And for the record no, people don't lose their shit when manufacturers make things difficult to repair, people lose their shit when manufacturers make conscious decisions to make every single component as close to impossible to repair as they can for no reason other than planned obsolescence. Apple deliberately make things nigh on impossible to repair and deliberately don't release any repair schematics and documentation because they dont want their devices to be repaired. I mean why allow customers to repair old devices when they can sell them a new device.

First is I wasnt talking about the X. This situation doesnt pertain to it as of yet. This is falling into the 5, SE, 6, possibly 7. Phones that had time for their battery to degrade. But I cant deny that the X is a bitch to repair, because it just is. With all glass, all screen....not much room for mount point and more reason for adhesive. 

 

Also you think that businesses are really going to be wasting time deliberately tying to make it impossible to repair? The most extent that is done is like a proprietary screw patterns, not "haha lets add liquid cement over all the screws on the inside to make sure they can unscrew them...*insert evil laugh*"

 

Also no business is required to release documentation or schematics to repair their stuff. I am not defending just apple, any company. All I see is pissing and moaning arguments. If you bought the product is not up to them to tell you how to fix it. They designed and built it and you bought it, that is your object. 

[Tenelia]

I see a lot of talk online about companies and their engineers designing things for planned obsolescence... Do you guys even have any way to prove it in a court of law?

 

It's one thing to say that components are designed to fit in a super-slim form factor, but quite another thing to accuse a company of having the intention to design for planned obsolescence. Just because you think it's so, doesn't mean they had that intention. Furthermore, if you want the industry to produce more user-replaceable products, then just purchase products that are that way. As a project coordinator though, it's simply horrid business if you expect any major corporation to provide more than 3 years of product support; especially for non-flagships.

[mynameisjuan]

59 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Replacing a battery isn't a repair: We have just concluded that batteries are degradable over time and will naturally need to be replaced. Other phones for years had user replaceable batteries to address this very real concern.

 

Apple has to live with this design flaw and crippling a product is now something for the courts, and not Apple enthusiasts in a forum to decide.

Yeah older androids had replaceable batterys and they were damn nice. But a plastic removable cover and no waterproofing (S5 did have both) and not appealing to sleek unibody designs like the S8 which are beautiful and more ergonomic. 

 

People are shopping for phones are for fucking sure not making a decision based on repairability. They are looking for a nice phone. Millions have been making the current design of phones for years by choosing with their wallets. Dont like it, dont buy it. But this has not been a new issue and neither have repairing phones, yet they are getting sued by the people supporting the design year after year. 

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

I think it might be a case of more stress being put on the 12v battery in electric cars since they don't have an alternator so power is always being drained and recharged in to the battery to a higher degree than in a combustion engine vehicle. Just a total guess without looking in to it at all but it's the same reason why double conversion UPSs require battery replacement every 2-4 years compared to online and standby UPSs which can often get away with 5 years depending on battery quality.

 

Edit:

Would be nice if my car could actually monitor the health of the battery properly and warn me before it's dead. Nothing is more annoying than going to start the car on a holiday before you are about to drive long distance and the car won't start and road side service is very busy because it's a holiday and you can't be late because you've booked tickets to something.

Aside fron standby power the 12v battery shouldnt be used that much while the ignition is on. Unless EV's are using a retarded implementation....

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

 

Very much true. Everything being integrated makes troubleshooting a blown part to dissecting and identifying the issue a nightmare which professionals like Louis Rossmann do. Building smaller and smaller things while simultaneously adding more to them will result in locked together assemblies. This is not a bad thing though. 

 

First is I wasnt talking about the X. This situation doesnt pertain to it as of yet. This is falling into the 5, SE, 6, possibly 7. Phones that had time for their battery to degrade. But I cant deny that the X is a bitch to repair, because it just is. With all glass, all screen....not much room for mount point and more reason for adhesive. 

 

Also you think that businesses are really going to be wasting time deliberately tying to make it impossible to repair? The most extent that is done is like a proprietary screw patterns, not "haha lets add liquid cement over all the screws on the inside to make sure they can unscrew them...*insert evil laugh*"

 

Also no business is required to release documentation or schematics to repair their stuff. I am not defending just apple, any company. All I see is pissing and moaning arguments. If you bought the product is not up to them to tell you how to fix it. They designed and built it and you bought it, that is your object. 

1) OK, fair point. I'll concede that one.

 

2) Yes of course I do, in fact I can prove they do. Plenty of companies have gotten into trouble for doing exactly that, I mean the phrase anti consumer business practices wouldn't exist if nobody did it. Since Cook took over from Jobs every iteration of Apple products has become less repairable, they deliberately obscure things, remove features that are required to do repairs and make everything they possibly can as hard as possible to repair, to the point they don't even repair their own products anymore. Think about it this way, designing an item that is hard to repair costs them nothing, they're already paying for the design anyway and they control exactly how their own devices are designed however if it means they can sell more products by making things hard to repair well, then it's cha ching all the way to the bank. Remember that at this point Apple's policy of planned obsolescence is widely held to be true by a lot of people in the hardware repair business.

 

3) Wel that's the USA being largely dominated by consumerism and by how much power the corporation's have in the USA. Here in Europe, plus also in Australia too, companies are required by law to ensure their products last a reasonable amount of time after purchase and must also provide repairs to faulty devices or make available the means for someone to repair things. I remember hearing this year that the USA courts are looking at some kind of "Right To Repair" bill to become law. You actually made my point for me in your last sentence, it is my object and no, they don't have to tell me how to repair it (assuming it's a US registered company) but they also don't have the right to make it as hard as possible to repair either and nor can they tell me what to do with it once I have bought it from them.

[Zodiark1593]

   I'm not really upset in any way of Apple slowing the phones themselves due to the underperforming batteries. The big thing that irks me is that Apple tends to use small batteries that would necessitate the above step in the first place. Battery size directly influences both capacity and output. Even worn down, a bigger battery would deliver more current than an equally worn smaller battery, not to mention that a larger capacity could very well reduce the charge cycles a user would put it through.

 

   The sub-2k mAh battery in the iPhone 8 is honestly pretty laughable.

[Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Yeah older androids had replaceable batterys and they were damn nice. But a plastic removable cover and no waterproofing (S5 did have both) and not appealing to sleek unibody designs like the S8 which are beautiful and more ergonomic. 

 

People are shopping for phones are for fucking sure not making a decision based on repairability. They are looking for a nice phone. Millions have been making the current design of phones for years by choosing with their wallets. Dont like it, dont buy it. But this has not been a new issue and neither have repairing phones, yet they are getting sued by the people supporting the design year after year. 

But you were just saying how the iphone never had removable battery, years before they started dust and water proofing so that's not the reason.

 

Which is it?

 

Also this isn't a "don't like it, don't buy it" problem is a problem with people who already bought it and get their product crippled by apple. This is indefensible you're just bringing irrelevant side points to distract from the main issue: There is NO EXCUSE to cripple performance, none. Not at all. So stop it.

[Mykie]

*deleted*

[Master Disaster]

6 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Yeah older androids had replaceable batterys and they were damn nice. But a plastic removable cover and no waterproofing (S5 did have both) and not appealing to sleek unibody designs like the S8 which are beautiful and more ergonomic. 

 

People are shopping for phones are for fucking sure not making a decision based on repairability. They are looking for a nice phone. Millions have been making the current design of phones for years by choosing with their wallets. Dont like it, dont buy it. But this has not been a new issue and neither have repairing phones, yet they are getting sued by the people supporting the design year after year. 

You forgot the most important factor, numbers. Apple go to great length to market their products as the fastest available and are very quick to throw numbers around pointing this out.

 

Then 2 years later they go and throttle that device meaning your phone is 100% arbitrarily running slower than it should and slower than what was advertised when you bought the product from them.

 

That's flat out illegal in some countries and is anti consumer no matter where you live. Could you imagine if Intel used microcode updates to throttle older chips or if car manufacturers released OTAs that removed 50hp from your car? There would rightly be uproar yet Apple do exactly that and people still defend them and are OK  with it.

[mvitkun]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Could you imagine if Intel used microcode updates to throttle older chips or if car manufacturers released OTAs that removed 50hp from your car? There would rightly be uproar yet Apple do exactly that and people still defend them and are OK  with it.

You might want to watch this

 

I think a more appropriate comparison would be if Windows, macOS, and/or Linux monitored the rails of your power supply and once they noted that the rails dipped below a certain range your computer would ping a server which would then send out some sort of mandatory firmware update (or something) provided by Intel, Nvidia, and AMD which would lower your CPU and GPU base and boost frequencies to a level that was sustainable without BSOD.

 

You would receive no notification of this nor would there would be any way to undo this other than replacing your power supply....which you would have no reason to believe you need to do since you've received no notification from your OS and have had no stability issues.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

. Could you imagine if Intel used microcode updates to throttle older chips

 

They basically did that with their compiler to hamstring AMD CPU's.   There was an uproar and only two types of people defended Intel,  those who genuinely  didn't understand the intricacies of the issue and the fanboy's.

 

 

[Jito463]

13 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

but the most likely outcome is a flat "give em 10 bucks and a pack of ******* peanuts" type of settlement

Funny story, but I recently got a letter in the mail saying that I had been included in a class action suit against AT&T for overcharging on taxes and fees.  In it was a check with my share of the settlement.  Such a windfall has never befell another human being before or since.  I got a whopping $0.06 out of that settlement!

 

Yes, that's 6 cents, 6 pennies, 6 coppers, 6¢, 6/100th of a dollar (I can't think of any other ways to say it).  I'm sure they spent 10 times as much to print, process and mail the check.  In fact, I wager my bank will spend more to process the check than the actual check is worth.  I'm thinking of taking it to my old bank before I close out my account, heh.

[leadeater]

8 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Aside fron standby power the 12v battery shouldnt be used that much while the ignition is on. Unless EV's are using a retarded implementation....

No idea, not looked in to it. Could also just be a case of the Tesla being overly cautious about 12v battery condition. With EV's being so new I wouldn't be surprised if there were some rather nonsensical design choices being made when people are using traditional design thinking.

[DrMacintosh]

What’s the goal of these lawsuits? What’s Apple going to do? All you’re going to be able to do is make Apple settle and or push an update to stop throttling your iPhone and allow it to just shut off. 

 

But I’m sure the lawsuit is for the good of the consumer.....

4 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Then 2 years later they go and throttle that device meaning your phone is 100% arbitrarily running slower

Oh sure let’s go and disregard reality of the situation for the sake of your rhetoric. 

5 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

There is NO EXCUSE to cripple performance

Yes there is, if your PC could not sustain a certain clock speed after two years would you not downclock it? 

 

Or would you keep running an unstable clock speed so you “can stick it to the man?”

12 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

The problem is that Apple didn't disclosed it

And why should they? I guarantee their UELA lets them do this without having to notify you at all. 

12 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I thought heat didn't play well with those or am I mistaken?

Maybe if you took a flame directly to the glass you might have a problem, but you aren’t so it won’t. 

[Kobathor]

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yes there is, if your PC could not sustain a certain clock speed after two years would you not downclock it? 

 

Or would you keep running an unstable clock speed so you “can stick it to the man?”

I feel like Apple should chill with the crazy clocking of their CPUs in the first place just to get the best Geekbench scores. Just a bit slower and their CPUs would deteriorate slower, their battery life would be better, battery cell life would increase, etc.

 

Also, the problem isn't that the CPU couldn't sustain the clock speed. The battery couldn't handle the power draw. If they didn't run their CPUs so fast that it kills the battery in two years or less this wouldn't be a problem.